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Thread: Polytheism

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    First, don't call me ignorant of Greek mythology, bro you didn't even know who Apollo was

    I read them like fairytales now because to us they are outdated. I do not believe the ancient Greeks read them like fairytales, it's what they believed. I'm aware of the underlying significance to their stories. I even said as much, I have repeatedly alluded to how the Greeks crafted this complex religion to explain the natural events around them. I am aware that their religion is an attempt to explain nature, however their explanations were supernatural. If you do not believe that to be the case, you are the one who is ignorant.

    This is the Ignorance effect. Where someone transposes their beliefs on a belief system to win an internet argument. And it's not going to work, so I will ask you to clarify your point, because I doubt it is in actuality as ignorant as you make it sound.

    Are you saying that the Greeks didn't believe in the Greek Gods? Do you believe they did not believe that there was a God Apollo? Do you think they believed that all of the Gods were metaphorical and not real?


    I think the main problem here is that you don't think anyone knows anything about religions except you, and obviously that's not true at all. In fact, for someone who didn't know who Apollo was, I don't think you are in any position to talk about who is more knowledgeable of Greek Gods...
    Your harping on apollo kinda illustrates what I'm talking about here, you read a few stories and facts about it and you think that is killing the ignorance I'm talking about. It's not. I'm talking about a general ignorance toward religion and spirituality.

    Clarify what point?
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Your harping on apollo kinda illustrates what I'm talking about here, you read a few stories and facts about it and you think that is killing the ignorance I'm talking about. It's not. I'm talking about a general ignorance toward religion and spirituality.

    Clarify what point?
    Again, why do you think you're the only person on PSD who understands religion and spirituality. You bring this high and mighty attitude to every conversation about religion. You know what religion really is and everyone else is dumb.

    As for clarification, answer these questions:

    Are you saying that the Greeks didn't believe in the Greek Gods?

    Do you believe they did not believe that there was a God Apollo?

    Do you think they believed that all of the Gods were metaphorical and not real?

  3. #123
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    I donít know shite about quantum mechanics (for whatever reason, my way of understanding things just doesnít work that way). But I have friends apparently who do. They tell me that quantum mechanics is. I believe them even though I have no way personally of confirming or denying. I trust what they tell me.

    I donít know shite about God (for whatever reason, my way of understanding things just doesnít work that way either). But I have friends apparently who do. They tell me God is. I donít believe them even though I have no way personally of confirming or denying. I do not trust what they tell me.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    I donít know shite about quantum mechanics (for whatever reason, my way of understanding things just doesnít work that way). But I have friends apparently who do. They tell me that quantum mechanics is. I believe them even though I have no way personally of confirming or denying. I trust what they tell me.

    I donít know shite about God (for whatever reason, my way of understanding things just doesnít work that way either). But I have friends apparently who do. They tell me God is. I donít believe them even though I have no way personally of confirming or denying. I do not trust what they tell me.
    I'm not sure why you're equating a belief in quantum mechanics with a belief in God. Quantum mechanics, for those keeping score at home, was a branch of physics first identified by Albert Einstein. But he wrote it off as patently absurd and therefore he must be wrong. And then died before he had a chance to delve into it further. Subsequent scientists have since validated his work. What he initially thought was too absurd to be real turned out to be very real indeed.

    So what it quantum mechanics: It's that things work differently on the subatomic level (quantum) than they do in the larger atomic levels. We don't know why. And scientists are working on one unifying theory, dubbed the Theory of Everything, that might offer a common explaining on how everything -- in the subatomic and atomic levels. works. Right now there are separate theories (scientific explanations, not estimated guesses) for atomic and subatomic particles. The Holy Grail is one theory that can explain it all.

    To do that, we'll need to get a better understanding of why subatomic particles behave the way they do. Right now we simply do not know.

    It's that "we don't know" part that encourages believers in God to use quantum mechanics as that "ah hah!" moment. How can one tiny subatomic particle be in two places at the same time when unobserved but behave more rationally when we are looking? Crazy stuff!

    But no, none of this requires any influence by a God.
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears Ė but they seem kinda sensible...."

  5. #125
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    I was comparing my faith in people.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Again, why do you think you're the only person on PSD who understands religion and spirituality. You bring this high and mighty attitude to every conversation about religion. You know what religion really is and everyone else is dumb.

