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  1. #1
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    Seattle Minimum Wage Study

    Seattle adapted a 15 min wage last year and here’s been the main effects so far

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn...age/index.html

    Basically:

    Experienced workers making less than 15 per hour before this benefited the most from this.

    People who weren’t working before the change and are less experienced workers fared the worst over the last year mainly because workers don’t want to train and hire less experienced workers and pay them 15 per hour

    Thoughts?


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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewersfan255 View Post
    Seattle adapted a 15 min wage last year and here’s been the main effects so far

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn...age/index.html

    Basically:

    Experienced workers making less than 15 per hour before this benefited the most from this.

    People who weren’t working before the change and are less experienced workers fared the worst over the last year mainly because workers don’t want to train and hire less experienced workers and pay them 15 per hour

    Thoughts?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    The effects will worsen as it goes on. Anyone okay with a $15 minimum wage is as short sided as it gets. You want to talk about minimum wage increases? Fine. Just be prepared to see the undereducated being pushed away from potential opportunities and the trickle up factor having negative ramifications with an increasing cost on products and services.

    So simple minded people are these days.

    Let's give these noneducated a healthy raise and see much it ****s up the balance of people in positions. What a cluster ****.
    GJO- You will never be forgotten. "MORE THAN MINFINITY"!

  3. #3
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    Increases to the minimum wage are good and should occur at regular intervals. The lesson with these changes is that they need to be incremental, which thankfully they usually are.

    But if we're surprised that people who weren't working (and therefore would have likely not been working regardless) are worse off, then boy howdy we're screwed. Because that's about as obvious as 1+1=2.
    Think long and hard about why you respond to nonsense. Please!


  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    Increases to the minimum wage are good and should occur at regular intervals. The lesson with these changes is that they need to be incremental, which thankfully they usually are.

    But if we're surprised that people who weren't working (and therefore would have likely not been working regardless) are worse off, then boy howdy we're screwed. Because that's about as obvious as 1+1=2.
    That’s the thing. 15/16 year old high school kids are going to be priced out of the market if the min wage gets to 15 per hour. The study showed that new workers had trouble finding jobs compared to areas around Seattle.

    Experienced workers will benefit but good luck to the high school kid looking to get into the workforce because companies aren’t going to pay 15 per hour for someone with no experience


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  5. #5
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    Increasing minimum wage does one thing.

    It creates inflation, it does nothing for the poor.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncsinmo View Post
    The effects will worsen as it goes on. Anyone okay with a $15 minimum wage is as short sided as it gets. You want to talk about minimum wage increases? Fine. Just be prepared to see the undereducated being pushed away from potential opportunities and the trickle up factor having negative ramifications with an increasing cost on products and services.

    So simple minded people are these days.

    Let's give these noneducated a healthy raise and see much it ****s up the balance of people in positions. What a cluster ****.
    “Short sided” comment from the party that gave us the last tax break that will increase the deficit by trillions and inevitably bankrupt Medicare. The party that gave us deregulation that worsened the last crash and will do the same again to the next crash. The party that continues to pass policies that increase pollution and destroy the ecosystem at a time when we’re watching a large scale die off of species and the ocean becoming toxic. The party that gave us “drill baby drill” while other countries turn to clean renewable resources and China begins to outsell us in solar panels and wind farms.

    The conservatives who have been on the wrong side of history for every major social change or fight for equal rights.

    Yeah keep throwing around “short sided” and “simple minded”.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    “Short sided” comment from the party that gave us the last tax break that will increase the deficit by trillions and inevitably bankrupt Medicare. The party that gave us deregulation that worsened the last crash and will do the same again to the next crash. The party that continues to pass policies that increase pollution and destroy the ecosystem at a time when we’re watching a large scale die off of species and the ocean becoming toxic. The party that gave us “drill baby drill” while other countries turn to clean renewable resources and China begins to outsell us in solar panels and wind farms.

    The conservatives who have been on the wrong side of history for every major social change or fight for equal rights.

    Yeah keep throwing around “short sided” and “simple minded”.
    Their motto is **** the poor!




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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Increasing minimum wage does one thing.

    It creates inflation, it does nothing for the poor.
    There is no way a policy like this does only one thing. You may argue that all the things it does are bad, but thinking that it only has one outcome is silly.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPoon
    man with hair like fire can destroy souls with a twitch of his thighs.

  9. #9
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    Raising the minimum wage rapidly isn't going to eliminate corporate greed nor will it fix all the issues our capitalist economy has created. Unfortunately we have two political parties that have long been more concerned about the rich than the working class, so working class wages and the minimum wage have remained stagnant for decades and decades. dbroncs talked about gradual increases...that hasn't been happening. So we've fallen way behind.

    If we can't afford to pay everyone who wants to work a livable wage, our problems are far greater than whatever number we set the minimum wage at. The most prosperous country in the world can afford to pay everyone working a full-time job a living wage. If we aren't finding ourselves able to, maybe we're not going about things the right way.

