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  1. #31
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    to live, by yourself, in the twin cites, I figure you would need to make a MINIMUM, of $21/hr. And that would be to live without a car, and have a cheap *** apartment.

    So again, we have ignored the wage gap so much, that I guess I get sick of reading "living wage", and "$15" in the same sentence.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Then you phase in the wage increases over a large enough time that it isn't as disruptive. But I don't think it's a good argument to say "even though we should be paying a living wage according to the intent and purpose of the minimum wage law, we weren't doing that so long that now attempting to follow the law would be problematic".

    We owe it to all the people we've been ripping off over the years to give them what we legally determined they should have.
    but it would be. You will see massive overreaction and forced push of automation. Layoffs, etc. It WILL be damaging. But like anything, if we wish for the future to be better, the current generation will need to suck it up and take the hit.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  3. #33
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    One of the key reasons for increasing the minimum wage is to establish a percentage increase for other workers, generally under union contracts. The rest of the economy doesn't stay static, other wages and costs go up. As labor goes up cost of goods goes up, one way to reduce labor costs is higher automation; this is why robotic fast food joints are on the horizon, buy a 120 k robot and no workers comp, no ot, no sickness, stay competitive in the marketplace.
    In the next 10 years you will robots doing cleaning hotel rooms (vacuums, showers) with a maid making the bed and emptying the trash.
    This is the fallacy of all the unskilled labor coming into the country, we won't have a high demand for unskilled labor in the near future.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    but it would be. You will see massive overreaction and forced push of automation. Layoffs, etc. It WILL be damaging. But like anything, if we wish for the future to be better, the current generation will need to suck it up and take the hit.
    It is a tough sell to me to tell people making $8.25 an hour that if we pay them more money it will be damaging to them. I think it's something we collectively tell ourselves to justify not paying them more than $8.25 an hour.

    I don't think $15 is right for everywhere, but I do think $8.25 is wrong for everywhere.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    It is a tough sell to me to tell people making $8.25 an hour that if we pay them more money it will be damaging to them. I think it's something we collectively tell ourselves to justify not paying them more than $8.25 an hour.

    I don't think $15 is right for everywhere, but I do think $8.25 is wrong for everywhere.
    I do believe minimum wage needs to rise, but I also think people need to understand it will have a negative short term effect. It just will. Does it effect me? A little, cost of goods rises, etc. But outside that, it won't help minimum wage workers entirely is all. Many of them will all of a sudden find jobs being taken by automation. Which, will happen anyways, as we know technology gets cheaper and more advanced by the year.

    I am only playing devils advocate, and pointing out $15/hr aint a living wage dude. And pointing out, if we just raise it, expect hiccups, not rainbows.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    I do believe minimum wage needs to rise, but I also think people need to understand it will have a negative short term effect. It just will. Does it effect me? A little, cost of goods rises, etc. But outside that, it won't help minimum wage workers entirely is all. Many of them will all of a sudden find jobs being taken by automation. Which, will happen anyways, as we know technology gets cheaper and more advanced by the year.

    I am only playing devils advocate, and pointing out $15/hr aint a living wage dude. And pointing out, if we just raise it, expect hiccups, not rainbows.
    If it's going to happen anyways, why threaten workers with this possibility?

    Of course there are going to be hiccups, but just because there are hiccups doesn't mean it isn't worth doing.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    If it's going to happen anyways, why threaten workers with this possibility?

    Of course there are going to be hiccups, but just because there are hiccups doesn't mean it isn't worth doing.
    dude I only want to make sure people pining for it aren't shocked when some negative impact hits. And everyone will feel the cost of goods rise.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    dude I only want to make sure people pining for it aren't shocked when some negative impact hits. And everyone will feel the cost of goods rise.
    I'm fine with it. Seattle raised their minimum wages fairly sharply the last few years and it has had a minimal, if zero, negative effect on my wallet. I just budget in the extra $5 I pay a month from the increased menu prices.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by SfgiantsJD3 View Post
    One of the key reasons for increasing the minimum wage is to establish a percentage increase for other workers, generally under union contracts. The rest of the economy doesn't stay static, other wages and costs go up. As labor goes up cost of goods goes up, one way to reduce labor costs is higher automation; this is why robotic fast food joints are on the horizon, buy a 120 k robot and no workers comp, no ot, no sickness, stay competitive in the marketplace.
    In the next 10 years you will robots doing cleaning hotel rooms (vacuums, showers) with a maid making the bed and emptying the trash.
    This is the fallacy of all the unskilled labor coming into the country, we won't have a high demand for unskilled labor in the near future.
    Thatís not fine, it just means we need to be prepared to provide an avenue for making our workforce more skilled. As it is right now, we have too many barriers in place.


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  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    to live, by yourself, in the twin cites, I figure you would need to make a MINIMUM, of $21/hr. And that would be to live without a car, and have a cheap *** apartment.

    So again, we have ignored the wage gap so much, that I guess I get sick of reading "living wage", and "$15" in the same sentence.
    We can't even convince people that $15 should be a bare minimum of what people get paid. Good luck convincing anyone that doesn't support $15/hr to support $21/hr.
    Think long and hard about why you respond to nonsense. Please!


  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    We can't even convince people that $15 should be a bare minimum of what people get paid. Good luck convincing anyone that doesn't support $15/hr to support $21/hr.
    I know man. And I hope I am not coming off like we shouldn't raise the minimum wage. I just think people underestimate the consequences, and the fact that $15/hr really isn't much. Efforts may be better served addressing the massive gap between the rich and middle class..

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zmaster52 View Post
    ********. Every job deserves a living wage.

    People have heart attacks here because McDonaldís workers make $15 an hour now (thatís minimum) but fail to realize that you still canít afford your own place even while making the $15 an hour.

    Minimum wage jobs at the very least should be able to get you a studio apartment.
    In a perfect world, yea, every job deserves a living wage. But, here on Earth, nah.

    Businesses can't run at a loss.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    I kind of agree on this. Working a minimum wage job should be a starter job, or part time job. The only exceptions are handicap, or those restricted unfortunately. But those people also qualify for assistance to make up any gap in "living" wage.

    If you are 35, and have a minimum wage job, you failed at life.

    However, what we deem a "living wage" is funny. $15/hour isn't liveable. Sorry.
    Ive made less than 15 per hour almost my entire life and I bought a 100,000 dollar house on my own at 27.

    So I donít agree that 15 per hour isnít liveable.




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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeW-Star View Post
    Thatís not fine, it just means we need to be prepared to provide an avenue for making our workforce more skilled. As it is right now, we have too many barriers in place.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    One of the barriers is the assumption that everyone needs to go to college and the elimination of trades in schools, the other is moving people along through school whether they learn anything or not. Then there is expecting the employer to teach things that should have been learned in 7th or 8th grade.

    The ex-cons trained in the prsions don't learn very many useful skills, with all the inspections they don't do much in a day.

    IN Germany you decide when you are in about the 8th or 9th grade to go the skills route or the school.

  15. #45
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    Mar 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brewersfan255 View Post
    Ive made less than 15 per hour almost my entire life and I bought a 100,000 dollar house on my own at 27.

    So I donít agree that 15 per hour isnít liveable.




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    You have you and you alone to care for. Your plight is insignificant.

    Try talking to my employees who make that much and more, bust *** every day, and arenít able to climb our companyís pay structure without arbitrary qualifications that they realistically can not achieve because they have children to take care of.

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