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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obabikon View Post
    Here's a legitimate question...


    If the Cardinals trade for Mad Bum, should we be happy or upset?
    Depends on what we give up for him seeing that he is a rental. Plus half the league will be asking about him so the Giants have leverage on that front. He has a limited NTC and I am not sure where the Cards stand on his list.

    MadBum would be that A personality type this team needs to light a fire under the teams butt. I doubt the Cardinals pull it off. I can see the Cardinals asking Toronto about Stroman. Half of the league is close in the WC so the next few weeks will be telling as to who will be selling/buying.
    Last edited by cards7; 07-11-2019 at 12:26 PM.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obabikon View Post
    Here's a legitimate question...


    If the Cardinals trade for Mad Bum, should we be happy or upset?
    I don't think he's really any better than Austin Gomber, not gonna lie (since the beginning of 2017 - 3.53 ERA, 3.95 FIP, in 352 innings 99 -FIP). But I think he's a far better competitor and would fight like Chris Carpenter for us through the playoffs, something a rookie isn't going to be able to do.

    What's that willpower worth? Probably quite a bit.

    I don't think the demands for Bumgarner are going to be nearly as high as the Giants want though.


    Honestly though, I see him going to the Braves.


    Too many people are remembering Bumgarner because of his playoff talents from years ago. And he's young enough to have not lost it yet. But he is pretty much an average starter right now.

    I also think he's a mental midget who gets pissed off at others over nothing.

    But, I wouldn't be upset to have him in our weakened rotation down the stretch, especially with his competitive spirit. Add in that he shouldn't cost us much more than Arozenoa and maybe a AA starter. He's probably worth it.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by cards7 View Post
    Depends on what we give up for him seeing that he is a rental. Plus half the league will be asking about him so the Giants have leverage on that front. He has a limited NTC and I am not sure where the Cards stand on his list.

    MadBum would be that A personality type this team needs to light a fire under the teams butt. I doubt the Cardinals pull it off. I can see the Cardinals asking Toronto about Stroman. Half of the league is close in the WC so the next few weeks will be telling as to who will be selling/buying.
    I think he declines all trade requests except to Atlanta, where he negotiates an extension before accepting the trade.

  4. #64
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    Oct 2017
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    I also don't think that Mad Bum is very helpful. If he could still hit, he always added some value there.


    I asked the question, because I honestly wasn't sure how I'd feel about it. We could use help in the rotation, for sure. Carlos gives us flexibility... if a closer becomes available. Cardinals are actually positioned pretty well to add a player or two in order to improve the 2019 squad.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obabikon View Post
    I also don't think that Mad Bum is very helpful. If he could still hit, he always added some value there.


    I asked the question, because I honestly wasn't sure how I'd feel about it. We could use help in the rotation, for sure. Carlos gives us flexibility... if a closer becomes available. Cardinals are actually positioned pretty well to add a player or two in order to improve the 2019 squad.
    For sure. I'd prefer any player we acquire to also be under control for 2020. But, I guess with so many roster spots becoming open in 2020 right now, it might make sense if we ended up starting a rebuild to not have a 2020 roster controlled player at the deadline (like a major piece).

  6. #66
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    Yep, rebuild
    2019

    QB-Lock
    RB-Montgomery
    WR-AJ Brown, Hakeem Butler
    TE-TJ Hockenson
    Edge-Allen
    LB-Devon White, Blake Cashman
    CB-Joejuan Williams
    S-Dieonte Thompson

  7. #67
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    The team apparently wants Will Smith, which is great and all. But a few things.

    1. Our bullpen isn't our weak spot this year
    2. What would we realistically give up for him? The prospects they'd want, we wouldn't want to part with. And the one's we'd want to give them, they wouldn't want. Tyler O'Neill would make the most sense, but he's been struggling in Memphis and is supposed to be taking Ozuna's spot next year. Maybe they extend Ozuna, maybe they rebuild, maybe O'Neill ends up sucking.

    Arozenoa is really the only other piece that makes sense, and other teams would easily be able to give the Giants a better player than that.

    We need a starter. Our rotation isn't helping, and the offense is all playing below expectations. It's hard to know what offensive upgrade we could actually pursue on the roster. No positions make any sense because everyone is sucking.

  8. #68
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    We need to rebuild/retool. Good players, but they don't play off of each other. Only play I would say is safe is DeJong.

    Sell off Ozuna, Wong, Fowler - who i think we could trade now. Then in the offseason, I'd look to shop Carp or Goldy. I understand Carp has a no trade clause, but that doesn't mean he wont accept a trade.

    At some point we have to pick a direction. We arent going to win anything. We may compete, but we aren't winning anything anytime soon with this mess.

    I'd also look into shopping CMart and JMart.
    2019

    QB-Lock
    RB-Montgomery
    WR-AJ Brown, Hakeem Butler
    TE-TJ Hockenson
    Edge-Allen
    LB-Devon White, Blake Cashman
    CB-Joejuan Williams
    S-Dieonte Thompson

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapjuicer06 View Post
    We need to rebuild/retool. Good players, but they don't play off of each other. Only play I would say is safe is DeJong.

    Sell off Ozuna, Wong, Fowler - who i think we could trade now. Then in the offseason, I'd look to shop Carp or Goldy. I understand Carp has a no trade clause, but that doesn't mean he wont accept a trade.

    At some point we have to pick a direction. We arent going to win anything. We may compete, but we aren't winning anything anytime soon with this mess.

    I'd also look into shopping CMart and JMart.

