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  1. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Bay Area
    Posts
    28,893
    Quote Originally Posted by Quinnsanity View Post
    I've said it before and I'll say it again. I think there's a really clear 14. Then there are three modern players after them fighting for positioning amongst each other and potentially that group.

    Personally, here's my list:

    LeBron
    MJ
    Kareem
    Russell
    Wilt
    Bird
    Duncan
    Hakeem
    Shaq
    Magic
    Jerry West
    Oscar
    Kobe
    Moses

    And then you have the following three players in slots 15-17. I think any of them could vault as high as the top five, but they're also competing with each other specifically. Right now, this is how I'd order them:

    Curry
    Durant
    Kawhi

    But they are VERY close, and I expect to reevaluate that grouping every year from now until the end of their careers. If Kawhi wins another title and Finals MVP this year, he probably vaults both of them. If Curry wins another regular-season MVP and drags this Warriors team on a meaningful playoff run, that means a lot to me. If Durant manages to become the first player to really truly overcome a torn Achilles, then that will mean a lot to me as well. But that's where I'd have them now.
    You for real have Kawhi top 17 ALL Time? Over Kevin Garnett, D Wade, Dr. J, Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, etc etc. This is what I'm talking about here.

    He's a very good player, but pump the ****ing breaks people. He was brought in with warm blankets to the best organization in all of sports and helped put them back over the top once again in San Antonio. Earning Finals MVP in an easy win over the dismantling Heat on sub 20 ppg with no playmaking ability. At that point his lockdown D carried more weight (that consistently great D is long gone however). It was very much a team win. Duncan was still their clear leader/best player and All NBA 1st Team that year. It was like the Tony Parker or Iguodala Finals MVP. After not making it back to another Finals as the team's best player and throwing away a season, he then joined a 60 win Raptors team in the conference that finally lost Lebron and with some serious light shining from the bball Gods helped put them over the top (in the double OT win against the Bucks to fade going down 3-0, the lucky bounce against Philly in Game 7, and in playing a Finals Team that was at about 50% strength). It was great, but let's not act like this was some legendary carrying of a downtrodden franchise here. They crushed without him and he was simply the All NBA caliber player they needed to squeak them over the top in the newly opened conference. They were essentially gifted the Finals thereafter (Kawhi not taking over by any means).

    Again, we are talking about a 0X MVP here who has played in nothing but fantastic organizations that completely catered to his constant load management issues (and carried on just fine without him). He is certainly a guy you want on your playoff roster (especially well rested throughout the year), but give me a ****ing break with the top 20 All Time nonsense.

    I would also love to see him able to show up at the very top of the RPM/PIPM ladders at least a couple times (as is he has peaked at 5th).

    People are extremely clouded by recency bias with Kawhi. And frankly when you consider his first Finals MVP was against an imploding Heat team with the ghost of D Wade (Kawhi not even being his teams best player), and the second against a team with more significant injuries than any Finals team in history (with Kawhi not being some dominant presence on the floor), we can take those with a grain of salt as well. Specifically as his actual resume' has absolutely ZERO place in a top 20 debate.

    /rant.
    Last edited by tredigs; 07-24-2019 at 05:46 PM.

  2. #17
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    The 6
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    24,682
    Letís see if the Clippers make the finals first... the west is grimey

  3. #18
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    Apr 2010
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    17,865
    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    Ok
    Yea

  4. #19
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    Apr 2010
    Posts
    17,865
    People hype up Kawhi saying he ended 2 dynasties in Miami and golden state. Iíd argue injuries ended it more than anything. Raptors donít beat a full strength warriors and Kawhi won finals mvp in 2014 averaging just 18-6 while getting absolutely cooked by LeBron, it wasnít impressive at all.

    I sound like a hater lol I like Kawhi a lot but people are jumping the gun and overhyping some of the things heís done.

  5. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
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    Toronto
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    Kawhi if he wins his 3rd ring he will have as many rings as LeBron so he's getting there in the upper echelon of greats

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,880
    Top 20-25.

    If you look at his two championships, this one he could win with the Clippers would be the most impressive.

    In San Antonio, he was a role player, and wasn't necessarily the best player on the team.

    In Toronto, he was the clear cut best player, but did get a lot of help with injuries. (not taking anything away from his championship, but it's a fact).

    For the Clippers, if he wins a championship, and that's a big if, he would be the best player on the team, playing in a tougher conference, and leading a team that has never won to a championship.

    And at the end of the day, it's not all about the rings. He has 0 MVPs, is only a 3x all-star. He needs at least 5-6 years of playing at this level to have a top 10 career.
    Last edited by DanG; 07-25-2019 at 04:41 AM.

  7. #22
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    Sep 2012
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    1,880
    Quote Originally Posted by tredigs View Post
    You for real have Kawhi top 17 ALL Time? Over Kevin Garnett, D Wade, Dr. J, Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, etc etc. This is what I'm talking about here.

    He's a very good player, but pump the ****ing breaks people. He was brought in with warm blankets to the best organization in all of sports and helped put them back over the top once again in San Antonio. Earning Finals MVP in an easy win over the dismantling Heat on sub 20 ppg with no playmaking ability. At that point his lockdown D carried more weight (that consistently great D is long gone however). It was very much a team win. Duncan was still their clear leader/best player and All NBA 1st Team that year. It was like the Tony Parker or Iguodala Finals MVP. After not making it back to another Finals as the team's best player and throwing away a season, he then joined a 60 win Raptors team in the conference that finally lost Lebron and with some serious light shining from the bball Gods helped put them over the top (in the double OT win against the Bucks to fade going down 3-0, the lucky bounce against Philly in Game 7, and in playing a Finals Team that was at about 50% strength). It was great, but let's not act like this was some legendary carrying of a downtrodden franchise here. They crushed without him and he was simply the All NBA caliber player they needed to squeak them over the top in the newly opened conference. They were essentially gifted the Finals thereafter (Kawhi not taking over by any means).

    Again, we are talking about a 0X MVP here who has played in nothing but fantastic organizations that completely catered to his constant load management issues (and carried on just fine without him). He is certainly a guy you want on your playoff roster (especially well rested throughout the year), but give me a ****ing break with the top 20 All Time nonsense.

    I would also love to see him able to show up at the very top of the RPM/PIPM ladders at least a couple times (as is he has peaked at 5th).

    People are extremely clouded by recency bias with Kawhi. And frankly when you consider his first Finals MVP was against an imploding Heat team with the ghost of D Wade (Kawhi not even being his teams best player), and the second against a team with more significant injuries than any Finals team in history (with Kawhi not being some dominant presence on the floor), we can take those with a grain of salt as well. Specifically as his actual resume' has absolutely ZERO place in a top 20 debate.

    /rant.
    This.

    If you think about it, Sixers were a bucket away from eliminating Kawhi in the 2nd round.

    If the Raptors don't get out of that matchup, no one would be talking about Kawhi as the best player, let alone a top 20 player all-time. Still would be the same player though...

  8. #23
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    Dec 2014
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    Toronto
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    Watch him win MVP then everyone will be eating crow

  9. #24
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    Nov 2009
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    Bay Area
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tg11 View Post
    Watch him win MVP then everyone will be eating crow
    I mean I like the guy honestly.

    Edit: this comment didn't complete for some reason. The ending was along the lines of, "would love to see it". As is everything I wrote holds true. He has absolutely zero case among a top 20 debate. It's a joke to say otherwise.
    Last edited by tredigs; 07-25-2019 at 09:56 PM.

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    LA
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    45,445
    Quote Originally Posted by tredigs View Post
    You for real have Kawhi top 17 ALL Time? Over Kevin Garnett, D Wade, Dr. J, Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, etc etc. This is what I'm talking about here.

    He's a very good player, but pump the ****ing breaks people. He was brought in with warm blankets to the best organization in all of sports and helped put them back over the top once again in San Antonio. Earning Finals MVP in an easy win over the dismantling Heat on sub 20 ppg with no playmaking ability. At that point his lockdown D carried more weight (that consistently great D is long gone however). It was very much a team win. Duncan was still their clear leader/best player and All NBA 1st Team that year. It was like the Tony Parker or Iguodala Finals MVP. After not making it back to another Finals as the team's best player and throwing away a season, he then joined a 60 win Raptors team in the conference that finally lost Lebron and with some serious light shining from the bball Gods helped put them over the top (in the double OT win against the Bucks to fade going down 3-0, the lucky bounce against Philly in Game 7, and in playing a Finals Team that was at about 50% strength). It was great, but let's not act like this was some legendary carrying of a downtrodden franchise here. They crushed without him and he was simply the All NBA caliber player they needed to squeak them over the top in the newly opened conference. They were essentially gifted the Finals thereafter (Kawhi not taking over by any means).

    Again, we are talking about a 0X MVP here who has played in nothing but fantastic organizations that completely catered to his constant load management issues (and carried on just fine without him). He is certainly a guy you want on your playoff roster (especially well rested throughout the year), but give me a ****ing break with the top 20 All Time nonsense.

    I would also love to see him able to show up at the very top of the RPM/PIPM ladders at least a couple times (as is he has peaked at 5th).

    People are extremely clouded by recency bias with Kawhi. And frankly when you consider his first Finals MVP was against an imploding Heat team with the ghost of D Wade (Kawhi not even being his teams best player), and the second against a team with more significant injuries than any Finals team in history (with Kawhi not being some dominant presence on the floor), we can take those with a grain of salt as well. Specifically as his actual resume' has absolutely ZERO place in a top 20 debate.

    /rant.
    where do you rank bill walton?

  11. #26
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    Apr 2010
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    17,865
    Quote Originally Posted by Tg11 View Post
    Watch him win MVP then everyone will be eating crow
    I donít think anyone said he wonít or canít, he just hasnít.

  12. #27
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    Jun 2007
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    Nice
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    26,224
    Let's not forget that kawhi got a lot of help from the basketball gods in the Finals against a depleted GS team missing his 1st and 3rd best player, I still don't get why he gets a pass but whatever, that being said he's something else on both ends of the court but yeah before we call him an all time great let's see how he does in LAC.

  13. #28
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    IL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tg11 View Post
    Kawhi if he wins his 3rd ring he will have as many rings as LeBron so he's getting there in the upper echelon of greats
    How many regular season MVP's does he have?

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    Hope to see some new posters around here soon.

  14. #29
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    Sep 2007
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    KOBE ROCKS
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaVar Ball View Post
    I say Top 10 all time.


    Thoughts.
    If LeBron is still half the player he was, Kawhi want win the chip! But the Lakers and the Bucks or the best two teams in the NBA this year! JMO! P.S. watch out for the Jazz, I love what their team did, they will be extremely improved, I would not be surprised if they came out of the west, the Nuggets will be better as well. This will be one hell of a season!
    Last edited by lakers squad; 07-25-2019 at 06:05 PM.

  15. #30
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    Mar 2013
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    33,589
    Quote Originally Posted by THE MTL View Post
    All of the Top 10 alltime greats have in common is championships. You cant just boost Kwahi cause he won 3 with different teams. You have guys like Bird, Magic, Shaq, Duncan who all won 3 or more. Kwahi needs win another ring as well as to do more individually, he only has 3 allstar appearances and 3 All-NBA selections. I would say Top 20 without the 10+ AllNBA/Allstar appearances that the Top 10 greats all have in common
    Good ol Kwahi!

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