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  1. #16
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    Agree with Crewfan, your way out of control Miller. Lopez will be the same player he was this year if resigned and yes, some nights he hits 7 3's and other nights he goes 0-9. Snell was dead weight and like the 12th man, so there is no loss unless a pile of players get hurt. Mirotic was the main reason we lost to the Raptors. If we'd have benched him after game 2, we'd probably have won the series, so his loss doesn't matter either. I agree Bud was too stubborn and should have switched some thing around. Giving Wilson and Brown some minutes could have made the difference, we don't know.

    There is no guarantee that we get everybody else back, but it's a decent possibility and if we do, we will be one of the favorites to win the title next year. I suspect Middleton, Brogdon and Lopez will be back and hopefully Hill or someone similar on the MLE. Giannis gets better every year and that will happen again this year. I'm guessing his numbers won't change that much, but higher percentages from 3 an ft line is what I expect. Brogdon has also gotten better every year. His offensive improvement could peak out, but he'll get better defensively. DJ Wilson went from trash to a valuable player in 1 season. If he can make another jump like that this year, Bucks will win the title. Sterling could be better too.

    I suspect Middleton will get 5 years and $165 -$170 Mil, which is $20 -$25 Mil less than a 5 year max, but equals what others can give 4/140 plus $25 - 30 for 5th year. Hopefully by doing this the cap hit will be more like $28 Mil next season. You also need to remember that changing to Bud's system was a huge change for Kris, more than any other player. This year could be a lot better for him having a year in the system and an off season to work on his new role. I threw those numbers out above to show that it is possible to bring back all 4 of Midd, Brog, Lopez & Hill and that should be our goal. If all those guy's are signed, we have a great chance to win the title next season, baring some crazy moves in free agency by others.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by HacksawButch View Post
    Agree with Crewfan, your way out of control Miller. Lopez will be the same player he was this year if resigned and yes, some nights he hits 7 3's and other nights he goes 0-9. Snell was dead weight and like the 12th man, so there is no loss unless a pile of players get hurt. Mirotic was the main reason we lost to the Raptors. If we'd have benched him after game 2, we'd probably have won the series, so his loss doesn't matter either. I agree Bud was too stubborn and should have switched some thing around. Giving Wilson and Brown some minutes could have made the difference, we don't know.

    There is no guarantee that we get everybody else back, but it's a decent possibility and if we do, we will be one of the favorites to win the title next year. I suspect Middleton, Brogdon and Lopez will be back and hopefully Hill or someone similar on the MLE. Giannis gets better every year and that will happen again this year. I'm guessing his numbers won't change that much, but higher percentages from 3 an ft line is what I expect. Brogdon has also gotten better every year. His offensive improvement could peak out, but he'll get better defensively. DJ Wilson went from trash to a valuable player in 1 season. If he can make another jump like that this year, Bucks will win the title. Sterling could be better too.

    I suspect Middleton will get 5 years and $165 -$170 Mil, which is $20 -$25 Mil less than a 5 year max, but equals what others can give 4/140 plus $25 - 30 for 5th year. Hopefully by doing this the cap hit will be more like $28 Mil next season. You also need to remember that changing to Bud's system was a huge change for Kris, more than any other player. This year could be a lot better for him having a year in the system and an off season to work on his new role. I threw those numbers out above to show that it is possible to bring back all 4 of Midd, Brog, Lopez & Hill and that should be our goal. If all those guy's are signed, we have a great chance to win the title next season, baring some crazy moves in free agency by others.
    I disagree Mirotic was the main reason they lost. Lopez wasn't good after G1; Bledsoe stunk 80 percent of the series. Middleton couldn't stop Kawhi, neither could Giannis. Middleton expending that energy defensively made him inefficient offensively. There were numerous reasons for them losing. I mean Mirotic didn't play any meaningful minutes last two games. The move was benching Bledsoe for Hill that probably would have made the biggest difference.

  3. #18
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    I personally think all you guys have a good point. It is true that if we get our starters back we can still have a decent year. However Miller's point of acquiring d lo is so needed. We definitely need a better pg. Bledsoe is so much of a liabilty. Heck even Middleton which is to slow is not a true #2 guy on a championship team. Lopez is very good for our team but he always takes the vanishing page out of Bledsoe's book. And Brogdon is a good player but doesn't have that dynamic game about himself. So when we face a team that has length with 2 way capabilities and some lateral quickness we have serious problems. First they have the man power to overwhelm Giannis and if all these flaws come into play with our main guys we becomes so beatable.
    And Hacksaw made a great point of Bud not playing Brown and Wilson in the Toronto series. We got out coached. Bud should've put Brown on VanFleet to slow him down. He should've played Wilson with Middleton and Giannis. He could've took some of Middleton defense assignments on Leonard which allows him to be offensively fresh. And they could've caused more chaos defensively. Since we didn't have that one dynamic player that can take over a game.
    So if the Bucks do bring back all our starters we would need to add a cheap put the ball on the floor shot creator ( perfer a guard like Derrick Rose), sf/pf like jeff green or trevor ariza and pf/c like bobby portis or ut could Wilson and a backup center like Dedmond.
    However like I said earlier that our current staters can get us to the house (playoffs) but don't have the key to get us in the house (championship) without bench changes. Or adding a better guard or/and a dynamic player to our starting lineup!!
    Last edited by BUCK WILD!!; 06-25-2019 at 03:20 AM.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    Jesus christ dude. We won the most games in the nba last year and now if giannis misses a few more games we'll barely be scratching for the playoffs. This is still a good team. A couple different bounces or calls in game 3 and we might be nba champions.
    Giannis missed 10 games with us giving him days off for rest others were flu or sore knee or sore ankle. 10 games off we won 60. Give Giannis another 10+ or heck 20 games off we be barely 50 or 40 wins probably. Besides who knows if Brogdon foot holds up? Or if Middleton being out of shape always eventually gets a random injury.

