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  1. #46
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    Jul 2010
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    San Francisco
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    Our best defensive lineups were all with Rubio by FAR. Sadly his shooting is a problem. If it wasn't a problem then he'd be a max money PG. But he's not. He's a decent PG for a fair price. Also remember, he was the one that chewed out the team for not believing in the system against Houston. It wasn't our defense that lost the series, it was the fact that we couldn't hit any shots. Which is ironically also part of the problem with Ricky.

    I love the guy, and how honest he it. His personality fits perfectly with our guys. But his offensive game just doesn't.

    That being said, Tony Jones believes we have the best chance of getting Tobias Harris. I would love for that to happen, but that would mean getting rid of Favors, or trading away for cap space one of Exum or Ingles. And I don't see us getting rid of Ingles at all. I would put my money on Exum getting traded for cash considerations.

  2. #47
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    So it looks like the Nets are going to get Kyrie Irving and experts do not think he would pair well with Deangelo Russel. Also, I read that Russel is friends with Mitchell. So maybe there is opportunity for a good pairing....

    Nets are not going to let him go for nothing, even if they need to clear up space. They are going to offer him the qualifying offer to make him a restricted agent. If he signs it, I believe that means that he can veto any trade and then he becomes a restricted agent next year. So if he signed it, he could force a trade to the Jazz and then he could sign a max contract next summer. He would only be making around 10 million a year if he signs tender... so probably not much of a chance he leaves 17 million on the table (if he thinks he can get a max deal THIS summer).

    But if he does... Jazz could trade for him... give the nets a first round pick or something along those lines. His trade value will be greatly reduced since he can veto trades. Jazz could bring back Favors... therefore retaining his bird rights for next year. They would also have Russel's bird rights next year. Then they could still have enough cap space to sign a player, ideally a stretch 4 type... this year.

    Next year, they would be able to go into the luxury tax to retain their own players and ideally have a championship team...

    Russel - Exum - Neto
    Mitchell - Oneal - Allen
    Ingles - Crowder
    Favors - (Mirotic)
    Gobert - Bradley

    So probably a bit of a long shot... but possible....

  3. #48
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    Jul 2010
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    22,576
    the nets would almost surely be letting him go if they sign kyrie right? like you said its not a great to fit to have both them on the same team. dangelo is so interesting as a player though. he isn't even a year older then donovan so you think there might be growth even though last year was his 4th year. 21-7-4 last year on a pretty mediocre .533 ts%. he had a higher usage then donovan last year. Does not get to the line like at all, but he can certainly get a shot off when he wants too. the question is do you think last year was the growth of a player or did he hit a few more shots then normal and you can't expect him to be that good again.

  4. #49
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    Jul 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raupie View Post
    So it looks like the Nets are going to get Kyrie Irving and experts do not think he would pair well with Deangelo Russel. Also, I read that Russel is friends with Mitchell. So maybe there is opportunity for a good pairing....

    Nets are not going to let him go for nothing, even if they need to clear up space. They are going to offer him the qualifying offer to make him a restricted agent. If he signs it, I believe that means that he can veto any trade and then he becomes a restricted agent next year. So if he signed it, he could force a trade to the Jazz and then he could sign a max contract next summer. He would only be making around 10 million a year if he signs tender... so probably not much of a chance he leaves 17 million on the table (if he thinks he can get a max deal THIS summer).

    But if he does... Jazz could trade for him... give the nets a first round pick or something along those lines. His trade value will be greatly reduced since he can veto trades. Jazz could bring back Favors... therefore retaining his bird rights for next year. They would also have Russel's bird rights next year. Then they could still have enough cap space to sign a player, ideally a stretch 4 type... this year.

    Next year, they would be able to go into the luxury tax to retain their own players and ideally have a championship team...

    Russel - Exum - Neto
    Mitchell - Oneal - Allen
    Ingles - Crowder
    Favors - (Mirotic)
    Gobert - Bradley

    So probably a bit of a long shot... but possible....
    I just reread this. he isn't signing his qualifying offer he is going to get a max the only real question is if the nets would match a max offer or if the nets are just going to release him cause they are getting two max guys. they also might just let him go if they get kyrie because they probably don't want a pissed off player.