    As for clarification, answer these questions:

    Are you saying that the Greeks didn't believe in the Greek Gods?

    Do you believe they did not believe that there was a God Apollo?

    Do you think they believed that all of the Gods were metaphorical and not real?
    I dont think I'm the only person who understands spirituality, nor do I think that makes me high and mighty. However I do clearly have a better understanding than you, and most atheists. Which is usually why they're atheist to begin with, lol

    See, somehow over the past few generations we went from religious people with no scientific understanding thinking they should be the ones to go around and talk about science, to scientific people with no understanding of religion thinking they should be the ones to go around and talk about religion. And from that arises this modern atheist movement, a movement essentially created out of ignorance.

    If you were talking to someone about science, and telling them how we used to be gerbils, and they respond that your whole evolution theory is bs because they never saw a gerbil give birth to a human, would responding to and breaking down his argument mean you feel high and mighty? Or do you just know information he doesn't, and you are trying to share that with him? You have a better understanding of a particular topic than him..

    It's a fine line, dont take my posts as sounding high and mighty, I do think bluntness, while not the kindest, is most productive for the conversation.
    Last edited by nastynice; 07-17-2019 at 02:43 PM.
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    I donít know shite about quantum mechanics (for whatever reason, my way of understanding things just doesnít work that way). But I have friends apparently who do. They tell me that quantum mechanics is. I believe them even though I have no way personally of confirming or denying. I trust what they tell me.

    I donít know shite about God (for whatever reason, my way of understanding things just doesnít work that way either). But I have friends apparently who do. They tell me God is. I donít believe them even though I have no way personally of confirming or denying. I do not trust what they tell me.
    Why use quantum mechanics as an example? Why not single digit addition? Does someone who doesn't entirely understand math, yet accepts it, doing so based on faith?

    Science is self correcting, the fact that that you would trust science GUARANTEES that at points in time you will accept false information/knowledge as true.
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Why use quantum mechanics as an example? Why not single digit addition? Does someone who doesn't entirely understand math, yet accepts it, doing so based on faith?

    Science is self correcting, the fact that that you would trust science GUARANTEES that at points in time you will accept false information/knowledge as true.
    Maybe. It's still the best way to know what's true.
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears Ė but they seem kinda sensible...."

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Maybe. It's still the best way to know what's true.
    Sure that's fine, but how could this be labeled as faith if that's the case?

    It's not faith, its science. It's just what is around us, I dont see where faith is required.
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Why use quantum mechanics as an example? Why not single digit addition? Does someone who doesn't entirely understand math, yet accepts it, doing so based on faith?

    Science is self correcting, the fact that that you would trust science GUARANTEES that at points in time you will accept false information/knowledge as true.
    You also missed my point. It was not about God or Quantum Mechanics. It was not intended to compare the two or to equate the two.

    It was about the human factor. It was about the distinction between my trust in one representative group over another.

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    You also missed my point. It was not about God or Quantum Mechanics. It was not intended to compare the two or to equate the two.

    It was about the human factor. It was about the distinction between my trust in one representative group over another.
    No I understand that, but what I'm getting at is your example sounds ridiculous when we replace quantum mechanics with something simple, theres no faith required because science is simply observation along with our best understanding of it.

    Essentially you are creating an argument to justify your appeal to authority in science. To me that's just a bad approach for debate, period. Wether you are arguing for religion, for science, etc I dont think using appeal to authority is ever a good approach, regardless which side you're on.
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    No I understand that, but what I'm getting at is your example sounds ridiculous when we replace quantum mechanics with something simple, theres no faith required because science is simply observation along with our best understanding of it.
    No, you donít understand my point.

    I am not trying to shove the authority of science down anyoneís throat. Nor am I doing the opposite for God.

    With things I do not comprehend (I understand simple addition) I am saying that I trust what some people say is true and I do not trust what other people say is true.

    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Essentially you are creating an argument to justify your appeal to authority in science. To me that's just a bad approach for debate, period. Wether you are arguing for religion, for science, etc I dont think using appeal to authority is ever a good approach, regardless which side you're on.
    Call it what you will, I am seeking to explain (obviously poorly) the nature of my relationship to and interaction with the world as I find it.