    Heck we lost to Suns twice. lol Magic and Pistons beat us. Tons of garbage teams beat us with and without Giannis. So there's that. All in all Bledsoe is only a regular season player. Chokes in the playoffs. Brogdon slow plodder and the foot injury scares me to pay him. I'd like to have him back. But could get worse in the long run.

    Middleton you all know my stance on him. I would of traded him 2 or 3 years ago already. He's gonna cost to much to be the same inconsistent player we knew we had since he was on rookie scale contract. That's three starters I could care less about really.

    Lopez was a nice cheap addition. But could be just another guy we use a pick on to move later if we give him a 4 year deal. I don't see him making this many threes at a nice clip either. Also he's always been injuryprone with Nets. Also a slow plodder. Yeah gets his blocks and boxes out nicely. But once he starts fading its gonna be fast with age.

    As for Mirotic I could careless about him. If I knew he would of been injured almost right away. I would of just kept the 4 second round picks. Also yeah its nice we had most wins and being Bud's first year. But we seen this rodeo with him before with the HAWKS. He could be just a regular season coach. Once the spotlight is on, he's stubborn and doesn't change any game plans and then we lost and get out coach but Joe Smo.

    Yeah we let game 3 slip. But i'm sure 76ers fans saying same thing with Kawhi last second shot for the win as well. I just don't see any improvement on Bledsoe,Middleton,Brogdon on way more money. Lopez could be the same or worse. Hill could be gone possibly. Mirotic is for sure gone.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by HacksawButch View Post
    Agree with Crewfan, your way out of control Miller. Lopez will be the same player he was this year if resigned and yes, some nights he hits 7 3's and other nights he goes 0-9.



    I suspect Middleton will get 5 years and $165 -$170 Mil, which is $20 -$25 Mil less than a 5 year max, but equals what others can give 4/140 plus $25 - 30 for 5th year.

    Out of control? What the hell you talking about Willis? You got ESP? You think old man Lopez will be top notch for a few more seasons? I doubt it. Also i'm sure Horst will **** up and give him a 4 year deal for full MLE per year. He will fade after next season easily. Also other teams cant offer up 5 year deals for Middleton. Not sure where you came up with that other then maybe a typo.

    Also don't forget Lopez is 31 now and 7' tall. Tall guys don't last long. Also was injuryprone with Nets. Also doubt he keeps up with the 3pt% either. Him on super discount was great. But 4 years of a MLE. Yikes. Bad enough we may give Brogdon 4/$80M with bad feet. He had that foot injury in college. Whole reason he dropped to second round in the first place. Then he got the foot injury again. Besides he always misses games with other random stuff. Besides a slow plodder the way it is. That bad foot only gonna make him slower.

    Middleton on 5/$190M or whatever less is still way to much. Yeah its not my money. But him inconsistent and out of shape and defense fell off a season or two before he torn the muscle off the bone. Also he prefers longs twos over threes. Bud even benched him that Knicks game then they had a sit down and came to a agreement of letting him shoot long twos. But still his D is long gone and slow plodder cause he's fat and out of shape most of the season. Also seemed hung over that one game.

    If we lose Hill. Our bench will take a huge hit. Our cupboards are pretty bare as well for trades now. Keep your fingers crossed for vet minimum ring chasers. Just hope that they aren't washed up like Pau Gasol.

    A buddy and I were discussion a trade at work yesterday. All depends if Clippers want a little more wiggle room besides their two max cap slots. Since they have to renounce everyone they got to have both to begin with. Yeah they got Bird rights for Bev. But I was gonna suggest if Clippers were desperate for a little bit more cap. I'd try $16.5M expiring's in Leuer and Ersan for $22.6M Gallinari. $6.1M in savings. Not sure if thats legal but it is the offseason. I believe Leuer cant be traded yet though.

    So it probably holds up the Clippers free agency so doubt this would be done anyway. Besides us possibly landing Gallinari more less we wont have the MLE then for Lopez. Probably Hill be lost as well. Also near tax or over. Besides keeping Brogdon and Middleton. Then slide Giannis to center. Gallinari is a bit injuryprone as well. But gives us another guy that can fill it up each night. Since we cant always count on any of Bledsoe, Middleton, Brogdon.

