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  1. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartron_44 View Post
    I still think that Gasol trade was awful in hindsight. Sure he can defend big 5's, but so could JV. JV is also way more mobile than Gasol now. Gasol isn't an elite rim protector, he isn't a good rebounder, and he isn't a good scorer. Can you imagine if Philly would have tried to put Embiid on Siakam and tried to use Tobias Harris to gaurd JV? Either Siakam would have kept going off, or JV would have.


    I realize we are back in the ECF's, but don't forget they also had the best record in the NBA early on when they were fully healthy. In hindsight, both Delon and JV blew up once they hit Memphis and started getting 30+ mpg.. while both Gasol and Lin have struggled to make an impact for us.
    Iím with you all the way on this one. I donít think itís the end of the world and Marc will suffice. But anyone who actually thinks heís better than Jonas at this stage of his career is in denial.
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 05-15-2019 at 10:30 AM.

  2. #167
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    The ball movement is what I like most about gasol vs jv. And also the confident/quick-trigger 3's. Gasol is better at switching and defending the pick and roll imo. I think everyone but embiid would have done better with JV in the lineup.

    The ball movement though... we didn't see too much of it in game 7 because it was all about leonard, but JV and Ibaka are some of the worst in that department. Over a 7 game series, and especially if they can hit some of those 3's... gonna continue to be key.

  3. #168
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    We got away from the slashing while gasol has the ball against the 6ers. I'm assuming it's because of embiid presence, but we will need more of that against the bucks.

  4. #169
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    Some of you disagreed when I first said it, but I still think this series comes down to which teams bigs shoot the best.

  5. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Again, Jonas owned Embiid. If thatís the only thing making people feel better about the trade they are fully lying to themselves. Anyone who followed Jonasí career knows he dominated guys like Embiid and Cousins.
    Where did he own him? During the regular season games? Sixers didn't have this kind of play during those games. Also Val only played in 2 of the regular season games against Sixers and only contained Embid in one of them. The other game Embid did very well. During the playoffs Sixers played significantly improved basketball and I don't think Val would have dominated Embid. I think you are overrating Val and underrating Gasol. To me that trade was worth the risk. We can agree to disagree on the merit of that trade.

  6. #171
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    Let's not forget what gasol did to vuc in the 1st round.

  7. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by killersweet View Post
    Where did he own him? During the regular season games? Sixers didn't have this kind of play during those games. Also Val only played in 2 of the regular season games against Sixers and only contained Embid in one of them. The other game Embid did very well. During the playoffs Sixers played significantly improved basketball and I don't think Val would have dominated Embid. I think you are overrating Val and underrating Gasol. To me that trade was worth the risk. We can agree to disagree on the merit of that trade.
    Every time they played against each other. Not just this season.
    Last edited by smith&wesson; 05-15-2019 at 02:06 PM.

  8. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Let's not forget what gasol did to vuc in the 1st round.
    We would have won that series in 5 regardless.

  9. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenfidish View Post
    You make a valid point. I just donít want him period getting those pump me up dunks which gets his team going an on a run. Seen one to many. Iím still for ibaka and gasol starting which leaves green as the odd man out. What are your thoughts ecart? And what is everyone else in hereís thought on green not starting?
    We don't have enough shooting with Green out. I have Gasol as the odd man out because there's no one for him to defend against. Since they play 5 out, those are super long rotations for Gasol.

    When they play small with Giannis at the 5, Gasol gets exposed even more. They can force the mismatch with Gasol and expose him on every pick and roll.

    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Only issue with that is that I think philly had the same game plan for us. Leonard gets his and shut down everyone else. It worked! They did shut everyone else down. Only Leonard still carried us. I think our best bet is to deny Giannis from getting inside is try to turn him in to a jump shooter.
    I think it's slightly different because their whole offensive system basically plays off the idea that the defense is going to focus hard on Giannis and take him out of the game. When Boston was zeroing in on Giannis, the Bucks responded with play action on the opposite side of Giannis. So the Celtics players had to make the difficult decision to keep following the game plan or to help on the strong side. I just don't like playing their game and would rather force them to adjust.

  10. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    I agree about Green. There's a reason why Pop didn't use him that much offensively. His release actually isn't that quick compared to other sharp shooters and he can't shoot off balance like Reddick for instance. He's also not that consistent. He also can't do much if you force him to dribble. He had a few really bad turnovers against Philly when they forced him to put it on the floor after they closed out hard on him.

    Yeah Giannis uses tons of screens. They like to use guards to screen for him to give him even more space.

    Honestly, I would rather let Giannis get his and shut everyone else down.



    Eh he hasn't played that well since. That's why the Spurs always joke about Green "sucking".
    I'm with you on your strategy - let him get his and keep his team down.