    It's great that Jeff Bezos is worth $130B dollars though.
    Hello there! Welcome to ManRam v8.00.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGGGG-Men View Post
    “Short sided” comment from the party that gave us the last tax break that will increase the deficit by trillions and inevitably bankrupt Medicare. The party that gave us deregulation that worsened the last crash and will do the same again to the next crash. The party that continues to pass policies that increase pollution and destroy the ecosystem at a time when we’re watching a large scale die off of species and the ocean becoming toxic. The party that gave us “drill baby drill” while other countries turn to clean renewable resources and China begins to outsell us in solar panels and wind farms.

    The conservatives who have been on the wrong side of history for every major social change or fight for equal rights.

    Yeah keep throwing around “short sided” and “simple minded”.
    It doesn't have to be a this party/that party issue. Why not just argue the merits of the situation?

  11. #11
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    I am for a UBI and against a minimum wage but that is probably too radical an idea for this debate.

    Yes it is expensive to live in big cities, but people who are good at their near minimum wage jobs, people who are the best employees in businesses that are the starting point for people, HATE the minimum wage increase. They were already making $15 an hour, now the idiots they were showing the ropes to who are bad employees are also making $15 an hour, and the raises that were going to come for the good employee are now being eaten up by the worse employees who are now being overpaid for what they bring to the business. In San Francisco the minimum wage has had a definite effect on the number of people employed in entry level positions and a connected decrease in customer service, and wait staff and kitchen staff have complained that the tips (which they split) have decreased significantly.

    Jerry Brown, when he signed the CA $15 minimum wage said we had no idea if it was going to be positive or negative overall which to me is an indication that we are doing it wrong. How can you sign a law without having a really good idea exactly what the outcome will be?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    I am for a UBI and against a minimum wage but that is probably too radical an idea for this debate.

    Yes it is expensive to live in big cities, but people who are good at their near minimum wage jobs, people who are the best employees in businesses that are the starting point for people, HATE the minimum wage increase. They were already making $15 an hour, now the idiots they were showing the ropes to who are bad employees are also making $15 an hour, and the raises that were going to come for the good employee are now being eaten up by the worse employees who are now being overpaid for what they bring to the business. In San Francisco the minimum wage has had a definite effect on the number of people employed in entry level positions and a connected decrease in customer service, and wait staff and kitchen staff have complained that the tips (which they split) have decreased significantly.

    Jerry Brown, when he signed the CA $15 minimum wage said we had no idea if it was going to be positive or negative overall which to me is an indication that we are doing it wrong. How can you sign a law without having a really good idea exactly what the outcome will be?
    because it's almost impossible to predict the many effects of a large scale project like that... anyone who tells you they know exactly what happens is either a fool or a liar.

    Which is why California has the wage going up slowly so they can monitor it's effects and modify it if need be.

    You say you are for the UBI, and I'm sure you have reasons why, but can you say with any certainty what would happen if you passed it? Of course not, because the effects of something like that will have cascading effects that we aren't even considering now.
    Last edited by flips333; 12-17-2018 at 10:53 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPoon
    man with hair like fire can destroy souls with a twitch of his thighs.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by flips333 View Post
    because it's almost impossible to predict the many effects of a large scale project like that... anyone who tells you they know exactly what happens is either a fool or a liar.

    Which is why California has the wage going up slowly so they can monitor it's effects and modify it if need be.

    You say you are for the UBI, and I'm sure you have reasons why, but can you say with any certainty what would happen if you passed it? Of course not, because the effects of something like that will have cascading effects that we aren't even considering now.
    I understand that, but the governor literally saying he had no idea if it would be good or bad? Shouldn't you have an idea before you sign it? I'm not looking for certainty. Then there is the issue with the "science" of economics where the funding for the studies seems to have a significant impact on the results.

    For the UBI I'd be in favor of selecting a medium sized market with major unemployment issues as a 5 to 10 year federally funded trial for the UBI.

  14. #14
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    It amazes me people are arguing over people now making $31k a year if they work full time. Like, you can't even live off that in most cities haha.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  15. #15
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    Interesting but…

    Where did the money come from?

    In order tp pay people more, one or more of several things has to happen.

    The company is getting by with less employees (possible, so what was accomplished?

    The company has raised prices to cover the increased cost of labor (a probability)

    If privately owned, the owners are accepting less in their pockets (unlikely)

    If publicly traded, stockholders are getting less dividends (could be disastrous)

    Planned expansion(s) are shelved (possibility)

    If they are a manufacturer, cheaper materials could be used damaging the product (long term problem)

    Benefit packages, especially retirements, could be re-evaluated (a real possibility)

    The money had to come from somewhere.


    If your pizza delivery guy is now getting $15 an hour to get you a hot one, don't you think the price of a pizza will go up? And I know some of you "progressives" will say that you are happily willing to pay more for a pie if it provides a "livable wage" for the delivery boy, but are you really or will you begin to shop around?

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