    Seems two out of three of them have a stinker game any given night. Bad enough we had to count on Planet PAT to carry a larger load into the playoffs cause plenty of others took turns stinking it up or vanished. But Pat fell off and vanished as well eventually.

    Bledsoe,Brogdon,Middleton,Gallinari,Giannis

  6. #21
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    Lopez has played 11 years and only missed more than 10 games twice. Not sure how that gets the injury prone label. Plus, he's a guy who should age fairly well. Look at Marc gasol, who's 3 years older. I'm not advocating some crazy deal for lopez, but his game isn't built on athleticism, it's built on positioning. He should age okay.

    Bledsoe isn't terrible. He had a bad playoffs. He was also all defensive team and people in this forum were talkinf about how he's more important than middleton during the regular season. He's a good player.

    Your hatred for middleton is ridiculous. Is he perfect? No, but saying he's fat and out of shape yet still an all star is so dumb.

    Hill was great for us in the playoffs. But in the regular season he played only 47 games for us and averaged 7/2/2. Let's not act like losing him, which isn't even a forgone conclusion is going to be some irreplaceable detriment to this team. Id love to have him back, but hes far from irrepalcable.

  7. #22
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    Don't get me wrong, it would be cool to get Russell. But it's super unlikely. He's an RFA. The only way Brooklyn let's him walk is if they can land 2 other max guys and need to renounce his rights to do so. So unless that happens, he's a net. And if it does happen, hell have quite a few suitors, but I just don't see a real scenario where we can get him so I'm not going to write it off as a bad offseason if we don't.

  8. #23
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    At the end of the day we were one of the best teams in the league last year. The other great teams last year are unlikely to get much better. Best case scenario for Philly is basically bring back the same crew again with maybe a mid level shooter. So they will be marginally better at most. If Toronto brings back kawhi, they only have mid level money, so they aren't going to be much better. Golden state will be worse, even if everyone resigns. Portland, Denver and Houston will all be about the same. Boston will probably be worse. Indy will be better with Vic, but they aren't better than us, Philly and Toronto.

    The only teams that have a real shot at making the jump to contender status are LAL, maybe LAC and maybe Brooklyn. But even then. LAC making the leap means Toronto got worse. And Brooklyn making the leap probably means they got Durant who's no likely to play much, if at all, next year.

    I mean, if we bring the band back again next year, I don't see many scenarios where we stay healthy and aren't just as good as anyone, unless something truly weird happens this offseason. I'm not saying we are hands down favorites and shouldnt be trying to improve. But running it back with a similar roster would keep us at least in contention.

  9. #24
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    The Middleton deal of 5 years and $165 - $170 Mil is what I expect him to get from us. The reason he takes it is because he can only get 4 years and $140 elsewhere. That should have been obvious.

    I will go out on a limb and say Lopez will shoot a higher % on his 3 pointers next season. He was great, but his percentage wasn't way better than previous years. I would offer Lopez a 3 year deal with a team option for the 3rd year at around $10 or $11 Mil per. I'm not sure why you think that a 7 foot 250 Lb man can't shoot 3's because he's too old at 32. He barely jumps when blocking shots, so I think he'll still be able to lift up his arms next year too.

    We have no money to improve the team, but we're already really good. We can let people leave in free agency and watch Giannis sign else where or we can bring back our current roster and make another run at the title. That seems like a much better option than starting over.

    I cannot believe what little faith you guy's have in Giannis, our MVP. He thanked Kawhi after game 6 for showing him where he needed to improve. He's only 24 and still getting better. Kobi challenged him to win the championship and that's exactly what I expect to happen next year if we can bring back Midd, Brog, Lopez and Hill. The MVP is still just scratching the surface of how good he can be. 3 years from now, he'll likely average 32-14-6 and do it with much less effort than what he's using now. Giannis gets much better every season and you can expect that to continue.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post

    Bledsoe isn't terrible. He had a bad playoffs. He was also all defensive team and people in this forum were talkinf about how he's more important than middleton during the regular season. He's a good player.

    Your hatred for middleton is ridiculous. Is he perfect? No, but saying he's fat and out of shape yet still an all star is so dumb.
    I wouldn't of even had Middleton for a All Star at all. Bledsoe was more worthy for regular season. I would of had Bledsoe take Lowry's backcourt spot. Then Siakam take Middleton's frontcourt spot.

  11. #26
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  12. #27
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    5/$190M as a flat rate is $38M per for Middleton. Let that set in for a minute. Even Brogdon on 4/$80M be a bit rough with that foot injury. Let alone if another team front loads it to make it harder to match for RFA Brogdon.

  13. #28
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    Also sounds like Celtics will make a big offer to Brogdon once they miss out on Kemba. Bulls and Mavs possibly after Brogdon as well.

  14. #29
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  15. #30
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