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Thread: Polytheism

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    Play along? No, I expect rational people, like nasty and foc, to explain — rationally — why my point was incorrect, which I have admitted now four times, but if you want to keep harping on it day after day, hey, knock yourself out.
    I did rationally explain why you are incorrect, you just didn't like my approach. Not my problem. I just don't feel the need to be as polite or long-winded as others. Probably because I don't feel the need to entertain nonsense.

    "there's no scraps in my scrapbook"

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Mechanical process meaning it is entirely based on observation. There is no emotion involved in this process. If h2o is repetitively boiling at 100 degrees then it simply is what it is, cant just start fudging the info because of positive or negative feelings toward water.

    What does "you cannot do what you say you can" mean?
    It means you could not have reached a conclusion that God exists unless youre equating "reached a conclusion"
    with formulating an opinion.

    If thats what you're saying, we're fine.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by spliff(TONE) View Post
    I did rationally explain why you are incorrect, you just didn't like my approach. Not my problem. I just don't feel the need to be as polite or long-winded as others. Probably because I don't feel the need to entertain nonsense.
    You are right.

    I don’t like your approach any more than you like mine.
    Last edited by Crovash; 07-08-2019 at 11:47 AM.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    It means you could not have reached a conclusion that God exists unless youre equating "reached a conclusion"
    with formulating an opinion.

    If thats what you're saying, we're fine.
    Sure, we can call it an opinion based on facts

    Isn't that what global warming is? I could be wrong..
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  5. #65
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    I’m just thinking out loud now.

    According to Wikipedia, “Religion is a cultural system of designated behaviors and practices, morals, worldviews, texts, sanctified places, prophecies, ethics, or organizations, that relates humanity to supernatural, transcendental, or spiritual elements.”

    In terms of science, maybe quantum physics offers a glimpse in those latter elements, though it does not offer any hint of how that relates to humanity.

    Not sure about The Gaia Theory.

    The article goes on to offer this qualification: “However, there is no scholarly consensus over what precisely constitutes a religion.” Not surprising.

    As for faith, I posted earlier that,

    “In the general sense...faith [is] a belief without evidence.”

    In “the context of religion...faith [is] trust in a particular system of religious belief, [and] within [this system] faith may equate to confidence based on some perceived degree of warrant.”

    Warrant is the tough word here. It means authorization, guarantee, or sanction.

    So, from whom or what does the authorization come? If by the specifics of that “particular system of religious belief”, isn’t that like a circularity?

    I have faith in [fill in the blank] because it is a teaching of my religion that I have to have faith in [fill in the blank].
    Last edited by Crovash; 07-08-2019 at 11:39 AM.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    I’m just thinking out loud now.

    According to Wikipedia, “Religion is a cultural system of designated behaviors and practices, morals, worldviews, texts, sanctified places, prophecies, ethics, or organizations, that relates humanity to supernatural, transcendental, or spiritual elements.”

    In terms of science, maybe quantum physics offers a glimpse in those latter elements, though it does not offer any hint of how that relates to humanity.

    Not sure about The Gaia Theory.

    The article goes on to offer this qualification: “However, there is no scholarly consensus over what precisely constitutes a religion.” Not surprising.

    As for faith, I posted earlier that,

    “In the general sense...faith [is] a belief without evidence.”

    In “the context of religion...faith [is] trust in a particular system of religious belief, [and] within [this system] faith may equate to confidence based on some perceived degree of warrant.”

    Warrant is the tough word here. It means authorization, guarantee, or sanction.

    So, from whom or what does the authorization come? If by the specifics of that “particular system of religious belief”, isn’t that like a circularity?

    I have faith in [fill in the blank] because it is a teaching of my religion that I have to have faith in [fill in the blank].
    According to these definitions then maybe my belief in islam isnt based on faith.

    The main reason I'm Muslim is because I was born muslim. I don't think what I was born into necessarily gives me a perceived degree of warrant, I could have just as easily been born into something else.

    My main reasons for belief in my religion is that's what I'm comfortable with since that's how I grew up, and also because it makes a lot of sense and seems to have a lot of useful and powerful knowledge within it. That doesn't seem too faith based, according to your definition
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    According to these definitions then maybe my belief in islam isnt based on faith.

