Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    3,048

    Could the Bucks have done better with Tony Snell?

    The Bucks have recently traded their 1st pick and Tony Snell for John Leure... This reduced the 22M owned to Snell over the next two seasons to only 9.5M for this season, as well as secured avoiding to pay lux tax for this season or the next season.

    Avoiding to pay lux tax, is really important at this stage, because a team can only pay lux tax for three out of four seasons before it is asked to pay the (severe in cost) repeater's tax and the Bucks are looking to extend Giannis' contract for the 21/22 season, which will probably cause entering the lux tax at a later stage...

    However, the Bucks have failed to re-trade John Leure and this caused to waive and stretch his contract for this and the following two seasons at a cost of 3.2M per season... What this means, is that the Bucks have 7M of dead cap for this season, but they'll have 5M of dead cup (instead of only 1.8M) for the two seasons that follow too...

    Could the Bucks have saved that (really important) extra 3.2M over the next two seasons? If they would, it could mean that the current cap space available, wouldn't be at 6M, but would be 9.7M instead... In other words the Bucks could have signed Marcus Morris in this free agency and leave a roster spot open, thus playing with 14 players...

    IMO, the Bucks could have traded Tony Snell by the trade dead line last season... We could have offered Tony Snell (instead of Jason Smith) to the Pelicans (who were in need to add a 3&D wing) as to get Mirotic, keep Jason Smith and just waive Jason Smith and never sign Pau Gasol or Tim Frazier...

    In addition, this would mean that the Bucks would never have to waive (the extremely promising) Chris Wood last season...

    If this was the move that should have happened, the Bucks would now have the current roster + the 30th pick + Christian Wood (ie a 15 players roster) and would still be 6M bellow the lux tax (because Wood's and the pick's salaries would almost equal the 3.2M cost of waiving Leure's contract for this season)...

    Obviously, Wood's and D.J. Wilson's presence would have made Ilyasova completely obsolete to keep... Which then means that the Bucks could trade (expiring - his contract isn't guaranteed for the 20/21 season) Ilyasova + a couple (or all) of the picks they got out of the Brogdon trade and get Robert Covington...

    Of course the Bucks can still trade Ilyasova for Covington as we speak... But in the mean time they lost the 30th pick, they have added 3.2M of dead cap space and they lost Christian Wood too...

    Big difference, ain't it?

    Interesting that neither Gasol, or Snell were used in the playoffs, while Tim Frazier was only used for... 14 secs!!! (only to prevent Kyrie get the ball - which could have been a mission of any player).
    Last edited by buckalis; 07-14-2019 at 11:56 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    11,307
    No. You don't think they tried trading snell. You literally never look at anything from the other teams perspective. New Orleans didn't give a crap who they got back. All they cared about was the picks and not taking on contracts. They had no desire to take on snell.

    And covington would be a great get. But yoh better be offering more than just ersan. Cov is younger than ersan, averaged more pts last year than ersans best full year, almost as many boards per game, 2 steals and 1 block per game. Covington is a good player on a fair contract. He's not being given away for a lesser, older player on an expiring deal. To get covington, you'll have to at least add that Indiana pick, but probably more.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    3,048
    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    No. You don't think they tried trading snell. You literally never look at anything from the other teams perspective. New Orleans didn't give a crap who they got back. All they cared about was the picks and not taking on contracts. They had no desire to take on snell.

    And covington would be a great get. But yoh better be offering more than just ersan. Cov is younger than ersan, averaged more pts last year than ersans best full year, almost as many boards per game, 2 steals and 1 block per game. Covington is a good player on a fair contract. He's not being given away for a lesser, older player on an expiring deal. To get covington, you'll have to at least add that Indiana pick, but probably more.

    Before Davis asked to be traded, the Pelicans were looking to buy a 3&D wing and were even prepared to pay picks for him... They made an offer to Hawks for (much more expensive than Snell) Bazemore, which the Hawks rejected because they wanted more... remember?

    In any case, I brought the Pels up only as an example... Plenty of teams are looking for 3&D wings and Snell's contract wasn't exactly unfair for a 40% 3pt shooter that can defend... I'm pretty sure we could have moved Snell for an expiring last season...

    The Wolves are on a rebuild... they will trade Covington only because he is on a 3 more years contract... Any expiring (and not only Ilyasova) will do for them as long as there are picks included and even the better if there is an asset included as well... There should be no problem to pack Ilyasova with Connaughton or Brown if needed and additionally use the picks as well if we can get Covington...

    We really need him as to fill up the starting roster if we are to contend for the title this season...

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    11,307
    When Davis requested a trade, NO was 22-28. They werent in the playoff hunt. As soon as he announced he wanted to be traded, they decided to sell mirotic. They werent interested in taking on contracts to sell mirotic. I bet they would have rather let him expire than take on snell.

    At the end of the day, you can spin it how you want, but the league basically spoke. Snell isn't good and his contract sucks. The fact we had to give up a first round pick just to get out of his deal a year early proves that. The bucks made the classic bucks mistake of overpaying for a mediocre at best player coming off a career year. We did it with Henson. We did it with Sanders. We did it with Bobby Simmons back in the day. And now we did it with snell. It was a bad deal that no one wanted unless you attached valuable picks to it. 4 2nds wasn't enough value.

