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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack the Ripper View Post
    While Nasty and I disagree on quite a bit, I can at least respect the fact that his beliefs have a basis in religious text. Mary seems to believe in parts of the Bible, but not all. Or at least takes issue with parts of the Bible that are more harsh than others, such as the doctrine of hell.
    No. I just dont believe in thumping. That never saved a soul. Its such a turn off. I know youre a very nice person. You have some temper issues but whatever. I know you dont realize how youre coming off. Remember that above all, God is Love. If you cannot be an example of that love then dont speak for God. What dugmet said rang true for me because thats the God I know. Loving and forgiving, not wanting to be feard but loved back.
    Fear of being damned shouldnt be the foundation of anybodies spiritual life. I believe every soul wants to know the truth. If not why even debate? I have faith that if people are really seeking truth they will find it. In their own time. God is weird... it could be on PSD... Who the hell am i to doubt that? But it wont be by your method. Ever.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by marychristine View Post
    No. I just dont believe in thumping. That never saved a soul. Its such a turn off. I know youre a very nice person. You have some temper issues but whatever. I know you dont realize how youre coming off. Remember that above all, God is Love. If you cannot be an example of that love then dont speak for God. What dugmet said rang true for me because thats the God I know. Loving and forgiving, not wanting to be feard but loved back.
    Fear of being damned shouldnt be the foundation of anybodies spiritual life. I believe every soul wants to know the truth. If not why even debate? I have faith that if people are really seeking truth they will find it. In their own time. God is weird... it could be on PSD... Who the hell am i to doubt that? But it wont be by your method. Ever.
    What Dugmet said is false, though, and that needs to be said. Not every soul goes to heaven and the Bible is very clear about that.

    You mistake my bluntness for anger sometimes. I am extremely blunt and I understand that because of that my point is sometimes lost because it turns people off. That is my nature, though, and it can be hard to get around sometimes.

    We do agree here, somewhat, I think. I believe every soul wants to know the truth as well. And I also believe that every soul either embraces that desire to know the truth or suppresses it by doing everything in their power to disprove it. That's what I see from FoC. A very desperate attempt to disprove God and free himself.

    The doctrine of hell is a tough one to take. Like I mentioned earlier, one of my very close friends could be in hell right now. I may never get to have another conversation with him, or ever hug him again. It would be much easier for me to dismiss the Bible and decide for myself that everybody goes to heaven and I will see him again, but I can't do that because I do believe in the Bible, every word of it. I also see it as irresponsible for me to not answer any question about it truthfully. I see his being here as more an attempt to convince himself of what he beleives, that God doesn't exist, than in a heartfelt search for the truth. He can correct me there if I'm wrong.
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  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack the Ripper View Post
    What Dugmet said is false, though, and that needs to be said. Not every soul goes to heaven and the Bible is very clear about that.

    You mistake my bluntness for anger sometimes. I am extremely blunt and I understand that because of that my point is sometimes lost because it turns people off. That is my nature, though, and it can be hard to get around sometimes.

    We do agree here, somewhat, I think. I believe every soul wants to know the truth as well. And I also believe that every soul either embraces that desire to know the truth or suppresses it by doing everything in their power to disprove it. That's what I see from FoC. A very desperate attempt to disprove God and free himself.

    The doctrine of hell is a tough one to take. Like I mentioned earlier, one of my very close friends could be in hell right now. I may never get to have another conversation with him, or ever hug him again. It would be much easier for me to dismiss the Bible and decide for myself that everybody goes to heaven and I will see him again, but I can't do that because I do believe in the Bible, every word of it. I also see it as irresponsible for me to not answer any question about it truthfully. I see his being here as more an attempt to convince himself of what he beleives, that God doesn't exist, than in a heartfelt search for the truth. He can correct me there if I'm wrong.
    What Dugmet said describes the very heart of God and I loved it.

    Dont worry for FoC. Hes going to be fine. If he wants to know the truth, he will... eventually.

    C.S. Lewis has a great story
    http://www.cslewisinstitute.org/node/48

    At age seventeen, Lewis wrote to longtime friend Arthur Greeves, "I believe in no religion. There is absolutely no proof for any of them, and from a philosophical standpoint Christianity is not even the best." Fifteen years later, Lewis wrote to Arthur, "Christianity is God expressing Himself through what we call f'real things'. . . namely, the actual incarnation, crucifixion and resurrection"

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by marychristine View Post
    What Dugmet said describes the very heart of God and I loved it.

    Dont worry for FoC. Hes going to be fine. If he wants to know the truth, he will... eventually.

