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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vee-Rex View Post
    It usually only comes from LeBron stans trying to prop up LeBron, or Wade haters trying to diminish Wade's impact. There's no other reason to say he 'gifted' Miami 2 championships. Agendas are agendas.

    He'd certainly have another ring or two if it wasn't for Golden State.

    He'd have 2 more rings without a doubt, if KD didn't decide to join the 73-9 Warriors lol

    In fact, Cleveland would have won last year IMO if he hadn't left the Cavs. He would have propelled them to the finals, again. The KDless warriors wouldn't have beaten him.

    Click here to register!

    Hope to see some new posters around here soon.

  2. #17
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    The whole narrative here is off, and your motives are fairly clear. But I'll bite....

    In LeBron's first free agency, regardless of team, wherever he landed would have been instant contenders. In the first move of the player empowerment era he decided to go to Miami and boost them into contention with Bosh.

    (Also, I have a feeling here you're going to try to credit wade with recruitment. That's not the case, LeBron doesn't work that way, as we've seen time and time again. )

    This was the GIFT. He didn't have to choose Miami. He could have went to Chicago, or NY or anywhere that had the cap, especially considering the pay cuts he and Both took. The Miami franchise should be grateful they got Bron to wear a Heat jersey. We've seen fans leave playoff games because of traffic. We've seen them lowball their legend in contract negotiations, pushing him out to Chicago. We've heard the stories of the **** they said to LeBron when he was considering leaving. That's why LeBron was a gift.

    Also, let's not act like the Miami FO was somehow controlling LeBron and not giving into his demands. They were as spineless as the Cavs, signing his buddies and drafting guys who he liked

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmellofan15 View Post
    The whole narrative here is off, and your motives are fairly clear. But I'll bite....

    In LeBron's first free agency, regardless of team, wherever he landed would have been instant contenders. In the first move of the player empowerment era he decided to go to Miami and boost them into contention with Bosh.

    (Also, I have a feeling here you're going to try to credit wade with recruitment. That's not the case, LeBron doesn't work that way, as we've seen time and time again. )

    This was the GIFT. He didn't have to choose Miami. He could have went to Chicago, or NY or anywhere that had the cap, especially considering the pay cuts he and Both took. The Miami franchise should be grateful they got Bron to wear a Heat jersey. We've seen fans leave playoff games because of traffic. We've seen them lowball their legend in contract negotiations, pushing him out to Chicago. We've heard the stories of the **** they said to LeBron when he was considering leaving. That's why LeBron was a gift.

    Also, let's not act like the Miami FO was somehow controlling LeBron and not giving into his demands. They were as spineless as the Cavs, signing his buddies and drafting guys who he liked
    Wade recruited them and if LeBron doesn’t come then that’s fine. Him and wade already decided they were teaming up so they would’ve went to Chicago together or if they decided against it Wade and Bosh could’ve brought in someone else with them.

    They drafted Napier who LeBron liked in 2014 in the last effort to keep him but other than that they were not spineless and ran by LeBron like the Cavs and now Lakers. LeBron wanted Spo fires, Riley said no. LeBron didn’t want to play in the post, Riley said too bad that’s where you’re best at so Spo is playing you there. Battier Ray Miller birdman.....all Riley signings. Did they talk to the big 3 and get opinions? Absolutely but the front office were the ones making the decisions and having the final say in everything and that’s literally not debatable.

    And don’t act like LeBron would’ve just taken Bosh elsewhere, it was Wade and LeBron going to Miami or Chicago until they were told Miami could bring a 3rd guy in so they recruited Bosh. Bosh wasn’t in the equation until then.

  4. #19
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    The fact of the matter is, the biggest mistake of LeBrons career was leaving Miami. Pau who was still an all star and Dragic coming off 3rd team all nba recently were coming.

    Dragic
    Wade
    LeBron
    Bosh
    Pau

  5. #20
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    Isn't the answer obvious? Because another, better super team came along that not even Lebron could surpass in the Warriors. Lebron joining Wade and Bosh in Miami felt unprecedented at the time (although it wasn't necessarily if you look at other great teams historically)—you had the best player in the league joining a rival and another top 5 player and bringing in another top 15 guy all on the same team in the same offseason.

    Talent-wise, nobody could come close to matching that Miami team at the time. Frankly, if it wasn't for that surprising collapse against Dallas and Wade's rapid decline around the time of their third year together, that Heat team probably wins even more titles. But then the Warriors came along and, frankly, were just a more imposing version of what that Heat team accomplished. Durant joined an already historically great basketball team. Barring some sort of freakish super team where multiple guys were taking massive discounts, there wasn't a team out there Lebron could have joined to surpass that Warriors squad from a sheer talent standpoint. And I think bringing a title to Cleveland and reclaiming his public image and legacy was more important after his stint with the Heat than necessarily winning the most rings possible.

