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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhopisthename View Post
    I actually don't think so because he is a non garunteed so I think we lose his bird rights if we decline his contract. I would also disagree about the cap space part. our team has pretty good contracts with the exception of exum
    I'm not talking about our contracts. I agree, for the most part we have good contracts. I'm talking about the 113 mill we spent last year in comparison to the 126 mill the Rockets spent, or the 136 the Raptors have in player salaries. I realize that spending doesn't always lead to wins, but we are consistently being beat in the playoffs by teams that are deeper due to their expensive rosters. We are worried about our cap space yet we are always near the bottom of total player salaries. The 2019 salary cap is projected to be 116 million. We have 73 million committed so far. The Luxury tax line is 141. That means we should have between 43 and 68 million if we follow all the overly complicated salary cap rules. That should be plenty to keep a player like Favors and still go after a top free agent. It "should be", but it is not because we are not working the cap like other teams. In contrast the Raptors are already at 131 million for next year with only 21 allocated to Kawhi. Kawhi's number could double. Does anyone else think it's messed up that we potentially don't have enough money to sign a star player and Favors despite several other teams spending 20 million more than us each year?

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raupie View Post
    I completely agree... my point is that a championship is going to take some luck. I believe it was Draymond Green who quote this year saying we don't need 82 game players, we need 7 game players. While Exum has struggled to stay healthy, he possess the elite skills that could make him effective in a 7 game series... IF he stays healthy. That elite ability is what makes him worth the risk.
    And this is where we disagree. There is no way Exum is a "7 game player" on a contender. Even when healthy Exum was getting only 15 minutes per game, and occasionally getting a DNP from Snyder. So your own coach only thinks he deserves the 9th most minutes. Even when healthy he was only shooting 42% from two and 29% from three. Your talking about the same Exum that has trouble getting the offense in it's sets, looks lost at times, and too often gets outplayed by Neto. When you add in his health history this is just laughable.

    So he played good defense on Harden for a few games last year in the playoffs. So what! We lost that series in 5! I am so tired of this discussion. You have no stats to support your claim just a gut feeling. Just stop. Exum is a bust.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth View Post
    I'm not talking about our contracts. I agree, for the most part we have good contracts. I'm talking about the 113 mill we spent last year in comparison to the 126 mill the Rockets spent, or the 136 the Raptors have in player salaries. I realize that spending doesn't always lead to wins, but we are consistently being beat in the playoffs by teams that are deeper due to their expensive rosters. We are worried about our cap space yet we are always near the bottom of total player salaries. The 2019 salary cap is projected to be 116 million. We have 73 million committed so far. The Luxury tax line is 141. That means we should have between 43 and 68 million if we follow all the overly complicated salary cap rules. That should be plenty to keep a player like Favors and still go after a top free agent. It "should be", but it is not because we are not working the cap like other teams. In contrast the Raptors are already at 131 million for next year with only 21 allocated to Kawhi. Kawhi's number could double. Does anyone else think it's messed up that we potentially don't have enough money to sign a star player and Favors despite several other teams spending 20 million more than us each year?
    I disagree with a few things, but at the crux of your argument you are arguing that we don't spend enough money, but the reality is that you can't spend more money and have cap space. the Jazz aren't losing because our depth sucks it because other teams have better stars with more playoff experience. the jazz can start getting near the luxury tax once we use the cap space we have this summer. if we someone to a long term deal this summer when we pay donovan mitchell whatever we pay him we will be near the luxury tax for sure. Look at the the Rockets are paying Chris paul for instace the next few years. thats why they are spending more then us.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhopisthename View Post
    I disagree with a few things, but at the crux of your argument you are arguing that we don't spend enough money, but the reality is that you can't spend more money and have cap space. the Jazz aren't losing because our depth sucks it because other teams have better stars with more playoff experience. the jazz can start getting near the luxury tax once we use the cap space we have this summer. if we someone to a long term deal this summer when we pay donovan mitchell whatever we pay him we will be near the luxury tax for sure. Look at the the Rockets are paying Chris paul for instace the next few years. thats why they are spending more then us.
    I agree with everything you are saying. I just think the NBA's salary cap rules suck. Other teams go way over the cap and we can't go over to retain a solid player like Favors. Instead we have to choose between a better free agent or Favors because we can't pay both. What a bunch of BS. Even if we could break the rules and keep Favors we would still be tens of millions below what they are paying for their roster. Isn't that screwed up? We find a good player who wants to stay in this small market and we can't keep him despite paying our roster significantly less.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth View Post
    I agree with everything you are saying. I just think the NBA's salary cap rules suck. Other teams go way over the cap and we can't go over to retain a solid player like Favors. Instead we have to choose between a better free agent or Favors because we can't pay both. What a bunch of BS. Even if we could break the rules and keep Favors we would still be tens of millions below what they are paying for their roster. Isn't that screwed up? We find a good player who wants to stay in this small market and we can't keep him despite paying our roster significantly less.
    out of all the things the NBA does I do think that the salary cap is completely fair with the exception of really poor owners vs very rich ones, but even then the teams who spend alot can't get the same free agents as those that don't. I think that he free agent market is the worst thing about the NBA and its not close. if the Jazz had their current set up in LA we would be heavy favorites to get someone, but as it stand right now LA has only 5th best chance to sign a single major free agent.

  6. #36
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    this is what I was talking about btw

    https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/st...41761567739909

  7. #37
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    He hasn't had the performance stats in the NBA because he has never been healthy a full season. So I agree there is not nba performance statistic that support my claim. Also, my "claim" is that he possesses physical attributes that give him the potential to excel in the evolving NBA other than maybe some of his defensive stats.

    During the playoffs, certain attributes stand out that give players an edge. Switching defenses are important, and Exum can do that because of his size and athleticism. His lack of shooting is a negative, but maybe if he plays a whole season and be healthy a whole offseason, he can get his numbers up to a respectable range.

    So it is not just a got feeling, my argument is based on his physical attributes and how those attributes CAN impact during the playoffs. If finding the next great player was as easy as looking at the stats to see who was good in the past which means they will be good in the future, then anyone could be an NBA GM. The challenge is taking on a chance on a player before they break out... so that is all I am doing.. .just predicting Exum "could" break out given what his strengths are and the direction the NBA is going.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth View Post
    And this is where we disagree. There is no way Exum is a "7 game player" on a contender. Even when healthy Exum was getting only 15 minutes per game, and occasionally getting a DNP from Snyder. So your own coach only thinks he deserves the 9th most minutes. Even when healthy he was only shooting 42% from two and 29% from three. Your talking about the same Exum that has trouble getting the offense in it's sets, looks lost at times, and too often gets outplayed by Neto. When you add in his health history this is just laughable.

    So he played good defense on Harden for a few games last year in the playoffs. So what! We lost that series in 5! I am so tired of this discussion. You have no stats to support your claim just a gut feeling. Just stop. Exum is a bust.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raupie View Post
    He hasn't had the performance stats in the NBA because he has never been healthy a full season. So I agree there is not nba performance statistic that support my claim. Also, my "claim" is that he possesses physical attributes that give him the potential to excel in the evolving NBA other than maybe some of his defensive stats.

    During the playoffs, certain attributes stand out that give players an edge. Switching defenses are important, and Exum can do that because of his size and athleticism. His lack of shooting is a negative, but maybe if he plays a whole season and be healthy a whole offseason, he can get his numbers up to a respectable range.

    So it is not just a got feeling, my argument is based on his physical attributes and how those attributes CAN impact during the playoffs. If finding the next great player was as easy as looking at the stats to see who was good in the past which means they will be good in the future, then anyone could be an NBA GM. The challenge is taking on a chance on a player before they break out... so that is all I am doing.. .just predicting Exum "could" break out given what his strengths are and the direction the NBA is going.
    OK. I read ya. I really hope you are right. I would LOVE it if Exum could replace Rubio next year. The only way I see that working is if you add an elite shooter at the 4 otherwise we still have a huge floor spacing problem. There is no way we can count on him due to his injury history. Anything we get from him is just a bonus.

  9. #39
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    Unless we get a 3rd team involved, it will be almost impossible to trade for Mike Conley, because it will be hard to match his $32 million salary without Favors involved. Otherwise you are looking at a ridiculous combination of players like Ingles, Crowder, and Korver to pull off that deal. That deal doesn't make sense for either team. If Memphis is rebuilding they can likely find a better or younger fit than Favors. It's not impossible, but not very likely.

  10. #40
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    I agree. Without Rubio's contract on the books, no way to match salaries effectively. This will be true for any big contract trade target. Though I could see the Jazz trading for a player and absorbing the whole contract. With a few of our free agents off the books (while keeping favors), we will have 20 million or so in cap space... so we could theoretically help a team clear cap space by trading for a player and not send salary in return...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth View Post
    Unless we get a 3rd team involved, it will be almost impossible to trade for Mike Conley, because it will be hard to match his $32 million salary without Favors involved. Otherwise you are looking at a ridiculous combination of players like Ingles, Crowder, and Korver to pull off that deal. That deal doesn't make sense for either team. If Memphis is rebuilding they can likely find a better or younger fit than Favors. It's not impossible, but not very likely.

  11. #41
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    Technically we can still trade for Rubio for Conley before a certain date, I don't know when that date is exactly, but it would be after the draft. So if we do a trade of sorts it would have to be before his contact is up. But I honestly don't think this is going to happen.

  12. #42
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    I think moving forward we have to still have an eye to build this team through the draft.

    I would put moving up in the draft as a top priority for us this year. I would target a team like the hawks that has multiple kid to late lottery picks. There are many different ways to get back into the lottery especially because after New York at 3 itís a crap shoot.

  13. #43
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    I would look to draft a either Rui Hachimura or Cam Reddish or Jarret Culver or a Darius Garland if he is available. I think there is a few guys in this range that could be excellent players

  14. #44
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    sounds like Rubio has been told that we aren't going to be resigning him. thank god. I have often our worst play was to give him a 3 year deal or something similar

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhopisthename View Post
    sounds like Rubio has been told that we aren't going to be resigning him. thank god. I have often our worst play was to give him a 3 year deal or something similar
    I really doubt the Jazz were as blunt as Ricky is claiming. I'm sure that is how the message was interpreted. The Jazz are always a class organization. They didn't just come out and say you're a low priority.

    Rubio says he wants to have a major role on a team deep into the playoffs. Ha ha, I'll bet. First off, he had a chance a year ago and he was injured for the Houston series. Secondly, does Ricky not know he is a below average starting PG? This comment shows a lack of self awareness. This is like Joe Ingles saying he wants to be in the dunk contest. Ca'mon Ricky. You are a terrific human and a solid player but in today's NBA you can't shoot worth crap. Teams are daring you to beat them by leaving you wide open. I really wished it would have worked out with Rubio. His comments are an attempt to save face after a disappointing season. Good luck next year on the Suns.

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