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  1. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    basically it over values the **** out of 3 point shooters and close to the basket shooters like a deandre jordan etc


    just take a look at the all time leaders

    https://www.basketball-reference.com...ct_career.html
    It doesn't overvalue anything. Its math.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  2. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by tredigs View Post
    Christ.

    No dummy, the "57% TS" on 27 PPG was the stat I gave you when you REMOVE his best statistical game from the Finals (the thing you went on about as to the only reason his stats looked good, remember?). Which, by the way, is still a higher volume and more efficient than the career Finals scoring production of Lebron and Kobe (now let's remove their best game from each Finals and further compare?).

    @Ewing, I did respond to what you wrote, the person who did not was you. The better question is whether or not you ever make a post worth responding to. Or ever make a rebuttal worth listening to. You stick to single sentence hot-takes with no stats/analysis. You should be happy you get acknowledged at all.
    you are right about one thing. I did not respond to what I wrote. I'm not Kevin Durrant. Anyway, lets both outline my takes and dispel some of yours:

    1) Curry is a truly great scorer and a heck of a player
    2) Like all great scorers he gets extra attention from defensive. The defense generally tries to take away his spots. Unlike most great scorers his spots are further out on the floor so the extra attention is also away from the basket. Instead of a corner 3 b/c of an extra defender in the paint you might get an open back cut b/c two guys followed him off a pin down. His gravity score doesn't mean he get the more attention if it did Kover would probably me the second most defended guy in the league
    3) I don't give KL credit for being a great play maker when Danny Green is left alone in the corner b/c his defender is parked in the paint trying to stop a Lenard drive before it happens. I'm not going give Curry credit for being a great play maker b/c his presence draws D either.
    4) Unlike most great scorers Curry is not great at staring down a set defense and getting his.
    5) in the playoffs timely scoring and timely defense is more important. You will wind up in close games that are decided to by key half court possessions. Neither of these things are what Curry is known for
    6) Curry has gotten better is these spots but it still isn't a strength and its what stops him from being a top 15 player b/c of his offense.

    Btw I really do think he has gotten better. Yes better then he was when he had his best regular season and the Warriors beat up on the league for a full regular season (he's stronger, better on the drive, better at drawing fouls, smarter). He controlled the games against Houston. At the same time he did get out gunned in the 4th quarter of a close out game in the NBA finals by Fred Van Vleet. I don't see this ever happening to MJ matched against a Hubert Davis type or LeBron versus an Allen Crabbe, Hakeem versus a Jared Collins.... you want to be in that group as an offensive weapon you have to be a better go to scorer then he has shown thus far.

    Feel free to respond by only addressing his overall efficiency and ingorning the holes in his game and by claiming that things like gravity are reflective of him getting more attention then other stars or being proof of his ability as a play maker
    Last edited by ewing; 06-25-2019 at 09:12 AM.
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  3. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    It doesn't overvalue anything. Its math.

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    sure the stat is math but what the stat represents is exactly what is overvalued... Its a shooting stat that is getting used a ton as an end all be all esp when it comes to curry and overvalues him as an NBA player because we ignore his lack of defense because of how great a shooter he is.

  4. #364
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    My issues with TS% are well documented in the annals of PSD lore. It's a fantastic freaking stat and the single best stat to measure shooting efficiency that we have, but it should never be used ALONE to measure efficiency.

    Edit: and I guess this isn't an issue with the stat per say and more about how it is used (IndyRealist would be quick to point this out to me).
    Last edited by Vee-Rex; 06-25-2019 at 10:05 AM.

  5. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    sure the stat is math but what the stat represents is exactly what is overvalued... Its a shooting stat that is getting used a ton as an end all be all esp when it comes to curry and overvalues him as an NBA player because we ignore his lack of defense because of how great a shooter he is.
    I think the evening of the scales is coming. If the numbers come out the same without a dream team cast we will all bow down but I'm not anticipating that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  6. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    sure the stat is math but what the stat represents is exactly what is overvalued... Its a shooting stat that is getting used a ton as an end all be all esp when it comes to curry and overvalues him as an NBA player because we ignore his lack of defense because of how great a shooter he is.
    I think it is a good stat and does show how great an offensive weapon Curry is. I do think people make the assumption that someone that scores efficiently is generally consistent. I don't think that is true. We see it with guys like Danny Green and Robert Covenington especially. They are streaky 3 points shooters that always average out to a solid % from behind the line. Their 3 point % and TS% lead people to believe they are dependable shooters but they really aren't b/c they both go through prolong cold and hot streaks
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    My dick is named 'Ewing'.

  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    I think it is a good stat and does show how great an offensive weapon Curry is. I do think people make the assumption that someone that scores efficiently is generally consistent. I don't think that is true. We see it with guys like Danny Green and Robert Covenington especially. They are streaky 3 points shooters that always average out to a solid % from behind the line. Their 3 point % and TS% lead people to believe they are dependable shooters but they really aren't b/c they both go through prolong cold and hot streaks
    Agreed.

