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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    No.

    The family was invoking their belief in God and an afterlife to help them feel better about their daughter's struggles. I was only asking that if they feel God could repair their daighter in an afterlife, how do they reconcile God doing nothing while their daughter was alive.

    My answer is simple: Their daughter suffered in life because sickness and disease are part of nature. And now her life is over because life is finite. There's no reason to believe in an afterlife. And God plays no part in this conversation just like he played no part in the pizza burn.

    When u remove God everything works logically. When u invoke him, u suddenly find yourself rationalizing or maling excuses for why Mr Omnipotent didnt do more.
    No, there is nothing to rationalize, we already know life is a balance between highs and lows. There is no reason to insist God need exert himself as such, what is there to rationalize? This is a question to you because you expect something of God that I dont expect.

    I think we're coming at this from diff places, my argument rests on the idea that life is life and there is no need to insist God act in accordance to our best interest.

    You seem to be approaching it more from am afterlife perspective
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    No, there is nothing to rationalize, we already know life is a balance between highs and lows. There is no reason to insist God need exert himself as such, what is there to rationalize? This is a question to you because you expect something of God that I dont expect.

    I think we're coming at this from diff places, my argument rests on the idea that life is life and there is no need to insist God act in accordance to our best interest.

    You seem to be approaching it more from am afterlife perspective
    Interesting. God, assuming he exists, is believed to be all powerful and all loving. No, he doesnt HAVE to do anything. But ask yourself this: If you had the power to make that little girl well again, would you? Why or why not?

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Interesting. God, assuming he exists, is believed to be all powerful and all loving. No, he doesnt HAVE to do anything. But ask yourself this: If you had the power to make that little girl well again, would you? Why or why not?
    Yes I would because that would make the girl and her family happy, and it would make me feel good to see them happy.
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Yes I would because that would make the girl and her family happy, and it would make me feel good to see them happy.
    I agree. I would, too. One can only guess, then, why, assuming there is a God, that God wouldn't. You've stated your opinion as to why that is so. But that's all it is: an opinion. And in my opinion, you're just rationalizing why God wouldn't' and didn't.

    Conversely, the result of her dying is more consistent with an assumption that there simply was no God to prevent her death.
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears but they seem kinda sensible...."

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    I agree. I would, too. One can only guess, then, why, assuming there is a God, that God wouldn't. You've stated your opinion as to why that is so. But that's all it is: an opinion. And in my opinion, you're just rationalizing why God wouldn't' and didn't.

    Conversely, the result of her dying is more consistent with an assumption that there simply was no God to prevent her death.
    I didn't state an opinion, I stated an entire ideological approach. It's not rationalizing, its understanding why. It is 100% strictly logic based on facts, there is no emotion.
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    I didn't state an opinion, I stated an entire ideological approach. It's not rationalizing, its understanding why. It is 100% strictly logic based on facts, there is no emotion.
    Ok, have it your way. But any way you slice it, the ideological approach you chose to state is an opinion. Here's another one: God is just an SOB who decided he wanted the kid to die and for the parents to be sad.

    That's a different ideological approach but every bit as valid as yours. Opinions work that way. It comes down to this: If you assume God exists, the question as to why God didn't heal the girl back to full health becomes a matter of an "ideological approach" or an opinion.

    Assume there is no God and the question of why she didn't return to health is merely a matter of objective medical facts. No opinions are needed.
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears but they seem kinda sensible...."

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Ok, have it your way. But any way you slice it, the ideological approach you chose to state is an opinion. Here's another one: God is just an SOB who decided he wanted the kid to die and for the parents to be sad.

    That's a different ideological approach but every bit as valid as yours. Opinions work that way. It comes down to this: If you assume God exists, the question as to why God didn't heal the girl back to full health becomes a matter of an "ideological approach" or an opinion.

    Assume there is no God and the question of why she didn't return to health is merely a matter of objective medical facts. No opinions are needed.
    Sure, everyone will experience death and sadness, this is life. If that invokes some anger in you that you curse at God in response then that's your choice.

    The matter of why God didn't heal the girl back isn't a matter of opinion, its simply how life works. We live, we die, we happy, we sad, this is life. This is the blessing. Maybe this is the curse, you tell me...

    The reason in your mind it is a matter of opinion is because you keep trying to inject emotion into the equation, and so you vent your emotion and call it an opinion. It's not an opinion, it's just your frustration with how life works.

    And your last paragraph basically sums up what I am saying, just understand an assumption for a God or for no God is irrelevant
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Sure, everyone will experience death and sadness, this is life. If that invokes some anger in you that you curse at God in response then that's your choice.

    The matter of why God didn't heal the girl back isn't a matter of opinion, its simply how life works. We live, we die, we happy, we sad, this is life. This is the blessing. Maybe this is the curse, you tell me...