    By the trade deadline, snell was mostly out of the rotation. The nights he played 20 minutes or more at that point of the season were either blowouts or games that at least 1 of bled, brogdon, hill or middleton missed. The bucks knew he sucked by that point and knew his contract was a negative. No one wanted that without significant assets.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    3,048
    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    When Davis requested a trade, NO was 22-28. They werent in the playoff hunt. As soon as he announced he wanted to be traded, they decided to sell mirotic. They werent interested in taking on contracts to sell mirotic. I bet they would have rather let him expire than take on snell.

    At the end of the day, you can spin it how you want, but the league basically spoke. Snell isn't good and his contract sucks. The fact we had to give up a first round pick just to get out of his deal a year early proves that. The bucks made the classic bucks mistake of overpaying for a mediocre at best player coming off a career year. We did it with Henson. We did it with Sanders. We did it with Bobby Simmons back in the day. And now we did it with snell. It was a bad deal that no one wanted unless you attached valuable picks to it. 4 2nds wasn't enough value.

    By the trade deadline, snell was mostly out of the rotation. The nights he played 20 minutes or more at that point of the season were either blowouts or games that at least 1 of bled, brogdon, hill or middleton missed. The bucks knew he sucked by that point and knew his contract was a negative. No one wanted that without significant assets.
    As I said before, the Pelicans are used just as an example here... Even if it wouldn't work, then I'm sure that trading both Snell and Ilyasova plus the pick, for JR Smith would have worked and would have saved the the 6.4M the Bucks had to spread over the next two seasons...

    The Cavs couldn't get a customer to buy and waive JR Smith (at a cost of 3.8M) and they had to pay another 0.5M on Smith's guaranteed money, so that they could find a customer for him until July the 15th... (that is today). Now, they will have to waive him themselves without any return what so ever and pay him 4.3M...

    We could therefore pay the 3.8M to waive Smith (which is only 0.6M more than the 3.2M we will be paying to Leure this season) but would have saved the 6.4M owned to Leure for the next two seasons... But... We would also have added Ilyasova's salary in our available cash, which would then cause to have 12.5M more to spend (albeit for 3 free agents) in free agency than the 6M we only have now (for 2 MIN free agents)...

    In any case, waiving Christian Wood in order to land Gasol, proved to be a huge mistake... The Pels picked him immediately after we waived him, gave him significant playing time in which he performed very well and have kept him for their future counting on him to be a valuable piece in their rotation...

    We now have two empty roster spots and hope to find better than Wood for one of them (good luck with this)...
    Last edited by buckalis; 07-15-2019 at 03:52 AM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Schofield, WI
    Posts
    2,746
    "In any case, waiving Christian Wood in order to land Gasol, proved to be a huge mistake... The Pels picked him immediately after we waived him, gave him significant playing time in which he performed very well and have kept him for their future counting on him to be a valuable piece in their rotation..."

    NO waived Wood. Really counting on him to be a valuable piece....

    Gasol didnt play in playoffs because he was injured but I didn't love the deal when it was made but Giannis loved chatting and learning from him, but I hope the Bucks bring Wood back on minimum deal.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    3,048
    Quote Originally Posted by gopackgo87 View Post
    "In any case, waiving Christian Wood in order to land Gasol, proved to be a huge mistake... The Pels picked him immediately after we waived him, gave him significant playing time in which he performed very well and have kept him for their future counting on him to be a valuable piece in their rotation..."

    NO waived Wood. Really counting on him to be a valuable piece....

    Gasol didnt play in playoffs because he was injured but I didn't love the deal when it was made but Giannis loved chatting and learning from him, but I hope the Bucks bring Wood back on minimum deal.
    The Pelicans waived Wood because they have another 21M of cap space to spend and all 15 roster spots filled with rookies or valuable players... Not because they wanted too... Obviously drafting Zion and trading AD on a King's deal, twisted all their future plans up side down!

    Wood asked for his next year's contract to be guaranteed right now or to be released, while N.O. has (correctly) planned to have 20 players in the training camp and then choose 15 between them... As we already know from the Bucks, he won't take a two way either!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    3,048
    In fact, the Bucks FO seems to have done only 2 mistakes from last season, that could have had us ending up in a match better spot...

    1. Was not trading Snell last season... We obviously could have traded Snell and those 4 picks for Mirotic to the Pelicans (who didn't know or could imagine, or could plan accordingly that they'll end up with the 1st pick) and could have saved Jason Smith in order to let him expire... If we would have, it would save us that 30th pick we lost and would additionally save the 3.2M over three seasons we had to stretch in order to wipe out Leure's salary off the books...

    2. Was letting Christian Wood go and land Pau Gasol instead... It was obvious that Gasol wouldn't help and that Wood had enough potential to be ready and help the team the following season...

    If we would have done both the above mentioned, we would now have the same roster, but with 17 players under contract with the team (the 30th pick + Christian Wood) of which the salaries would equal the dead cap money we now have locked on Wood... but we would have much more many assets to negotiate a trade later and would still be under the lux tax threshold by as much as we now are...

    Meaning that then we could now be in a position to offer both Ilyasova and D.J. Wilson to the Nets in order to get Dinwiddie back (because we would then have Wood to take D.J. Wilson's spot) and additionally, other than have Brogdon's absence replaced, we would be in a position to negotiate a Bledsoe trade by adding another asset on him and therefore raise his trade value...

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    30,066
    Wood was okay. But something must of been going on behind the scenes. Either whined around or bad in the locker room or something. Bud didn't have it and didn't play him. Wood only got action with Herd and we were like the worst Gleague team. So most likely yeah Wood fills up the box score but doesn't help win. He is most likely a Whiteside lite.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •