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  1. #451
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    Quote Originally Posted by All-In View Post
    Winslow is 23 years old and is making $13 million the next two seasons WITH a team option during the amazing class of 2021

    OR

    Blake is set to be a injury prone 32-33 year old making $40 million by the year 2022 which bypasses the very important summer of 2021, and you want to bring up injury history?

    There's differences with their injury circumstances aka context matters, Winslow got hurt this year by incidental contact and wasn't a non-contact injury which is key, secondly concussion's aren't as frequent in the NBA as the NFL so I'm not that afraid of recurrence, it also wasn't a soft tissue tear or bone fracture which clearly are plaguing Blake, and most importantly it's about attrition, Blake is now 30 years old and continues to deal with bone and soft tissue injuries, that stuff builds up over time and makes them likely to reoccur

    Outside of Winslow's second season where he hurt his shoulder there haven't been many reoccurring long term injuries where we should be worried that much about his durability, and his other injuries (knee, thigh) haven't been major injuries as he's still played 78, 66 and 68 games for the season

    Since 2014-2015 these are the amounts of games Blake has played per season: 67, 35, 61, 58 and 75 but still got hurt at the end of the season where he missed crucial reg season games and playoff games

    Winslow isn't the healthiest of fellows, that's not debatable, but lets not act like this is close, Blake's injury history has become a major red flag over time and his massive contract ups the risk profile of any organization to the point of John Wall type risk

    While in the event Winslow does get hurt, his contract is SO team friendly there really isn't much risk involved, and the difference in contract/health/age/defense makes up for Blake's overall better skill set

    Soooooo long story short, I think Winslow's contract has better value
    I couldnít have said it better myself. Simple question is does Blake make the Heat title contenders? I donít mean making it to the ECF or just making it to the Finals and get swept. I mean actually winning it. To me the answer is NOOOOO! U donít give up ur future for the opportunity to be just ok. Let this team grow and see if u can add to this team without sacrificing the future. Unless We are getting a potential game changing player like a Lillard or a Kawhi or someone on that level. U make smaller moves or moves that wonít keep u from potentially going after Giannis.

  2. #452
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    Quote Originally Posted by beasted86 View Post
    You seem to very hastily gloss over the huge canyon in impact as if they are even remotely close. Yes there's a salary risk, but in the meantime the team is much much better.

    The injury risk with Blake is obvious. But so is it on a much smaller scale with Winslow. Winslow has missed a minimum of 14 games every season since his rookie year. Since the other 2 guys aren't consistently available and Waiters appears done with the HEAT, it's a trade of Blake for Winslow.

    IMO, if we're looking at this trade in a 2 year vacuum, Miami is clearly better with Blake than they are with Winslow and the 2 other high priced fillers. It's just a matter of risk whether management feels Blake has the possibility to want to opt out, or that they can trade him down the line to clear salary space if needed.
    This isnít a trade of just Winslow for Blake. Itís a trade for Winslow, potentially Giannis, Beal, Oladipo and any other potential superstar. Once u get Blake thatís it for our money; not to mention the assets that we have to give up to get Blake. Iím pretty surprised Beasted that u would want this trade. Ur normally not so short sighted with ur trade thoughts.

  3. #453
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    Quote Originally Posted by king james View Post
    I couldnít have said it better myself. Simple question is does Blake make the Heat title contenders? I donít mean making it to the ECF or just making it to the Finals and get swept. I mean actually winning it. To me the answer is NOOOOO!
    He makes us better but NOT a championship team. But it doesn't mean Miami shouldn't try to upgrade and get better.

    Quote Originally Posted by king james View Post
    U donít give up ur future for the opportunity to be just ok. Let this team grow and see if u can add to this team without sacrificing the future. Unless We are getting a potential game changing player like a Lillard or a Kawhi or someone on that level. U make smaller moves or moves that wonít keep u from potentially going after Giannis.
    Understandable.... But is that Pat way? lol

    I think most of us would love Lillard on the roster. Miami needs a top five scorer if they can't get their hands on a top 5 player. Winslow isn't going to do anything for us in the grand scheme of things. He is what he is, and to me he is a very good 6th man, tool box type of player.