    The only difference is I might reserve that strategy for games in TO. I think dominant play by Giannis in front of his home crowd could start an avalanche you cant contain

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    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  11. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by smith&wesson View Post
    Jonas played just as good defence on Embiid. Jonas owned Embiid and Cousins. I think I made it pretty clear i would have preferred we kept Jonas. I was just saying you called Lopez big and clumsy and thatís so much more accurate in describing Marc. Lol Lopez is in better shape.

    Am I sour about it ? Not really, I like Marc I just think we got him a few years to late. Heís just not anywhere near what he use to be and what he gives you is limited to one side.
    I feel you. I will give Gasol credit when I think he makes a big difference to this team. He brings certain elements, but if he was making the impact people are crediting with we would be seeing a better team, and I've yet to see that.

    As a point of clarification, they looked awfully good after game 1 against Orlando and I almost bit and thought for a moment we were finally seeing evidence we were improved by that trade, and then last series happened. That was not encouraging.

    Now I'm not blaming Gasol, he didnt trade himself. And the Raptors could wake up and roll through the ECF'S. The point of adding a new ingredient is to improve the recipe, and I'm waiting patiently for a better dish.

    Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  12. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    I'm with you on your strategy - let him get his and keep his team down.

    The only difference is I might reserve that strategy for games in TO. I think dominant play by Giannis in front of his home crowd could start an avalanche you cant contain

    Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
    I think it depends on the matchup. If they use the Mirotic lineup, they can pretty much force any switch. So you might as well save your energy and use it to exploit Mirotic/Lopez on the other end. With Middleton and Mirotic out there you have to switch since their releases are so quick and high, it's hard to get a decent contest. You don't have time to fight through a screen and contest.

    If they go with their original lineup with Brogdon, I think you can key in more on Giannis because Brogdon has a very slow and awkward release. The only player you can't contest in that scenario would be Middleton but you can gamble and preemptively force the ball away from him. Much harder if there are two out there.

  13. #178
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    I wasn't a fan of the Gasol trade since I thought Gasol was washed up but I don't think you can say he hasn't made an impact. Our ball movement and our defence are noticeably better. We can play more aggressively on ball with Gasol than with JV. Not that Gasol moves that much better than JV but Gasol reads the game better and positions himself more efficiently. We've never been able to rotate like that with JV. Philly had no answer for that. They ran so many plays and still came up empty.

    What's more arguable is whether these two things create more of an impact than JV's superior rebounding and efficiency inside.

    If we weren't shooting so poorly, I would say the answer is obvious but we can't shoot for **** so personally, I think it's a bit ambiguous.

  14. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by bartron_44 View Post
    I still think that Gasol trade was awful in hindsight. Sure he can defend big 5's, but so could JV. JV is also way more mobile than Gasol now. Gasol isn't an elite rim protector, he isn't a good rebounder, and he isn't a good scorer. Can you imagine if Philly would have tried to put Embiid on Siakam and tried to use Tobias Harris to gaurd JV? Either Siakam would have kept going off, or JV would have.


    I realize we are back in the ECF's, but don't forget they also had the best record in the NBA early on when they were fully healthy. In hindsight, both Delon and JV blew up once they hit Memphis and started getting 30+ mpg.. while both Gasol and Lin have struggled to make an impact for us.
    Why would JV be going off? They didn't respect our shooting and begged us to shoot. Embiid would still be camping in the paint. There would also be less lanes available with JV battling for position on every possession.

    Delon wouldn't have done anything. We needed shooters period. Delon is awful at finishing at the rim in general. He would have been just as useless as FVV.
    Last edited by ecart; 05-15-2019 at 05:57 PM.

  15. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecart View Post
    I wasn't a fan of the Gasol trade since I thought Gasol was washed up but I don't think you can say he hasn't made an impact. Our ball movement and our defence are noticeably better. We can play more aggressively on ball with Gasol than with JV. Not that Gasol moves that much better than JV but Gasol reads the game better and positions himself more efficiently. We've never been able to rotate like that with JV. Philly had no answer for that. They ran so many plays and still came up empty.

    What's more arguable is whether these two things create more of an impact than JV's superior rebounding and efficiency inside.

    If we weren't shooting so poorly, I would say the answer is obvious but we can't shoot for **** so personally, I think it's a bit ambiguous.
    Heís made an impact by playing good defence. His passing is good but he does it almost to a fault. He just leaves so much to be desired on the other end.

    We know why nurse canít play Marc with the 2nd unit. Between FVV and Marc they would really struggle to score..

    Iíll take what Marc gives us on the defensive end, and anything he produced offensively is a bonus. Iíve accepted it and moved on.

    If he was expiring I wouldnít be as concerned. Between him and Lowry they really tie Masaiís hands from adding any fire power in the off season. Patrick Beverly is a player I really want Toronto to sign if Leonard stays.

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