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  1. #76
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    In order for one to read the trade I propose correctly, the deal should read like this:

    Bogdan Bogdanovic for Wes Matthews + D.J. Wilson + DDV + a 1st + a 2nd

    and then:

    Nemanja Bjelica for Ilyasova + a 2nd...

    But because Wes Matthews can't be traded until before Christmas and the Bucks would need Bogdanovic from the begining of the season in order to start him and replace what they would otherwise miss from last season's Brogdon's roll in the roster, I had to move Matthews later and add him with moving Ilyasova... Note that the salary matching works in both cases, because Ilyasova carries MLE with his contract... Therefore I had to make the proposal, looking like this:

    Stage 1: Bucks receive Bogdan Bogdanovic, Kings receive Donte Divincenzo, D.J. Wilson + a 1st (no 15-18) & a 2nd from Pacers (no 45-48)...

    Stage 2: Bucks receive Nemanja Bjelica, Kings receive Erzan Ilyasova, Wes Matthews + another 2nd (again from Pacers).

    ...while in reality the proposal is like a said before.

    Also note that Ilyasova + a 2nd for Bjelica should be tempting for the Kings as it is, because Ilyasova fits much better than Bjelica the Kings team chemistry when coming from bench in order to play PF after they landed Barnes, Ariza and Dedmond and also both Ilyasova and Bjelica are on exactly the same salary and same contract (20/21 season not guaranteed on both) which suggests that Bjelica isn't included in the Kings future plans, but only serves as a temporary solution.

  2. #77
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    Whats up with the broken record trades? You cut and pasted the same or close to the same trade idea here multiple times and the free agent thread.


  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by MILLERHIGHLIFE View Post
    Whats up with the broken record trades? You cut and pasted the same or close to the same trade idea here multiple times and the free agent thread.

    "Close to the same", or answering your denials (which you always have) can't be done unless if one breaks a deal into pieces so that you can understand the reasoning behind it...

    Never the less, I hope you really understand now that this proposal is pretty feasible, but mainly that the Bucks have to find a (real) replacement for Brogdon's abscence in the starting roster and add a high minutes SF/PF combo so that they can pick from where they ended last season...

    Common sense isn't always easy to explain with some people, I'm afraid...

    Sooo... here we again:

    The Bucks go to the Kings and say:

    "We offer you Matthews to come from the bench for you instead of Bogdanovic and to compensate for your loss we are prepared to add two assets on rookie contracts on combo guard Divincenzo and CF/PF/sbCF Wilson, which supplement well the rest of your youth, + we throw in a 1st and a 2nd of mid range ranking so that you can add more assets of your choice"... "Additionally, we want to trade Ilyasova for Bjelica and we are prepared to throw another 2nd into this"... "But because Matthews can't be traded until mid-Dec, we'll have to split the deal into two parts and have the fist part now and we finish it on December... agree?"

    I say that Divac would "jump off his chair"...

    What do you say after all the answers I've replied to your previous arguments?

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckalis View Post
    "Close to the same", or answering your denials (which you always have) can't be done unless if one breaks a deal into pieces so that you can understand the reasoning behind it...

    Never the less, I hope you really understand now that this proposal is pretty feasible, but mainly that the Bucks have to find a (real) replacement for Brogdon's abscence in the starting roster and add a high minutes SF/PF combo so that they can pick from where they ended last season...

    Common sense isn't always easy to explain with some people, I'm afraid...

    Sooo... here we again:

    The Bucks go to the Kings and say:

    "We offer you Matthews to come from the bench for you instead of Bogdanovic and to compensate for your loss we are prepared to add two assets on rookie contracts on combo guard Divincenzo and CF/PF/sbCF Wilson, which supplement well the rest of your youth, + we throw in a 1st and a 2nd of mid range ranking so that you can add more assets of your choice"... "Additionally, we want to trade Ilyasova for Bjelica and we are prepared to throw another 2nd into this"... "But because Matthews can't be traded until mid-Dec, we'll have to split the deal into two parts and have the fist part now and we finish it on December... agree?"

    I say that Divac would "jump off his chair"...