    I believe he will be traded to the Warriors right after Dec 15, for DLO. But of course I could be wrong.







    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    As a rookie Micheal Beasley averaged 13.9pts per game on .472 shooting. Do you know how many times Kobe Bryant or Tracy Mcgrady shot at that percent or better? Never in there whole careers. If Beas can be what he was when he was a rookie (he won't hell be better) then the heat are coming away with another steal.

  4. #454
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    Quote Originally Posted by king james View Post
    This isnít a trade of just Winslow for Blake. Itís a trade for Winslow, potentially Giannis, Beal, Oladipo and any other potential superstar.
    I gave up on Beal, since he extended...smh

    Also Beal & Oladipo are NOT super star players.

    If Giannis reps leak info on he is interested in Miami, I will be on board with saving Cap for him. The only news I heard about Giannis is from Steven A (I know lol). If KD comes back healthy and takes over the East next season, Giannis might go to GS.

    Quote Originally Posted by king james View Post
    Once u get Blake thatís it for our money; not to mention the assets that we have to give up to get Blake. Iím pretty surprised Beasted that u would want this trade. Ur normally not so short sighted with ur trade thoughts.
    What assets do you believe we would have to give up for Blake? I really don't think much at all.

    Back to Giannis...

    If Miami keeps everything together, and we actually can be better then the Bucks & the only thing we need is Giannis. Then maybe he will give Miami a fair look.

    Miami would have to make it to the ECF next season & we lose to the Nets; something like that.







    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    As a rookie Micheal Beasley averaged 13.9pts per game on .472 shooting. Do you know how many times Kobe Bryant or Tracy Mcgrady shot at that percent or better? Never in there whole careers. If Beas can be what he was when he was a rookie (he won't hell be better) then the heat are coming away with another steal.

  5. #455
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dade County View Post
    I gave up on Beal, since he extended...smh

    Also Beal & Oladipo are NOT super star players.

    If Giannis reps leak info on he is interested in Miami, I will be on board with saving Cap for him. The only news I heard about Giannis is from Steven A (I know lol). If KD comes back healthy and takes over the East next season, Giannis might go to GS.



    What assets do you believe we would have to give up for Blake? I really don't think much at all.

    Back to Giannis...

    If Miami keeps everything together, and we actually can be better then the Bucks & the only thing we need is Giannis. Then maybe he will give Miami a fair look.

    Miami would have to make it to the ECF next season & we lose to the Nets; something like that.
    You get it. The others are blinded.

    Yes Blake is injury prone, but you don't halt 2 years for a chance at 1 player. Oladipo is nice, but not at all a superstar, and definitely won't push the HEAT much higher than a healthy Blake would. Beal is off the market.

  6. #456
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    Blake has never pushed a team anywhere. Period. I much rather let this team grow, get cheaper options, keep our hands open in case someone wants to come (Someone will if we stay competitive, freaking Nets landed kyrie and KD after a first round exit) than paying him nearly $40 millon a year to be out at the most crucial moments nearly all the time.

  7. #457
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    Quote Originally Posted by beasted86 View Post
    You seem to very hastily gloss over the huge canyon in impact as if they are even remotely close. Yes there's a salary risk, but in the meantime the team is much much better.

    The injury risk with Blake is obvious. But so is it on a much smaller scale with Winslow. Winslow has missed a minimum of 14 games every season since his rookie year. Since the other 2 guys aren't consistently available and Waiters appears done with the HEAT, it's a trade of Blake for Winslow.