    C.S. Lewis has a great story
    http://www.cslewisinstitute.org/node/48

    At age seventeen, Lewis wrote to longtime friend Arthur Greeves, "I believe in no religion. There is absolutely no proof for any of them, and from a philosophical standpoint Christianity is not even the best." Fifteen years later, Lewis wrote to Arthur, "Christianity is God expressing Himself through what we call f'real things'. . . namely, the actual incarnation, crucifixion and resurrection"
    Yes, God is love, but he is also just. He is merciful, but he is also just. There is a punishment for sin. "No one comes to the father but through me." The key word there is no one. You either allow Christ to stand in for your sin or you face the punishment yourself, which is hell. No one goes to hell because of God. They go because of themselves. Because they chose it. Because God is loving and merciful, but he is also just.

    Dugmet described only a part of God's nature. If we are going to take God is love from the Bible, we also have to accept that he is just as well and that there is a punishment for sin.
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  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack the Ripper View Post
    Yes, God is love, but he is also just. He is merciful, but he is also just. There is a punishment for sin. "No one comes to the father but through me." The key word there is no one. You either allow Christ to stand in for your sin or you face the punishment yourself, which is hell. No one goes to hell because of God. They go because of themselves. Because they chose it. Because God is loving and merciful, but he is also just.

    Dugmet described only a part of God's nature. If we are going to take God is love from the Bible, we also have to accept that he is just as well and that there is a punishment for sin.
    Were you born into a religious family?
    Last edited by marychristine; 10-13-2019 at 11:13 PM.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by marychristine View Post
    Or you.
    No. My beliefs are based in the natural world for which there is plenty of evidence. There cannot ever be evidence of the supernatural.
    Last edited by fanofclendennon; 10-14-2019 at 02:55 PM.
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears but they seem kinda sensible...."

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    No. My beliefs are based in the natural works for which there is plenty of evidence. There cannot ever be evidence of the supernatural.
    Youre not the first person to say that only to be proven wrong. Your day will come.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by marychristine View Post
    Youre not the first person to say that only to be proven wrong. Your day will come.
    Can you be more specific?

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Can you be more specific?
    You will experience the spiritual realm for yourself. No one can show it to you. It has to be your experience and yours alone... and it will be.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by marychristine View Post
    You will experience the spiritual realm for yourself. No one can show it to you. It has to be your experience and yours alone... and it will be.
    This. Everybody's different.
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    This. Everybody's different.
    Right.

    And since the spiritual experience is not a shared one, and that everyone's different, that no one can show it you, and it has to be your experience and yours alone, isn't that basically another way of saying everyone makes up their own snit but that it is still snit, nonetheless?
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears but they seem kinda sensible...."

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Right.

    And since the spiritual experience is not a shared one, and that everyone's different, that no one can show it you, and it has to be your experience and yours alone, isn't that basically another way of saying everyone makes up their own snit but that it is still snit, nonetheless?
    No, it's more like in calculus when someone goes from not understanding what a derivative is to understanding what a derivative is

    It's like a lightbulb turning on in your head, but the only person who can flick the switch is you
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    No, it's more like in calculus when someone goes from not understanding what a derivative is to understanding what a derivative is

    It's like a lightbulb turning on in your head, but the only person who can flick the switch is you
    Lol, that's the exact opposite to what you and Christine said above. See, a derivative and other concepts in calculus can be illustrated. Calculus equations are indeed a shared experience. Anyone who learns calculus can agree on the solutions to equations.

    Few agree on the details of God and the spiritual. Ask 10 people to define God and you're likely to get 10 different definitions. Just read the discussions between the two of you, Dug, and Ripper.

    So what are we talking about, again?
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears but they seem kinda sensible...."

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Lol, that's the exact opposite to what you and Christine said above. See, a derivative and other concepts in calculus can be illustrated. Calculus equations are indeed a shared experience. Anyone who learns calculus can agree on the solutions to equations.

    Few agree on the details of God and the spiritual. Ask 10 people to define God and you're likely to get 10 different definitions. Just read the discussions between the two of you, Dug, and Ripper.

    So what are we talking about, again?
    Have you taken calculus ?
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Few agree on the details of God and the spiritual. Ask 10 people to define God and you're likely to get 10 different definitions. Just read the discussions between the two of you, Dug, and Ripper.

    So what are we talking about, again?
    Yes exactly, part of that switching turning on is understanding the details are irrelevant. This is one part you heavily struggle with, it's a roadblock for you. Many people who think in a very scientific manner struggle with this, because their minds better understand right or wrong answers, either something is or it isnt. So this whole realm of partial understanding, and subjective truths, it does not align well with their mentality.

    But there are also religious people who think like you. I'm right, you're wrong, my way or the high way.

    The diversity of life and mankind...
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

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