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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by spliff(TONE) View Post
    You are as hypocritical and delusional as they come. If you had a salient point anywhere that was actually worth an argument I might embark on such a task. However, I try not to waste too much of my time on hothead know-it-alls that can't have a disagreement without resorting to weak insults and petty nonsense.

    Congrats on providing a few links for things that I wasn't even arguing against though! In case you are so incredibly dense that it needs mentioning once again: I did not disagree with everything Jones said; my one real disagreement was with his reasoning for why Machado has the reputation he does. Once again, you're harping on this "facts and data" thing when you've provided zero facts and data on the thing Jones said that I actually disagree with. That's great if you want to back up what you are saying to someone else with those links but that has nothing to do with me.

    You also continue to show that you, in fact, are the one that isn't quite sure what the term "semantics" means, as arguing over the gap between "being treated differently due to racism" and "being treated differently due to not being white" (which seems to be your only real issue with my comments on this topic that you've been able to properly communicate) is absolutely a case of getting caught up in semantics. Thought I could move on here without having to breakdown this claim of yours but you keep bringing it up like some badge of honor so here we are. I mean, if you prefer we use the term "nitpicking" or "ticky tacky" to describe what you are doing instead, we can do that but how about you move the **** on and focus on something with a little more substance? The difference in terminology we are each choosing to use is insignificant, yet that's all you want to harp on.

    Really looking forward to the next phase of your ill-informed tantrum of sorts.
    The language you use in a headline/title is not insignificant. No matter how much you try to persuade people it doesn't change the article. The fact of the matter is you used a title to make his comments way more inflammatory than they actually are.

    And the fact that you say stuff like "we all saw the playoffs" when he literally says in the article he didn't watch the playoffs is quite telling. It makes it seem like you are very intellectually lazy, and didn't even read the article.

    I'll give you credit btw. There is at least some sort of response in this thread. You still got your patented passive aggressiveness/emojis. But hey. At least you're trying now.

    Edit: And let's be real. Your point in making this thread was to have a circle jerk about how stupid Jones is. There was no plan to have an actual discussion. You made this thread to rage at Adam Jones. It's blatantly obvious. All you have to do is read your 2nd post.
    Last edited by MRSpock; 04-17-2019 at 01:31 PM.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by thawv View Post
    Racism definitely does exist.

    The fact is, the majority of this country doesn't care as much about skin color as some would like to believe. The leftist media will drive it home to the point that people think it's a prominent issue. It's not.
    You know what they say. Reality tends to have a liberal bias.

    Does the media sometimes blow things out of proportion? Sure. The bigger problem is people are stupid. They don't actually care about data or anything. So what does the media do? They appeal to emotion. "Hey look at this guy on twitter who said the 'n' word!" Because people care about what "feels" right. So you can show 100 studies to someone and they will tell you how they "feel" in response. That's why guys like Jeffy will discount a study before he even sees it. Because it contradicts with the way he feels. He's trying to disprove it before he even reads it (not that he would anyway).

    Racism is still a prevalent problem. It affects people's ability to get a job. It affects peoples ability to vote. It affects peoples daily lives. But again people can be shown 100 studies. Then they'll see one video of a radical black nationalist saying "Death to white men" and they go "SEE THEY'RE CRAZY AND THIS IS ALL BS".

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/f...mographics.pdf

    Here's a study that shows the difference in sentencing lengths between demographics, even when accounting for differences in socio-economic standing. I didn't mention it the first time, but it's one of my favorites I have saved.

    http://www.business.uwm.edu/gdrive/R...me%20Study.pdf

    And here's the study about the difference in callbacks based on names. I was pretty off on the numbers from memory. But the study still supports what I said.

    Do you need more?
    Neither of these support the arguments we are having, and the one is from September of 2004. You didn't support any of your arguments here, literally at all.

    You making up a point that didn't have anything to do with the discussion, and then supporting it with outdated data doesn't disprove what I (and now thawv) have said.