    The main reason I'm Muslim is because I was born muslim. I don't think what I was born into necessarily gives me a perceived degree of warrant, I could have just as easily been born into something else.

    My main reasons for belief in my religion is that's what I'm comfortable with since that's how I grew up, and also because it makes a lot of sense and seems to have a lot of useful and powerful knowledge within it. That doesn't seem too faith based, according to your definition
    Bear with me. I am cobbling together definitions that I have found — they are by no means definitive.

    The issue of faith is the one I’m having trouble with.

    I get it that folks believe lots of different things, and in the realm of the religious (“relating humanity to supernatural, transcendental, or spiritual elements”) that those element take on a rich variety of forms. I have no such beliefs.

    But how exactly is it that “religion/faith” are yoked — as an earlier poster wrote?

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    According to these definitions then maybe my belief in islam isnt based on faith.

    The main reason I'm Muslim is because I was born muslim. I don't think what I was born into necessarily gives me a perceived degree of warrant, I could have just as easily been born into something else.

    My main reasons for belief in my religion is that's what I'm comfortable with since that's how I grew up, and also because it makes a lot of sense and seems to have a lot of useful and powerful knowledge within it. That doesn't seem too faith based, according to your definition
    Maybe that’s just how things turn out, one generation after another.

    I was raised by an avowed atheist — my father — who after my mother’s death at the age of 37, never set foot in a church again, and neither did I until I got out of college.

    I was too young to remember if my mother was in any way religious. I do remember her funeral took place in a church — that’s about it.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    Bear with me. I am cobbling together definitions that I have found — they are by no means definitive.

    The issue of faith is the one I’m having trouble with.

    I get it that folks believe lots of different things, and in the realm of the religious (“relating humanity to supernatural, transcendental, or spiritual elements”) that those element take on a rich variety of forms. I have no such beliefs.

    But how exactly is it that “religion/faith” are yoked — as an earlier poster wrote?
    Yoked?
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    (

    Maybe that’s just how things turn out, one generation after another.

    I was raised by an avowed atheist — my father — who after my mother’s death at the age of 37, never set foot in a church again, and neither did I until I got out of college.

    I was too young to remember if my mother was in any way religious. I do remember her funeral took place in a church — that’s about it.
    Man, that's a heavy one. Sounds too young.

    Rest in peace
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Yoked?
    He wrote “You are an atheist that puts value in science above religion/faith.” He is right about the first part, but I questioned the “religion/faith” combination.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Sure, we can call it an opinion based on facts

    Isn't that what global warming is? I could be wrong..
    Well, facts support a conclusion of man-made global wsrming. They do not support a God conclusion.

    Gonna have to admit, sincerely, that you put forth a fascinating argument. I disagree, of course. But of the many arguments I've heard, yours might be the most fascinating.

    Because while facts do not support a God conclusion, a lack of facts do. Heck, a lack of facts can support any conclusion. Still, i admit yours is still the most fascinating.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    He wrote “You are an atheist that puts value in science above religion/faith.” He is right about the first part, but I questioned the “religion/faith” combination.
    Oh I meant what's that word mean?

    I don't know the meaning of yoked.
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Well, facts support a conclusion of man-made global wsrming. They do not support a God conclusion.

    Gonna have to admit, sincerely, that you put forth a fascinating argument. I disagree, of course. But of the many arguments I've heard, yours might be the most fascinating.

    Because while facts do not support a God conclusion, a lack of facts do. Heck, a lack of facts can support any conclusion. Still, i admit yours is still the most fascinating.
    Of course I disagree about it supporting a God conclusion, as I myself have reached this conclusion, but sure, not everyone thinks like me, I cant necessarily say the way I think is the objectively correct way. It's just how I truly see and understand things around me.

    Yes its definitely going to be a lack of facts which support my conclusion, as the presence of facts, observable in the natural world, would oppose my conclusion, as it would render what I claimed to be supernatural as simply natural.
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Of course I disagree about it supporting a God conclusion, as I myself have reached this conclusion, but sure, not everyone thinks like me, I cant necessarily say the way I think is the objectively correct way. It's just how I truly see and understand things around me.

    Yes its definitely going to be a lack of facts which support my conclusion, as the presence of facts, observable in the natural world, would oppose my conclusion, as it would render what I claimed to be supernatural as simply natural.
    #respect

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