    People who say Lebron "gifted the Heat two tiles" (myself included) are mostly just trolling Heat fans. But they're not really wrong either. If Lebron hadn't joined Wade and Bosh in Miami, the Heat are almost certainly still sitting at that one championship. And in 2010, he probably could have teamed up with half a dozen stars around the league and brought them a title or two. What if he had convinced Wade to join him in Chicago instead? The outcome is probably the same with 1-2 titles and him eventually going to back to Cleveland.


  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmellofan15 View Post
    The whole narrative here is off, and your motives are fairly clear. But I'll bite....

    In LeBron's first free agency, regardless of team, wherever he landed would have been instant contenders. In the first move of the player empowerment era he decided to go to Miami and boost them into contention with Bosh.

    (Also, I have a feeling here you're going to try to credit wade with recruitment. That's not the case, LeBron doesn't work that way, as we've seen time and time again. )

    This was the GIFT. He didn't have to choose Miami. He could have went to Chicago, or NY or anywhere that had the cap, especially considering the pay cuts he and Both took. The Miami franchise should be grateful they got Bron to wear a Heat jersey. We've seen fans leave playoff games because of traffic. We've seen them lowball their legend in contract negotiations, pushing him out to Chicago. We've heard the stories of the **** they said to LeBron when he was considering leaving. That's why LeBron was a gift.

    Also, let's not act like the Miami FO was somehow controlling LeBron and not giving into his demands. They were as spineless as the Cavs, signing his buddies and drafting guys who he liked
    You're really reaching here. Every franchise should be grateful to have LeBron where their jersey by your standards, but there are obvious reasons why LeBron had his best individual seasons (barring a couple in CLE after he left) and his most success in Miami. Your dismissals don't change that fact.

    And yes, Wade's recruitment played a role and no, Miami didn't sign his buddies.....unless you have inside knowledge of all the great times he had with Mike Miller, Udonis Haslem, Shane Battier, Chris Andersen, Norris Cole, Ronny Turiaf, & Juwan Howard prior to his arrival.

    Anywho carry on.....
    Last edited by SteBO; 07-17-2019 at 01:52 PM.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by WaDe03 View Post
    The fact of the matter is, the biggest mistake of LeBrons career was leaving Miami. Pau who was still an all star and Dragic coming off 3rd team all nba recently were coming.

    Dragic
    Wade
    LeBron
    Bosh
    Pau
    Umm... No.

    You're forgetting two pretty massive issues with that core:
    1. Bosh only played two more injury-plagued seasons after the core trio broke up, missing huge chunks of both seasons, and his career was ended after the blood clot discovery. The Heat are still recovering from this and it would have been a huge blow to Lebron's title chances.
    2. Wade was simply not the same guy anymore by the time Lebron left. His decline is a huge reason they couldn't repeat in their fourth season together, and that decline continued after Lebron left. He was no longer a legitimate No. 2 on a championship team—frankly he was a weak No. 3 at that point.

    If I had to bet the over/under on how many titles Lebron would have won with the heat had he stayed at 0.5, I would take the under pretty easily. The 14-15 season was the start of the Warriors' dominance league-wide, and if the Heat couldn't beat an aging Spurs team, there's not a chance in hell they would have beaten the Warriors.

    On top of that, Lebron didn't just win one more title—he won that title with his hometown team and the team that drafted him and single-handedly ended the drought of championships to a city that has been the joke of the sports world for the better part of a century. I'd argue that Lebron beating the Warriors as the underdog with the Cavs did more for his legacy than both of his other titles with Miami did combined. Frankly, it's probably the single most impressive feat on his resume when he retires.

    Staying in Miami not only would have been a mistake in the moment. It would have been a huge mistake at the end of this career he would have regretted. Going back to Cleveland was 100% the right move.


  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteBO View Post
    You're really reaching here. Every franchise should be grateful to have LeBron where their jersey by your standards, but there are obvious reasons why LeBron had his best individual seasons (barring a couple in CLE after he left) and his most success in Miami. Your dismissals don't change that fact.

    And yes, Wade's recruitment played a role and no, Miami didn't sign his buddies.....unless you have inside knowledge of all the great times he had with Mike Miller, Udonis Haslem, Shane Battier, Chris Andersen, Norris Cole, Ronny Turiaf, & Juwan Howard prior to his arrival.
    Definitely reaching and so much wrong in his post lol.

    I’ll say it again, LeBrons biggest mistake is leaving Miami. They taught him what I took to be a champion (LeBron said himself that Wade did this so good luck deflecting) and his peak years were in Miami. Miami LeBron is the best LeBron we’ve ever seen. Elite on both sides of the ball. He left the best organization he ever played for and has 1 ring in 12 years to show for it.

  9. #24
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    Here's a hot take.....Miami would of still won 2 titles with just bron and bosh and no wade.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by RowBTrice View Post
    Here's a hot take.....Miami would of still won 2 titles with just bron and bosh and no wade.
    Edit: Just realized I misread this post. I'm actually not 100% in disagreement with this. Wade was not the same guy in that second title run with Lebron. If you replaced him with another competent scoring threat, it's not impossible they still win that second title that season.
    Last edited by mightybosstone; 07-17-2019 at 02:14 PM.