    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    OH and here's an article talking about exactly what Jones is talking about. https://deadspin.com/which-words-are...-pr-1573683214
    This link likely better supports Jones arguments. But he's still wrong about Machado being treated differently if he were white. He's disliked because he tries to intentionally hurt other players and dogged it during the playoffs, and then was rewarded with a $300M contract. Other players are upset about that. You'd never hear anyone say a negative word about Andrew McCutchen, would you? But you would hear negative words about Jonathan Papelbon. Players don't like dirty players, period.


    We have all agreed that racism exists. What has been argued is when instances like this, with Jones/Machado, exaggerate the reason the player is disliked and make it about race when race isn't playing any part of the process. It's a clear excuse, and this is the type of thing that won't let racism die it's painful, generational death.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    You know what they say. Reality tends to have a liberal bias.

    Does the media sometimes blow things out of proportion? Sure. The bigger problem is people are stupid. They don't actually care about data or anything. So what does the media do? They appeal to emotion. "Hey look at this guy on twitter who said the 'n' word!" Because people care about what "feels" right. So you can show 100 studies to someone and they will tell you how they "feel" in response. That's why guys like Jeffy will discount a study before he even sees it. Because it contradicts with the way he feels. He's trying to disprove it before he even reads it (not that he would anyway).

    Racism is still a prevalent problem. It affects people's ability to get a job. It affects peoples ability to vote. It affects peoples daily lives. But again people can be shown 100 studies. Then they'll see one video of a radical black nationalist saying "Death to white men" and they go "SEE THEY'RE CRAZY AND THIS IS ALL BS".
    You keep saying I would discount it before I even heard of it. That study was in Freak-a-nomics. I'm well aware of it and have been for over a decade. It's that it didn't disprove my point at all.

  5. #80
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    "Do you want to pull racism based data trends? Do you realize how easy those are to pigeon hole? How devoid of context those consistently are? It's a slippery slope area of discussion. If it were more black and white (pardon the pun), then it wouldn't have such varying opinions and wouldn't be such a hot topic matter."

    This is literally you doing exactly what you're saying you don't do. You are discounting data before you even saw the study....

    Or maybe you did see the study's I posted beforehand. But for whatever reason you feel qualified to decide a study is "devoid of context".

    And the point of posting those study's was to disprove your assertion that "racism is insignificant".

    You were clearly trying to say that racism only exists because people overblow it (which is circular logic at its finest) and that racism is mostly colorblind and insignificant. You did say it "still matters". So you didn't go full autistic alt-right... But you're coming dangerously close.

    And you have still yet to explain your question "How can you expect data on opinion based accusations on opinion based matters?"

    Edit: For example. If I were to say Buster Posey is the worst catcher all-time. This is an opinion based matter and an opinion based accusation. You're telling me that there is no data that can disprove this statement?
    Last edited by MRSpock; 04-17-2019 at 02:10 PM.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    "Do you want to pull racism based data trends? Do you realize how easy those are to pigeon hole? How devoid of context those consistently are? It's a slippery slope area of discussion. If it were more black and white (pardon the pun), then it wouldn't have such varying opinions and wouldn't be such a hot topic matter."

    This is literally you doing exactly what you're saying you don't do. You are discounting data before you even saw the study....

    Or maybe you did see the study's I posted beforehand. But for whatever reason you feel qualified to decide a study is "devoid of context".

    And the point of posting those study's was to disprove your assertion that "racism is insignificant".

    You were clearly trying to say that racism only exists because people overblow it (which is circular logic at its finest) and that racism is mostly colorblind and insignificant. You did say it "still matters". So you didn't go full autistic alt-right... But you're coming dangerously close.

    And you have still yet to explain your question "How can you expect data on opinion based accusations on opinion based matters?"

    Edit: For example. If I were to say Buster Posey is the worst catcher all-time. This is an opinion based matter and an opinion based accusation. You're telling me that there is no data that can disprove this statement?
    No, I never said it ONLY exists because people overblow it. But I did say it won't die.

    Posey being a good catcher is very easy to support with data. The race data you are sharing doesn't say anything about the perceptions of Machado being hated due to not being white because that is entirely opinion based and there is no way to support the argument.