    IMO, if we're looking at this trade in a 2 year vacuum, Miami is clearly better with Blake than they are with Winslow and the 2 other high priced fillers. It's just a matter of risk whether management feels Blake has the possibility to want to opt out, or that they can trade him down the line to clear salary space if needed.
    Who's looking at this trade in a two year vacuum though? You don't honestly think Blake is going to opt out of a $40 million contract, do you?

    You also say Miami can trade Blake down the line? So I guess there's value in being the third team in 5 years trying to move off Blake's contract, huh?

    And when does it mean getting a ďbetterĒ player means that the team will automatically be better as well? Tell that to Boston who lost Kyrie AND Horford for Kemba, sure looks like the void in talent loss hasnít affected them...Or what about Charlotte? They lose Kemba but they look just as good as they were last season...or what about the Nets? I thought Kyrie was an upgrade over DLO?

    I mean, lets see how Blake plays before we make any grand assertions too, the guy just turned 30 coming off of multiple injuries and had knee surgery, he might be declining in skill, while on the other hand Winslow is only 23 and in my opinion can reach an Andre Iguodala level of role player which at Winslowís price point is one of the most valuable contracts to have

    I really think you underrate the value of championship role players which I believe Winslow isÖ.Blake isnít a championship anything, the league is geared toward guard/wing initiators and not big initiators

    Adding a guard/wing initiator with Butler is what we should be aiming for and being patient for the right deal or free agent is a better risk assessment than ďlets trade one of our best assets for an injury prone, possibly declining, big initiator, in a league that favors guard/wing initiators since we want to be marginally better for the next three seasons with little chance of acquiring another star player and really pushing for a titleĒ

  8. #458
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dade County View Post
    I gave up on Beal, since he extended...smh

    Also Beal & Oladipo are NOT super star players.

    If Giannis reps leak info on he is interested in Miami, I will be on board with saving Cap for him. The only news I heard about Giannis is from Steven A (I know lol). If KD comes back healthy and takes over the East next season, Giannis might go to GS.



    What assets do you believe we would have to give up for Blake? I really don't think much at all.

    Back to Giannis...

    If Miami keeps everything together, and we actually can be better then the Bucks & the only thing we need is Giannis. Then maybe he will give Miami a fair look.

    Miami would have to make it to the ECF next season & we lose to the Nets; something like that.
    Oladipo isn't a "superstar" but he's a star guard/wing initiator and we've talked about the importance of these type of players:

    Who is better Embiid or Butler? Embiid
    Who closed during the playoffs? Butler

    Who is better Jokic or Murray? Jokic
    Who closed during the playoffs? Murray

    Same thing happens with the Twolves, who is better KAT or Wiggins? KAT, but who closes for them?

    Also, Oladipo is one of the best two-way wing initiators in the league (when healthy), a team with Nunn, Oladipo, Butler, Wislow, Bam, Herro, 2020 first rd pick is better constructed to win titles than Dragic, Nunn, Butler, Blake, Bam, Herro, 2020 first rd pick (not to mention the fact Blake is 3 years older than Oladipo)

    Even in a shorten season last year Oladipo was still 4th in real plus/minus for SG (better than Donovan Mitchell) and the season before he was 6th in the league in real plus/minus...so yea, I think he is also worth the wait (if healthy)

    There's also Lebron, Kawhi, Paul George, Hayward as free agents in 2021 too...I rather not trade for someone like Blake and just take the risk on the 2021 class OR wait for a better trade OR just keep on the path of growing organically (aka Herro, Bam, Winslow), creating assets out of nothing (aka Nunn) and keeping a flexible cap sheet moving forward

    I remember a lot of people were upset we didn't pull the trigger on Butler last year but guess what? Patience, caution and level headiness ended up helping in the long run, go figure

  9. #459
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    Quote Originally Posted by naps View Post
    Blake has never pushed a team anywhere. Period. I much rather let this team grow, get cheaper options, keep our hands open in case someone wants to come (Someone will if we stay competitive, freaking Nets landed kyrie and KD after a first round exit) than paying him nearly $40 millon a year to be out at the most crucial moments nearly all the time.
    This is an option to, but I would still like to upgrade while doing so. Also, I do not need to see anymore of Winslow, and if Miami isn't planning on re-sign Dragic, then he needs to be moved by late Dec; his numbers are solid, we should be able to get a 1st rd pick very easy, and then trade that pick to OKC, so Miami can get their 1st rd pick back.