  5. #50
    Join Date
    May 2014
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    987
    Quote Originally Posted by Raupie View Post
    So it looks like the Nets are going to get Kyrie Irving and experts do not think he would pair well with Deangelo Russel. Also, I read that Russel is friends with Mitchell. So maybe there is opportunity for a good pairing....

    Nets are not going to let him go for nothing, even if they need to clear up space. They are going to offer him the qualifying offer to make him a restricted agent. If he signs it, I believe that means that he can veto any trade and then he becomes a restricted agent next year. So if he signed it, he could force a trade to the Jazz and then he could sign a max contract next summer. He would only be making around 10 million a year if he signs tender... so probably not much of a chance he leaves 17 million on the table (if he thinks he can get a max deal THIS summer).

    But if he does... Jazz could trade for him... give the nets a first round pick or something along those lines. His trade value will be greatly reduced since he can veto trades. Jazz could bring back Favors... therefore retaining his bird rights for next year. They would also have Russel's bird rights next year. Then they could still have enough cap space to sign a player, ideally a stretch 4 type... this year.

    Next year, they would be able to go into the luxury tax to retain their own players and ideally have a championship team...

    Russel - Exum - Neto
    Mitchell - Oneal - Allen
    Ingles - Crowder
    Favors - (Mirotic)
    Gobert - Bradley

    So probably a bit of a long shot... but possible....
    I think this is well thought out. This really could be our best option if we strike out on a few other guys. He is talented, and the right age. I'm sure we can get caught up in some of his weaknesses, but he could be the best we can get to Utah. Perfect fit like Harris, no. We could do a lot worse.

    I think a more likely scenario would be that we have to release Favors to pay him.

  6. #51
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    May 2014
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    987
    I don't want Favors back. There, I said it. I want a roster with Gobert and 4 shooters. I am completely sold on that strategy. You need at least 3 shooters in today's NBA at all times. With 4 spread out and Gobert rolling we could be great. I think the only reason we have got away with this 2 center "jenky" lineup is because Quinn is a freaking genius. In free agency we just need to grab the best player willing to play on this team. Center is the only exception. We can sign a decent backup center for cheap. Not named Bradley. I hear Jazz fans say "what if Rudy gets hurt?" We're dead. It's not like we were going anywhere without him anyway. The other positions can be moved around. Donavon can be our PG if we want. Royce or Crowder can start if we need. Joe can play multiple positions. Just go get the most talented player possible.

  7. #52
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    Mar 2007
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    1,334
    My head agrees, but my heart does not. We are always told the NBA is a business, but anytime a player and an organization connect and have some loyalty, it is a feel good story. I know it is not about feel good stories, but it is still nice whenever it happens.

    I think we have had the best of Favors the last two years. He has been healthier than he has ever been. In essence, he has been at his climax. So what we have gotten the last two years is not enough, it would be crazy to think that somehow it is going to get better.

    So one big question is... if the Jazz cut Favors, will any teams claim him at his current salary? I have heard many teams interested in him, but none of them with cap space to take him at his current salary. If he does NOT get claimed, Jazz could possibly bring him back at backup center money... if that is the type of money he is going to get, would he prefer to get it from the Jazz?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth View Post
    I don't want Favors back. There, I said it. I want a roster with Gobert and 4 shooters. I am completely sold on that strategy. You need at least 3 shooters in today's NBA at all times. With 4 spread out and Gobert rolling we could be great. I think the only reason we have got away with this 2 center "jenky" lineup is because Quinn is a freaking genius. In free agency we just need to grab the best player willing to play on this team. Center is the only exception. We can sign a decent backup center for cheap. Not named Bradley. I hear Jazz fans say "what if Rudy gets hurt?" We're dead. It's not like we were going anywhere without him anyway. The other positions can be moved around. Donavon can be our PG if we want. Royce or Crowder can start if we need. Joe can play multiple positions. Just go get the most talented player possible.

  8. #53
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    Jul 2010
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    I think favors is a really good player and quite frankly he was really important to us winning 50 games, but we can't afford to pay our backup center that much money when we have so many other holes.