    One poster chided me for it, saying all I was doing was trying to bring attention to myself. Another basically said I was out to offend people. Another said the inquiry didnít belong in this forum.

    So be it. Iím out of here.
    Last edited by Crovash; 07-17-2019 at 04:17 PM.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    No, you donít understand my point.

    I am not trying to shove the authority of science down anyoneís throat. Nor am I doing the opposite for God.

    With things I do not comprehend (I understand simple addition) I am saying that I trust what some people say is true and I do not trust what other people say is true.



    Call it what you will, I am seeking to explain (obviously poorly) the nature of my relationship to and interaction with the world as I find it.

    One poster chided me for it, saying all I was doing was trying to bring attention to myself. Another basically said I was out to offend people. Another said the inquiry didnít belong in this forum.

    So be it. Iím out of here.
    Yes, that is appeal to authority. I didn't mean to say you are trying to shove it down someone's throat, if that's just how you operate that's fine. I do the same.
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    I dont think I'm the only person who understands spirituality, nor do I think that makes me high and mighty. However I do clearly have a better understanding than you, and most atheists. Which is usually why they're atheist to begin with, lol

    See, somehow over the past few generations we went from religious people with no scientific understanding thinking they should be the ones to go around and talk about science, to scientific people with no understanding of religion thinking they should be the ones to go around and talk about religion. And from that arises this modern atheist movement, a movement essentially created out of ignorance.

    If you were talking to someone about science, and telling them how we used to be gerbils, and they respond that your whole evolution theory is bs because they never saw a gerbil give birth to a human, would responding to and breaking down his argument mean you feel high and mighty? Or do you just know information he doesn't, and you are trying to share that with him? You have a better understanding of a particular topic than him..

    It's a fine line, dont take my posts as sounding high and mighty, I do think bluntness, while not the kindest, is most productive for the conversation.


    I'm not high and mighty, I just know more than you. Hopefully your knowledge of religion is not as robust as your self awareness, of which you have none.

    Just because you are Muslim doesn't mean you know about all other religions, you are not suddenly an expert on Greek mythology and religion, so stop pretending you are.

    As for how much of an understanding you have, so far it is absolutely zero, since you have for the second time refused to answer my questions, I will post them again in the hopes that you can climb off your high horse long enough to answer them out of your comprehensive knowledge of religion, since I as am an atheist am doomed to be ignorant and stupid on the subject without you to hold my hand:

    Are you saying that the Greeks didn't believe in the Greek Gods?

    Do you believe they did not believe that there was a God Apollo?

    Do you think they believed that all of the Gods were metaphorical and not real?


    Once you answer those questions, perhaps you'd be kind enough (if you have time, I know you're very busy educating all the stupid atheists around the world who are incapable of comprehending religion) to explain what your religiosity argument in this context even means. What are you actually saying? That I have a fundamental misunderstanding of Greek mythology because I believe they believed in it?

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    I dont think I'm the only person who understands spirituality, nor do I think that makes me high and mighty. However I do clearly have a better understanding than you, and most atheists. Which is usually why they're atheist to begin with, lol

    See, somehow over the past few generations we went from religious people with no scientific understanding thinking they should be the ones to go around and talk about science, to scientific people with no understanding of religion thinking they should be the ones to go around and talk about religion. And from that arises this modern atheist movement, a movement essentially created out of ignorance.

    If you were talking to someone about science, and telling them how we used to be gerbils, and they respond that your whole evolution theory is bs because they never saw a gerbil give birth to a human, would responding to and breaking down his argument mean you feel high and mighty? Or do you just know information he doesn't, and you are trying to share that with him? You have a better understanding of a particular topic than him..

    It's a fine line, dont take my posts as sounding high and mighty, I do think bluntness, while not the kindest, is most productive for the conversation.
    Lol, woo boy! How did I let this one get away? Atheism is a movement created out of ignorance? Wow. You just may have won the award for the most ironic statement of the year!

    Atheism is a movement created when people got tired of society's assumption that there is a God; that God represented all things good; That having faith in God was the only way to lead a good lifestyle; And that not believing in God was one of most evil traits a person could have.

    That in a nutshell is why so many of us are unabashed atheists, But ok, make your point: Why do you think modern atheism movement born out of ignorance?
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears Ė but they seem kinda sensible...."

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