    What do you say after all the answers I've replied to your previous arguments?
    Low ball offers is all you got. Our bench scraps have little to no value. Like your old Beal offers last season. Yeesh. Your valuing Matthews like he's still young and playing for the Blazers yet. Then your lame saying "well we didn't know we were signing Korver" but now we did. "So now Matthews is on the trade block". I highly doubt that. First off Korver isn't a SG. Matthews can play SG and SF. So there's that. DDV is up in the air. Brown vanished. We need Matthews. Also you always have 2 or 3 stage multi team and what not besides many moving parts. Some of your trades have us deal 4 guys for 2. Then Kings probably have two waive two others guys that don't want to, to begin with. Then your gonna pull off some other crazy **** having a 3rd or 4th team and becomes a 20 player trade.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by MILLERHIGHLIFE View Post
    Low ball offers is all you got. Our bench scraps have little to no value. Like your old Beal offers last season. Yeesh. Your valuing Matthews like he's still young and playing for the Blazers yet. Then your lame saying "well we didn't know we were signing Korver" but now we did. "So now Matthews is on the trade block". I highly doubt that. First off Korver isn't a SG. Matthews can play SG and SF. So there's that. DDV is up in the air. Brown vanished. We need Matthews. Also you always have 2 or 3 stage multi team and what not besides many moving parts. Some of your trades have us deal 4 guys for 2. Then Kings probably have two waive two others guys that don't want to, to begin with. Then your gonna pull off some other crazy **** having a 3rd or 4th team and becomes a 20 player trade.
    Is it me that is overvaluing assets, or is it you that undervalues them? Sure it's you... Both DDV and Wilson will be valued up to their draft ranking value on a trade... Brown is anything but "vanished" unless you're dreaming... he is only a two season player that continuously shows significant improvement the more he plays and was selected to start 5 games in these past playoffs in the place of Brogdon...

    The Bucks only did 3-team deals last season (or turned 2-team deals on 3-team ones).

    There is no problem for the Kings to waive two players... They have that many of non guaranteed contracts on insignificant players they keep for exactly such a case...

    Matthews we did sign only to add some shooting... After we signed Korver, we don't need him anymore... We have Connaughton, Brown, Hill, DDV, Middleton and even Thanasis that can handle the 2 if we slice Korver on the floor into SF in order to drain some 3s...

    Anything else?

    Now... explain to me why you don't answer the simple question that I'm asking for more than 10 posts now?

    Are we better than than last season after we lost Brogdon and Mirotic or are we a step under?

    Do we have to make back what we lost first and keep upgrading further thereafter or not?

    We didn't have DDV available during the playoffs, we didn't have Matthews, we didn't use Wilson, we don't need Ilyasova after we've landed Rolo and Bender to back up Brolo, therefore all you can argue about is that DDV (you say nothing on Wilson's value) will be considered as "trash" in a deal... and you base it on what? An injury that might prove to be "an unfortunate incident" that has happened on thousands of players who had a brilliant career thereafter...

    Do you have any proof that DDV is injury prone? Won't the team that will consider him on a possible trade have him medically examined? Doesn't every team that puts a player on the trade block have to supply the approved by the NBA medical history in detail?

    Stop all that trash and negativity about your own team for a change... We have to (at least) make back what we lost and that's it... We are not the Bucks of three or five years ago anymore... We now are a contending team that is here to stay for many seasons to come and to do that, we must progress all the time... Stuff this up in your brain instead and stop all this "Trade Brogdon for Okobo" or "trade Brown for "Mikey mouse"" nonsense you post all the time... But above all, stop undervaluing our roster that is among the very best in the league and surely the deepest one!

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckalis View Post
    Is it me that is overvaluing assets, or is it you that undervalues them? Sure it's you... Both DDV and Wilson will be valued up to their draft ranking value on a trade... Brown is anything but "vanished" unless you're dreaming... he is only a two season player that continuously shows significant improvement the more he plays and was selected to start 5 games in these past playoffs in the place of Brogdon...

    The Bucks only did 3-team deals last season (or turned 2-team deals on 3-team ones).

    There is no problem for the Kings to waive two players... They have that many of non guaranteed contracts on insignificant players they keep for exactly such a case...

    Matthews we did sign only to add some shooting... After we signed Korver, we don't need him anymore... We have Connaughton, Brown, Hill, DDV, Middleton and even Thanasis that can handle the 2 if we slice Korver on the floor into SF in order to drain some 3s...

    Anything else?

    Now... explain to me why you don't answer the simple question that I'm asking for more than 10 posts now?

    Are we better than than last season after we lost Brogdon and Mirotic or are we a step under?

    Do we have to make back what we lost first and keep upgrading further thereafter or not?

    We didn't have DDV available during the playoffs, we didn't have Matthews, we didn't use Wilson, we don't need Ilyasova after we've landed Rolo and Bender to back up Brolo, therefore all you can argue about is that DDV (you say nothing on Wilson's value) will be considered as "trash" in a deal... and you base it on what? An injury that might prove to be "an unfortunate incident" that has happened on thousands of players who had a brilliant career thereafter...

    Do you have any proof that DDV is injury prone? Won't the team that will consider him on a possible trade have him medically examined? Doesn't every team that puts a player on the trade block have to supply the approved by the NBA medical history in detail?