  9. #54
    Join Date
    May 2014
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    987
    Quote Originally Posted by Raupie View Post
    My head agrees, but my heart does not. We are always told the NBA is a business, but anytime a player and an organization connect and have some loyalty, it is a feel good story. I know it is not about feel good stories, but it is still nice whenever it happens.

    I think we have had the best of Favors the last two years. He has been healthier than he has ever been. In essence, he has been at his climax. So what we have gotten the last two years is not enough, it would be crazy to think that somehow it is going to get better.

    So one big question is... if the Jazz cut Favors, will any teams claim him at his current salary? I have heard many teams interested in him, but none of them with cap space to take him at his current salary. If he does NOT get claimed, Jazz could possibly bring him back at backup center money... if that is the type of money he is going to get, would he prefer to get it from the Jazz?
    It's nothing personal to Favors, but if he is still on the roster next year it's because we struck out in free agency. I think someone else is going to pick up Favors. He is worth much more than we can offer. I suppose if he wanted to he could give us a discount and accept a MLE. We would have to cancel his contract first, and other teams then have the right to snatch him in wavers.

    Even if he accepted a MLE would he also accept a role as backup center? Even if the stars alligned and he accepted less money and a role as backup to Rudy do we even want to spend a MLE on a center when we have an all NBA center and can get a decent backup for a million per. No and no. Favors is gone.

  10. #55
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    May 2014
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    987
    The NBA draft is Thursday. If we are getting Conley, I'm sure they want our 1st this year. This week or bust on a Conley deal.

  11. #56
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    Jul 2010
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    I wonder if the Jazz trying to get conley through a trade means that no one wanted to come here

  12. #57
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    May 2014
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    987
    Quote Originally Posted by dhopisthename View Post
    I wonder if the Jazz trying to get conley through a trade means that no one wanted to come here
    I think that is a fair point. I can see us trying for Harris and Russell first in free agency. Ideally we would keep a Conley trade in our back pocket.

  13. #58
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    Jul 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth View Post
    I think that is a fair point. I can see us trying for Harris and Russell first in free agency. Ideally we would keep a Conley trade in our back pocket.
    what I mean is that the Jazz already know who they are and aren't going to be able to get a visit with and who if anyone has interest in joining us. so if the jazz have to pick between a 50/50 on deangelo Russell or trading 2 firsts for conley I think the Jazz have to trade for conley

    what makes it tough for the jazz is that if we sign someone for a max we have to lose favors no matter what. However tony jones was saying that our offer to the grizzlies doesn't involve favors meaning we would be keeping him. not sure how that works or who would have to be involved to get that done, but if say exum, allen, the 23rd pick and a future first plus a minor salary piece like korver can get it done then its much better for us. if we have to add crowder then it gets way worse.

  14. #59
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    Jul 2010
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    So there's a lot of confusion around the Conley trade, people think we have to offer Exum/Favors/Crowder and Korver and picks. I'll clear this up for everyone in here.

    If the Jazz renounce all their rights to all the free agents we will have 12 million dollars in salary cap to work with.

    If we then trade Exum/Korver/and Bradley we will be at exactly what we need under the salary cap (I do believe we will be around 2000 dollars under the cap).

    Favors is not considered a free agent, so this doesn't include him. What it DOES include is renouncing part of our Mid Level Exception. So we would only have 4 million left on our MLE. We would also have 5 million for our Bi-Annual Exception to sign someone. Those things cannot be combined to sign 1 player, they have to be used separately and only on one player/trade.

    Korver wants to retire, so more than Likely the Grizzlies will waive Korver and he'll retire with a 7 million dollar paycheck this year without having to do anything. So it's a win/win for camp Korver.

    If we trade for Conley during the draft then we would have to give up more money, so more than likely if this trade happens, it happens after free agency starts.

  15. #60
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    nowhere
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    Forgive me if it's been reported in here already, but we did trade for Conley. Should be approved on July 6.

    My understanding is gave up:
    Crowder (biggest loss, imo)
    Allen (don't care)
    Korver (gonna retire anyway)
    First round pick this year (no. 23 so I'm indifferent)
    Future first rounder (protected lottery next year)

    Biggest thing is losing a floor-spreading big, and our picks we're pretty thin before and they're even more so now.

    I think next in our list is dumping Exum and maybe Favors. My vote is acquiring a shooting big.
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