    The reason in your mind it is a matter of opinion is because you keep trying to inject emotion into the equation, and so you vent your emotion and call it an opinion. It's not an opinion, it's just your frustration with how life works.

    And your last paragraph basically sums up what I am saying, just understand an assumption for a God or for no God is irrelevant
    Thats not simply how life works. That's not how any of this works.

    We've akready established God, assuming he exists, exists in a supernatural realm. And since we can only experience life on a natural realm, any thoughts about God and how and why he acts can only be an opinion.

    So what we know about life is that people sometimes die from disease and illness. God's role in these events, assuming he even exists to be able to play one, is pure conjecture since it would be on a supernatural -- impossible to be known -- realm.

    We know people live and die. The fact is that, as you said, "we live, we die, we happy, we sad." Absolutely. But whatever God might have to do with any of that is mere opinion.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    Thats not simply how life works. That's not how any of this works.

    We've akready established God, assuming he exists, exists in a supernatural realm. And since we can only experience life on a natural realm, any thoughts about God and how and why he acts can only be an opinion.

    So what we know about life is that people sometimes die from disease and illness. God's role in these events, assuming he even exists to be able to play one, is pure conjecture since it would be on a supernatural -- impossible to be known -- realm.

    We know people live and die. The fact is that, as you said, "we live, we die, we happy, we sad." Absolutely. But whatever God might have to do with any of that is mere opinion.
    It's not mere opinion, its is observable, verifiable, objective fact.

    We have to be misunderstanding each other here,because what you're saying makes no sense to me.

    Life has joy, life has pain, this is just a fact, this is how life works. It was asked that why did God not do anything, a response was given because that's not how life works. You seem to agree. What is the misunderstanding here?
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    It's not mere opinion, its is observable, verifiable, objective fact.

    We have to be misunderstanding each other here,because what you're saying makes no sense to me.

    Life has joy, life has pain, this is just a fact, this is how life works. It was asked that why did God not do anything, a response was given because that's not how life works. You seem to agree. What is the misunderstanding here?
    You're confusing two things.

    The observable, verifiable, objective fact is that people get sick and they die.

    The opinion is that somewhere out there lies an omnipotent God who chooses not to intervene for reasons you previously articulated. Indeed, any ideology pertaining to an omnipotent God and how he chooses or doesn't choose to act is an opinion since two things cannot be known: 1) Whether an omnipotent God exists. And 2) If he does exist, how does he choose to act?

    What did I say here that is disputable?
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears but they seem kinda sensible...."

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    You're confusing two things.

    The observable, verifiable, objective fact is that people get sick and they die.

    The opinion is that somewhere out there lies an omnipotent God who chooses not to intervene for reasons you previously articulated. Indeed, any ideology pertaining to an omnipotent God and how he chooses or doesn't choose to act is an opinion since two things cannot be known: 1) Whether an omnipotent God exists. And 2) If he does exist, how does he choose to act?

    What did I say here that is disputable?
    Are you asking regarding the question does God exist, or the question why didn't God act?

    Because you seem to be conflating the two on and off. I am responding to you that God didn't act or intervene because that is not how life works, he doesn't break the laws of nature to cater to us personally. If you are telling me that's an opinion, I'm telling you no, you can observe it as a fact around you right now. I can factually say that is not how life works.
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Are you asking regarding the question does God exist, or the question why didn't God act?

    Because you seem to be conflating the two on and off. I am responding to you that God didn't act or intervene because that is not how life works, he doesn't break the laws of nature to cater to us personally. If you are telling me that's an opinion, I'm telling you no, you can observe it as a fact around you right now. I can factually say that is not how life works.
    You're doing sonething very clever. You're combining what you know about life with what you believe about God and putting it all under the same umbrella.

    Stop doing that.

    I am neither asking the question of whether God exists nor why doesnt he act more benevolently. But I am saying if you do believe, the answer as to why he didnt he act is an opinion. If you dont believe, you wouldnt ask the question in the first place.

    Does this help?

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    You're doing sonething very clever. You're combining what you know about life with what you believe about God and putting it all under the same umbrella.

    Stop doing that.

    I am neither asking the question of whether God exists nor why doesnt he act more benevolently. But I am saying if you do believe, the answer as to why he didnt he act is an opinion. If you dont believe, you wouldnt ask the question in the first place.

    Does this help?
    No, not really.

    My answer to why he didn't act can be proved and verified. It's called science. Wether nature follows natural law or not is not an opinion.
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    No, not really.

    My answer to why he didn't act can be proved and verified. It's called science. Wether nature follows natural law or not is not an opinion.
    God is supernatural. Science is only concerned with the natural. You're taking natural events and adding God.

    Stop doing that.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by fanofclendennon View Post
    God is supernatural. Science is only concerned with the natural. You're taking natural events and adding God.

    Stop doing that.
    Where did I add god?

    You seem to be the one asking me to add god..
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

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