  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by mightybosstone View Post
    Umm... No.

    You're forgetting two pretty massive issues with that core:
    1. Bosh only played two more injury-plagued seasons after the core trio broke up, missing huge chunks of both seasons, and his career was ended after the blood clot discovery. The Heat are still recovering from this and it would have been a huge blow to Lebron's title chances.
    2. Wade was simply not the same guy anymore by the time Lebron left. His decline is a huge reason they couldn't repeat in their fourth season together, and that decline continued after Lebron left. He was no longer a legitimate No. 2 on a championship team—frankly he was a weak No. 3 at that point.

    If I had to bet the over/under on how many titles Lebron would have won with the heat had he stayed at 0.5, I would take the under pretty easily. The 14-15 season was the start of the Warriors' dominance league-wide, and if the Heat couldn't beat an aging Spurs team, there's not a chance in hell they would have beaten the Warriors.

    On top of that, Lebron didn't just win one more title—he won that title with his hometown team and the team that drafted him and single-handedly ended the drought of championships to a city that has been the joke of the sports world for the better part of a century. I'd argue that Lebron beating the Warriors as the underdog with the Cavs did more for his legacy than both of his other titles with Miami did combined. Frankly, it's probably the single most impressive feat on his resume when he retires.

    Staying in Miami not only would have been a mistake in the moment. It would have been a huge mistake at the end of this career he would have regretted. Going back to Cleveland was 100% the right move.
    1. They would’ve found a suitable replacement and already would’ve had Pau soooo.....

    2. He carried them 1 game from the ECF with no Bosh or Whiteside in 2016 so he was definitely capable. He switched his trainer the summer of 2014 and had a resurgence physically following it.

    So LeBron with no Kyrie or Love with that garbage supporting cast pushed the Warriors to 6 but wade LeBron Pau Dragic Whiteside etc couldn’t?

    I’ll agree with that, it’s the greatest finals performance ever.

    That’s your opinion and that’s fine but he has 1 ring in 12 years to show for it when he was winning in Miami at a much higher rate.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by RowBTrice View Post
    Here's a hot take.....Miami would of still won 2 titles with just bron and bosh and no wade.
    Here’s some takes, swap LeBron with Kobe and they win at least the same amount of rings at worst and they win 2011 for sure. With no Wade LeBron and Bosh to Miami never happen.

    PSDs biggest hater/most negative poster has returned, good to see you!

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by WaDe03 View Post
    Definitely reaching and so much wrong in his post lol.

    I’ll say it again, LeBrons biggest mistake is leaving Miami. They taught him what I took to be a champion (LeBron said himself that Wade did this so good luck deflecting) and his peak years were in Miami. Miami LeBron is the best LeBron we’ve ever seen. Elite on both sides of the ball. He left the best organization he ever played for and has 1 ring in 12 years to show for it.
    I love how you're lumping in the seven years prior to his Miami stint like those should count and completely dismissing how unlikely it is that he wins another title in Miami if he'd stayed. Seriously, dude, you've become kind of a caricature of yourself this summer—such a blatantly shameless homer that having conversations about the Heat with you are just completely pointless.


  14. #29
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    This thread is idiotic. LeGm tried. And failed. He was the GM of that cavs team and all of the guys he wanted resulted in a dumpster fire.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by WaDe03 View Post
    1. They would’ve found a suitable replacement and already would’ve had Pau soooo....
    How would they have afforded all four guys? Also, that window with Pau as an All-Star would have lasted only two more seasons. The Cavs won one title in that window. Is it that likely that the Heat win more than one title in those two years? No—it's really, really not.

    2. He carried them 1 game from the ECF with no Bosh or Whiteside in 2016 so he was definitely capable. He switched his trainer the summer of 2014 and had a resurgence physically following it.
    His prime was done. His superstardom on the court was over. Get over it.

    So LeBron with no Kyrie or Love with that garbage supporting cast pushed the Warriors to 6 but wade LeBron Pau Dragic Whiteside etc couldn’t?
    Bosh wasn't even playing at that point. Dragic and Pau weren't necessarily locks to join the team, and I'm not sure how Miami would have found the money for them. And Whiteside was still a baby at that point. You're basing this on a hypothetical roster that never existed and wasn't especially likely to exist.

    I’ll agree with that, it’s the greatest finals performance ever.
    Then why are you disagreeing with me? If you agree that title is the single greatest feather in his cap, why should he have stayed in Miami? What would he have accomplished staying with the Heat that he didn't accomplish by coming back to Cleveland?

    That’s your opinion and that’s fine but he has 1 ring in 12 years to show for it when he was winning in Miami at a much higher rate.
    See my previous post on this, but this stat is a horrible one. If your take is that Lebron should have stayed in Miami, then the first seven years of his career are completely irrelevant. We should only be looking at the last five. And the likelihood that he would have won more rings in Miami in those five years than if he had stayed is EXTREMELY low. But I'm talking to a massive homer, so...


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