  7. #82
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    Bryce Harper is white and people say worse things about him than Machado

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    No, I never said it ONLY exists because people overblow it. But I did say it won't die.

    Posey being a good catcher is very easy to support with data. The race data you are sharing doesn't say anything about the perceptions of Machado being hated due to not being white because that is entirely opinion based and there is no way to support the argument.
    Why are you switching the conversation? My issue with Spliff is how he worded his title. My issue with you is your claims that racism in America is insignificant and the only reason it won't die is that people overblow it. The studies I presented were to prove that you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to racism in America. And again I could provide 100's of studies. Or even about recent court cases.

    You're trying to snake your way into a separate conversation. This thread is about Adam Jones sure, but you went off topic and said some stupid **** and I called you out on it. Stop trying to change subjects.

  9. #84
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    I wonder what Adam Jones opinion about why people didn't like Jose Bautista was
    YOU JUST MADE THE LIST!!!!!

    HAPPY RUSSEV DAY!!!

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  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkieMark48 View Post
    I wonder what Adam Jones opinion about why people didn't like Jose Bautista was
    Bat flips?

    Which could be a whole different thread on race by itself.
    If Trump can become president with no political background then I don't understand why I need a resumé

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    Why are you switching the conversation? My issue with Spliff is how he worded his title. My issue with you is your claims that racism in America is insignificant and the only reason it won't die is that people overblow it. The studies I presented were to prove that you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to racism in America. And again I could provide 100's of studies. Or even about recent court cases.

    You're trying to snake your way into a separate conversation. This thread is about Adam Jones sure, but you went off topic and said some stupid **** and I called you out on it. Stop trying to change subjects.
    I didn't switch any conversations. Spliff nailed you plenty well on his own, I don't have anything I need to add.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zmaster52 View Post
    Bat flips?

    Which could be a whole different thread on race by itself.
    Well Adam Jones didn't/doesnt like Jose Bautista, they've had their disagreements and I would just be interested in knowing his opinion of a non-white player that wasn't his teammate.
    YOU JUST MADE THE LIST!!!!!

    HAPPY RUSSEV DAY!!!

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  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    I didn't switch any conversations. Spliff nailed you plenty well on his own, I don't have anything I need to add.
    Yes. I know you like to hide behind SPliff while not defending any of your opinions. It's quite cute... Or wait not cute... Pathetic... That's the word.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRSpock View Post
    Yes. I know you like to hide behind SPliff while not defending any of your opinions. It's quite cute... Or wait not cute... Pathetic... That's the word.
    I've literally never 'hidden' behind anyone, he just said every thing I could have said before I did, and probably better.

    You are clearly argumentative, antagonistic, and for some reason have an issue with shifting goal posts wherever you see fit in order to show every one how culturally sensitive you are. It's a shtick, it's annoying, and it's not worth anyone's time.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    I've literally never 'hidden' behind anyone, he just said every thing I could have said before I did, and probably better.

    You are clearly argumentative, antagonistic, and for some reason have an issue with shifting goal posts wherever you see fit in order to show every one how culturally sensitive you are. It's a shtick, it's annoying, and it's not worth anyone's time.
    Yeah, I'm a bit of a dick. And I haven't shifted a single goal post. All I've done with you is continuously challenge you on your stupid assertions. That you can't back up an opinionated accusation with facts. Or that racism won't die because people overblow things. Or how racism nowadays is insignificant. I've continued to push you on these subjects, and you've continued to dodge any conversation on the topic that YOU brought up.

    You are someone who likes to make outlandish claims and then not back any of them up. I've called you out on 3 or 4 of your ignorant statements and you continue to try to pivot away from your stupidity. That's why you continuously bring up Adam Jones. You know damn well my argument with you had nothing to do with Adam Jones but your ridiculously ignorant claims about racism in America.

    Trying to say I'm "standing on a soapbox" or that I'm "virtue signaling" is not an argument. The truth is like I said at the beginning. You are out of your depth in this topic. You are doing nothing but spewing the dumb **** you can find on 4chan or youtube. Just unsubstantiated claims based off of ignorance.

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