    And roleplayers not being streaky usually isn't as critical as first bananas not being streaky.

  8. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    sure the stat is math but what the stat represents is exactly what is overvalued... Its a shooting stat that is getting used a ton as an end all be all esp when it comes to curry and overvalues him as an NBA player because we ignore his lack of defense because of how great a shooter he is.
    It represents scoring efficiency, scoring efficiency matters. It mattered long before Curry. Nothing is overrated or over valued, maybe you just suck at refuting its importance and get mad at the truth.

  9. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    It represents scoring efficiency, scoring efficiency matters. It mattered long before Curry. Nothing is overrated or over valued, maybe you just suck at refuting its importance and get mad at the truth.
    considering we are using TS to justify why he is the best player on his team in the finals that 100 percent shows just how correct i am with how this stat is overvalued ESP when it comes to curry... Curry is an amazing shooter but that is also benefited by the fact he expunges next to no stamina on defense while a klay was just as good but is normally asked to guard the other teams best player when KD isn't around... The same with KD by the way who is up there with curry in TS but is always guarding the lebron james of the world etc.... This is why 2 way play should be praised over just a great shooter who was yet again the 2nd or 3rd best player on his team in the finals.

  10. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    I think it is a good stat and does show how great an offensive weapon Curry is. I do think people make the assumption that someone that scores efficiently is generally consistent. I don't think that is true. We see it with guys like Danny Green and Robert Covenington especially. They are streaky 3 points shooters that always average out to a solid % from behind the line. Their 3 point % and TS% lead people to believe they are dependable shooters but they really aren't b/c they both go through prolong cold and hot streaks
    I can't agree more

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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  11. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    .

    All I can say is for a number of us Raptor fans - and definitely NOT all - there was a feeling of relief that the good version of Curry did not show and that helped us. Of course based on history we had reason to anticipate it.




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    In my opinion the Toronto series was curry's best payoff series of his career.

    He had sexiers series, like those games where he be drilling 3's from everywhere, but this is his best overall series I've seen in his career. He ran the offense beyond what I thought he'd be capable of.
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  12. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    considering we are using TS to justify why he is the best player on his team in the finals that 100 percent shows just how correct i am with how this stat is overvalued ESP when it comes to curry... Curry is an amazing shooter but that is also benefited by the fact he expunges next to no stamina on defense while a klay was just as good but is normally asked to guard the other teams best player when KD isn't around... The same with KD by the way who is up there with curry in TS but is always guarding the lebron james of the world etc.... This is why 2 way play should be praised over just a great shooter who was yet again the 2nd or 3rd best player on his team in the finals.
    This is the exact opposite rationale you used to try and discredit Giannis's MVP and boost up Harden. Well except you are referencing the Finals which is completely foreign to Mr. Harden.

  13. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by More-Than-Most View Post
    Defense matters
    Unless you're talking about Harden vs Giannis.

  14. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAZZNC View Post
    Unless you're talking about Harden vs Giannis.
    nope giannis is the better defender but he also has a far far far better team around him to cover up for his limitations... Logic must hurt huh?

  15. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    you are right about one thing. I did not respond to what I wrote. I'm not Kevin Durrant. Anyway, lets both outline my takes and dispel some of yours:

    1) Curry is a truly great scorer and a heck of a player
    2) Like all great scorers he gets extra attention from defensive. The defense generally tries to take away his spots. Unlike most great scorers his spots are further out on the floor so the extra attention is also away from the basket. Instead of a corner 3 b/c of an extra defender in the paint you might get an open back cut b/c two guys followed him off a pin down. His gravity score doesn't mean he get the more attention if it did Kover would probably me the second most defended guy in the league
    3) I don't give KL credit for being a great play maker when Danny Green is left alone in the corner b/c his defender is parked in the paint trying to stop a Lenard drive before it happens. I'm not going give Curry credit for being a great play maker b/c his presence draws D either.
    4) Unlike most great scorers Curry is not great at staring down a set defense and getting his.
    5) in the playoffs timely scoring and timely defense is more important. You will wind up in close games that are decided to by key half court possessions. Neither of these things are what Curry is known for
    6) Curry has gotten better is these spots but it still isn't a strength and its what stops him from being a top 15 player b/c of his offense.

    Btw I really do think he has gotten better. Yes better then he was when he had his best regular season and the Warriors beat up on the league for a full regular season (he's stronger, better on the drive, better at drawing fouls, smarter). He controlled the games against Houston. At the same time he did get out gunned in the 4th quarter of a close out game in the NBA finals by Fred Van Vleet. I don't see this ever happening to MJ matched against a Hubert Davis type or LeBron versus an Allen Crabbe, Hakeem versus a Jared Collins.... you want to be in that group as an offensive weapon you have to be a better go to scorer then he has shown thus far.

    Feel free to respond by only addressing his overall efficiency and ingorning the holes in his game and by claiming that things like gravity are reflective of him getting more attention then other stars or being proof of his ability as a play maker

    Is there anyone (even Tre) who thinks Curry is a Top 15 player all-Time?

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