    Stop all that trash and negativity about your own team for a change... We have to (at least) make back what we lost and that's it... We are not the Bucks of three or five years ago anymore... We now are a contending team that is here to stay for many seasons to come and to do that, we must progress all the time... Stuff this up in your brain instead and stop all this "Trade Brogdon for Okobo" or "trade Brown for "Mikey mouse"" nonsense you post all the time... But above all, stop undervaluing our roster that is among the very best in the league and surely the deepest one!
    Well Maker was top 10. Look where that got us. Injured rental Mirotic. Even though the early trade we thought we were getting that other scrub, until it turned into 3 team deal.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by MILLERHIGHLIFE View Post
    Well Maker was top 10. Look where that got us. Injured rental Mirotic. Even though the early trade we thought we were getting that other scrub, until it turned into 3 team deal.
    and Brogdon was 2nd round, as was Brown, as was Covington, as was Bazemore... and Parker was No2... what are you trying to say exactly? Nothing relevant to my reply on you anyway... Also... when Mirotic was "injured"? He only had a fracture on his thumb and missed 5 weeks...

    Mirotic went back to Europe only because we couldn't resign him... He didn't care about money... The Kings were offering him 13M and he rejected... he wanted to play for a contending team, but if we would have resigned him, we couldn't add Rolo and Hill who had no cap hold for us.... Mirotic went to Barcelona for 20M Euros (some 24M US - one of the best contracts in Europe) for four years... Taxation is mutch less in Spain, so the real money he will end up with, is about the same as if he would sign for 10M in MIL... He would have accept that if we could offer it...

    You see injured prone players everywhere don't you? Do you have injury ghosts stuck in your head?

    We didn't let Brogdon go because he is injury prone as you were saying in that other thread... We wanted him to stay and he wanted to stay too... But he didn't have his payday yet! He could have gone and leave us holding our dick, but instead... what did he do? He agreed on a sign and trade so that the Bucks could get those 3 picks back! Couldn't he just leave us and sign with the Pacers in free agency? Off course he could! ...but he didn't!

    Show some respect then to the players that have helped Giannis to get us where we now are and stop spreading nonsense around! The foolish thing the F.O. did, is that they didn't offer Brogdon a 60M/5 last October before the season even started... cause if we had offered him that at the time, he would have taken it!

    EDIT: one more thing... you say DDV wouldn't have any value on a trade... don't you? Do you remember his ranking in the ROY odds just before his injury, back in January? He had climbed 8th overall! Yes! he was drafted 17th and had climbed 9 places up leaving behind him both the Bridges and even Bamba who was drafted 6th! You know why?
    Because he showed "energy", athleticism, working discipline and superb defense potential that's why!... The shooting percentages can come to young players through training, but energy, speed, quickness, athleticism and working discipline, can't be taught... you either have them or you don't! ...and that's exactly what the other side will value in a possible trade (where they'll value him highly!).
    Last edited by buckalis; 08-22-2019 at 03:41 PM.

  8. #83
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    Still Mirotic most likely was a rental no matter what. Besides being injured and wasn't to exciting in the playoffs. Besides we had the 3 team trade where Maker went to Pistons, Stanley Johnson and Smith and 4 second round picks went to Pelicans and we got Mirotic. As of now. I rather have that package back and combined that with something else for a huge upgrade. Oh well. We pushed for championship and missed. Also Mirotic has a slow release shot like Brogdon. Best we moved on. We got Matthews and Korver that will shoot with a hand on them.

  9. #84
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    Well... we can't have the same back... We had a very difficult off season, where the F.O. did what it could as to retain as much out of our core... We had to use 21M of cap space as to resign Brolo, Hill and add Rolo because we needed to add another "big" CF and Brolo & Hill had 16M less cap hold than their new contracts...

    Now we have to find replacements for Brogdon and Mirotic if we are to start the season from where we ended the previous one and even improve a bit on our bench by having added Rolo to protect the rim and Korver to add some shooting from the bench (+ our youngsters stepping up of course)...

    That's exactly why I proposed to add Bogdanovic and Bjelica and ended up to propose a deal that overpays the Kings...

    I'm sure that Horst will look to other alternatives too... He knows he has to replace what we've lost and surely knows more than I do on what's going on around the league and what other alternatives exist, but surely it is outrageous for one to think "we added Matthews, so we've replaced Brogdon"... We added Matthews because he can shoot the ball (coming from bench) and he was available to us on a vet min contract (which is all we could add) nothing more, nothing less... but afterwards we also signed Korver who can shoot the ball even better and therefore we don't need Matthews anymore...

    So what we do as to go back with Bogdanovic and Bjelica and be the same (or better) as we were with Brogdon and Mirotic?

    1. We trade the players we didn't have with us or didn't use in the playoffs roster (i.e. Matthews, DDV and D.J.) and
    2. We trade the player that we have already replaced and improved upon by adding Rolo and Bender (i.e. Ilyasova) and
    3. Use the picks that Brogdon provided us with...

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