    They aren't going to rebuild 2 games out of first place in July.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    They aren't going to rebuild 2 games out of first place in July.
    They should
    2019

    QB-Lock
    RB-Montgomery
    WR-AJ Brown, Hakeem Butler
    TE-TJ Hockenson
    Edge-Allen
    LB-Devon White, Blake Cashman
    CB-Joejuan Williams
    S-Dieonte Thompson

  11. #71
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    Jun 2017
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    michael conforto intrigues me. he seems like a career .250 hitter as that what his current averages say but his opb for his career is one hundred points higher than that.

    under control for two more years after this, gives him two more years to expand his game and gives us 2.5 years of a relatively cheap cost controlled bat.


    of course jeffy will tell us all that it will take our entire farm system to get him

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farty Farts View Post
    michael conforto intrigues me. he seems like a career .250 hitter as that what his current averages say but his opb for his career is one hundred points higher than that.

    under control for two more years after this, gives him two more years to expand his game and gives us 2.5 years of a relatively cheap cost controlled bat.


    of course jeffy will tell us all that it will take our entire farm system to get him
    1. The Met's just did an all-in off-season, so if they are trading away guys with control beyond 2019, they will need to be really impressed with the offers.

    2. Since 2017, Conforto has a 9.0 fWAR, which is 17th best among all outfielders. He's a good player, and entering his prime.

    3. He isn't really any better than Ozuna, and can't play center. We could certainly use him in right though, but with Fowler, Martinez, O'Neill all in the fold, it would be difficult to figure out who we are shipping out to make this work. But it would probably cost Carlson to start.


    4. You are damn right it's going to cost a ton to get him. He's gonna cost almost exactly what we gave up to get Ozuna. Similar player value, similar years of control left, similar position, etc, etc. Btw, the consensus in the community was that we didn't give up very much for Ozuna, though in hindsight that appears to be the reversed case. But this might be too light of a deal to get again.

    Alcantara was our 4th best prospect, and a FV of 50
    Gallen was our 12th best prospect, and a FV of 40+
    Sierra wasn't listed as a prospect due to service time
    Castanao was outside our top 30 prospects, but he pitched pretty well in low A as a 22 year old

    The equivalent trade would be
    Dylan Carlson, Griffin Roberts, Lane Thomas, and Edgar Escobar

    Conforto takes over in left in 2020, with Fowler and Martinez and O'Neill all fighting for right field.

    I don't hate the trade. We need some long term solutions in the outfield. That said, I like Carlson a lot and think he could make the roster as early as late summer of 2020.
    Last edited by Jeffy25; 07-12-2019 at 07:26 PM.

  13. #73
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    I wonder if they'd let Carlson potentially win a full time outfield job to start 2020?

  14. #74
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    Jun 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    1. The Met's just did an all-in off-season, so if they are trading away guys with control beyond 2019, they will need to be really impressed with the offers.

    2. Since 2017, Conforto has a 9.0 fWAR, which is 17th best among all outfielders. He's a good player, and entering his prime.

    3. He isn't really any better than Ozuna, and can't play center. We could certainly use him in right though, but with Fowler, Martinez, O'Neill all in the fold, it would be difficult to figure out who we are shipping out to make this work. But it would probably cost Carlson to start.


    4. You are damn right it's going to cost a ton to get him. He's gonna cost almost exactly what we gave up to get Ozuna. Similar player value, similar years of control left, similar position, etc, etc. Btw, the consensus in the community was that we didn't give up very much for Ozuna, though in hindsight that appears to be the reversed case. But this might be too light of a deal to get again.

    Alcantara was our 4th best prospect, and a FV of 50
    Gallen was our 12th best prospect, and a FV of 40+
    Sierra wasn't listed as a prospect due to service time
    Castanao was outside our top 30 prospects, but he pitched pretty well in low A as a 22 year old

    The equivalent trade would be
    Dylan Carlson, Griffin Roberts, Lane Thomas, and Edgar Escobar

    Conforto takes over in left in 2020, with Fowler and Martinez and O'Neill all fighting for right field.

    I don't hate the trade. We need some long term solutions in the outfield. That said, I like Carlson a lot and think he could make the roster as early as late summer of 2020.

    i dont know. their gm was quoted as saying they are going to try to win in 2020 but also look to the future. citing guys like degrom, smith, mcneil and alonso as their core.

    i'd be more willing to move carlson over gorman. neither may amount to poo but gorman has significantly more potential.

    you can move fowler now. yes he has to waive his ntc, yes you have to eat some money but he can be moved.

    o'neill....the canadian mounty isnt even hitting in the minors this year

    martinez is a replacement level player, he isnt a starter.

    you move fowler eventually, you move wong.

    you get conforto

    you free up some cash to get an arm in the winter

    edman
    dejong
    conforto
    goldie
    ozuna (yes resign)
    carp
    molina
    who cares. if its carlson, great, if its bader......probably can find someone better.

    give edman the shot this year to break camp next year as the starter at 2nd

    if he fails sign didi and use edman as the utility guy giving guys at least one extra day off every two weeks or so (over 12-14 games, he'll play 8 times. didi can spell dejong at ss when he gets his day off, edman can spell carp and didi, carp can spell goldie)

  15. #75
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    Apr 2016
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    514
    Quote Originally Posted by rapjuicer06 View Post
    They should
    Damn right they should. This team is not going to be any better next year either....probably worse. But....what are u going to get for anyone on this roster? Teams in the mlb are getting smarter for not giving up their top prospects , unlike when the cubs rapped and pillaged for some big pieces of their current team. Dont know what the answer is but its definitely not this current roster. And not much of anything great in the minors is just a dumpster fire ready to explode. A lot of average or mediocre years coming. Reminds me of the 1990's.

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