    Teams that are not doing so well, that might want to make some different moves.

    Bulls 4-10 as of right now.
    I care nothing for K Love, so I will not add the Cavs lol
    Kings might not want to pay Buddy Hield.
    GS is 2-12, so they are done for the year.
    I donít favor LMA or DeMar any more.
    If Portland has lost their mind and would trade us Lillard I would be on board LMAO
    We know OKC wants to make some trades, but I no longer care for Gallinari.







    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    As a rookie Micheal Beasley averaged 13.9pts per game on .472 shooting. Do you know how many times Kobe Bryant or Tracy Mcgrady shot at that percent or better? Never in there whole careers. If Beas can be what he was when he was a rookie (he won't hell be better) then the heat are coming away with another steal.

  10. #460
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    Quote Originally Posted by All-In View Post
    Oladipo isn't a "superstar" but he's a star guard/wing initiator and we've talked about the importance of these type of players:

    Who is better Embiid or Butler? Embiid
    Who closed during the playoffs? Butler

    Who is better Jokic or Murray? Jokic
    Who closed during the playoffs? Murray

    Same thing happens with the Twolves, who is better KAT or Wiggins? KAT, but who closes for them?

    Also, Oladipo is one of the best two-way wing initiators in the league (when healthy), a team with Nunn, Oladipo, Butler, Wislow, Bam, Herro, 2020 first rd pick is better constructed to win titles than Dragic, Nunn, Butler, Blake, Bam, Herro, 2020 first rd pick (not to mention the fact Blake is 3 years older than Oladipo)

    Even in a shorten season last year Oladipo was still 4th in real plus/minus for SG (better than Donovan Mitchell) and the season before he was 6th in the league in real plus/minus...so yea, I think he is also worth the wait (if healthy)

    There's also Lebron, Kawhi, Paul George, Hayward as free agents in 2021 too...I rather not trade for someone like Blake and just take the risk on the 2021 class OR wait for a better trade OR just keep on the path of growing organically (aka Herro, Bam, Winslow), creating assets out of nothing (aka Nunn) and keeping a flexible cap sheet moving forward

    I remember a lot of people were upset we didn't pull the trigger on Butler last year but guess what? Patience, caution and level headiness ended up helping in the long run, go figure
    Can't argue with this post. We will see what happens.







    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    As a rookie Micheal Beasley averaged 13.9pts per game on .472 shooting. Do you know how many times Kobe Bryant or Tracy Mcgrady shot at that percent or better? Never in there whole careers. If Beas can be what he was when he was a rookie (he won't hell be better) then the heat are coming away with another steal.

  11. #461
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    A Trade involving Miami HEAT & Portland for Lillard...



    Portland: Winslow, Nunn, Okpala, Waiters, 2 first rd picks.

    Other Team: gets Dragic, sends Miami a 1st rd pick... Miami sends a 1st rd pick to Portland.

    HEAT: Lillard & filler


    Lillard
    Herro
    Butler
    Bam
    ML

    Miami wanted Beal, but he extended.







    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    As a rookie Micheal Beasley averaged 13.9pts per game on .472 shooting. Do you know how many times Kobe Bryant or Tracy Mcgrady shot at that percent or better? Never in there whole careers. If Beas can be what he was when he was a rookie (he won't hell be better) then the heat are coming away with another steal.

  12. #462
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    The Blazers are NOT trading Lillard, so lets go ahead and get that one out of the way.

  13. #463
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    If Blazers dont make the playoffs, they just might start selling.

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