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  1. #1336
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    How much help did Russ actually have? It's hard to win in the West, period. Losing Robeson hurt them tremendously too. Anthony Davis put up great stats and was knocked out all the time too, Paul George, Giannis till this year, Cousins most years, Jimmy Butler most years, Kyrie just got his butt kicked. Doesn't mean they're not great players, ran into better teams. List of PG's who can match Russ in a 7 game series is short. Honestlt think if they replaced any of the point guards in the last 10 years with Russ, their team wouldn't have won? Russ, Lebron, Love? Russ, Thompson, KD, Green? Russ, Kawhi, rest of the Raptors?

    People want to keep bringing up his very early years with KD, Harden, and Ibaka, but they were all very young and young teams rarely win, especially when facing the Spurs and Lakers back then. Almost beat the super Warriors with just him and KD, KD choked way more than he did.
    Last edited by infinity2152; 07-08-2019 at 07:00 PM.

  2. #1337
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    Quote Originally Posted by dabears34ft View Post
    I'm going to make a comparison, not by types of players, but by 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th options and veteran additions (Iggy/Livingston & Thad/Satoransky) on the Warriors (Pre KD) and Bulls. This idea that we need to rush this rebuild and trade away half our assets for a ball hogging stat stuffing PG like Russ just don't make sense. We are still so far away from a complete product, but this will be the 1st year that we have a legitimate roster with players that compliment each other well, and veterans that will help push our young guys to the next level.

    Number 1 options

    Per 36 Steph's at 24 years old was:

    21.6 PPG
    3.8 RPG
    6.5 APG
    1.5 SPG
    2.9 TPG
    45/45/90 Shooting %'s

    Per 36 Lavine's at 23 years old was:

    24.7 PPG
    4.9 RPG
    4.7 APG
    1.0 SPG
    3.6 TPG
    46/37/83 Shooting %'s

    Both are widely known as liabilities on defense. So throw defense out. When it comes to offense, Lavine's upside is right on par with Curry's. They do it in different ways. Lavine is more of a threat to drive and get to the line. Curry is the greatest 3 point shooter of all time. Steph peaked statistically on offense at age 27 as a 30 PPG scorer. I would like to think that Lavine could bump his PPG totals 5 points over the next 4 years, if it takes him that long.

    Number 2 options

    Per 36 Klay at 21 years old:

    18.5 PPG
    3.6 RPG
    3.0 APG
    1.1 SPG
    .4 BPG
    2.3 TPG
    2.6 3PM
    44/41/86 Shooting %'s

    Per 36 Lauri at 21 years old:

    20.8 PPG
    10.1 RPG
    1.6 APG
    .8 SPG
    .7 BPG
    1.8 TPG
    2.6 3PM
    43/36/87 Shooting %'s

    Klay and Lauri are both the 2nd options on their teams respectively (with the exception after KD arrived). At 21, can you say that Klay is head and shoulders above Lauri? Lauri is 5 years away from his prime still. His trajectory is basically elite. In Lauri's 2nd season, he's putting up better numbers then HOFer Dirk did PER 36 in his 3rd season. and Dirk was 187 games deep into his career at that point. Lauri has played 119 games. To sit here and assume that Lauri doesn't have elite upside is ridiculously pessimistic to say the least.

    Defensive Anchors

    Per 36 Draymond Green at 24 years old:

    13.3 PPG
    9.4 RPG
    4.2 APG
    1.5 SPG
    1.4 BPG
    1.9 TPG
    1.6 3PM
    44/33/66 Shooting %'s

    Per 36 Wendell Carter Jr. at 19 years old:

    14.8 PPG
    10.0 RPG
    2.5 APG
    .8 SPG
    1.9 BPG
    2.1 TPG
    .2 3PM
    48/18/79 Shooting %'s

    Wendell Carter's stats at 19 years old, aside from Assists and 3 point shooting, were actually on par with what Dray was doing at 24 years old. He is still extremely raw, but has shown signs of being a plus Rim Protector. He compares pretty much to the T to Al Horford. As a 4th scoring option, I think you could do a lot worse then a 19 year old putting up those numbers. As a defender, he could be a top 10-15 C in the league.

    Veteran Role Player Additions

    Per 36 Andre Iguodala at 30 years old:

    10.4 PPG
    5.2 RPG
    4.6 APG
    1.7 SPG
    .3 BPG
    1.8 TPG
    1.1 3PM
    48/35/65 Shooting %'s

    Per 36 Thad Young at 30 years old:

    14.8 PPG
    7.6 RPG
    3.0 APG
    1.8 SPG
    .5 BPG
    1.8 TPG
    .7 3PM
    52/34/64 Shooting %'s

    When it comes to vet role players, I think Thad was the perfect fit for us. We needed a more modern NBA big to complement Lauri and Wendell, and Thad is that guy 100%! He can play PF along side either 1, and he could also play limited minutes at the 3 if we wanted to go big. He will give us the veteran leadership and spark off the bench that we need. If you go by PER 36 for their careers, Thad actually had the more efficient career. Iggy was the better passer by far, but at the same point Iggy went to GSW and Thad is joining us, Thad is more productive and efficient.


    Per 36 Shaun Livingston at 28 years old (Last year with with Nets before going to GSW)

    11.5 PPG
    4.5 RPG
    4.5 APG
    1.7 SPG
    .6 BPG
    1.9 TPG
    0.0 3PM
    48/16/82 Shooting %'s

    Per 36 Tomas Satoransky at 27 years old

    11.8 PPG
    4.6 RPG
    6.6 APG
    1.4 SPG
    .2 BPG
    2.0 TPG
    1.1 3PM
    48/39/81 Shooting %'s

    These 2 are actually a good comparison. They both came to our teams respectively around the same age, and both put up very similar numbers as oversized PG's. Satoransky is the better 3 point shooter by far. That isn't part of Shuan's game. Livingston is a very efficient shooter from 10-15 feet from the hoop, and he's a smart player who poses matchup problems for most PG's.

    WILDCARD 3rd/4th options

    Per 36 Harrison Barnes Career Numbers

    15.9 PPG
    5.7 RPG
    1.8 APG
    .8 SPG
    .2 BPG
    1.4 TPG
    1.4 3PG
    44/37/79 Shooting %'s

    Per 36 Otto Porter Career Numbers

    14.7 PPG
    6.7 RPG
    2.0 APG
    1.6 SPG
    .6 BPG
    1.1 TPG
    1.8 3PM
    48/40/79 Shooting %'s

    Barnes and Porter's Career's actually compare pretty well. Overall though, Porter is the more efficient shooter and slightly better Rebounder and Defender. Barnes is probably the more willing and natural scorer. As 3rd/4th option 3 and D wings, I'd take Porter over Barnes.
    This took way too much work but seriously this team is just young..... Not bad. This team has been trying to tank. (Obvioualy it has not worked as well as hoped) we have had our big guys play a total of what.... 9 games together and look good. By the moves this offseason of signing quality role players like Satoransky and Thad means we are going to try to win now and I dont think anyone else can question why. If the bulls dont show something Garpax will be on the hot seat.

    The big questions I have is the coach. But lets be real the Wariors got by with Mark Jackson prior to Kerr. Mark never won and was considered a poor coach. Has never been hired again. Yet the Wariors then hired Kerr after him and won. Its not inconceivable that Boylen can get us to the playoffs. And make it so a real good candidate sees us as a good team to coach.

    The truth is perception changes a ton with winning. This FO wont look like a laughing stock if they end up in the playoffs with this young core.

  3. #1338
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    Quote Originally Posted by KG2TB View Post
    Russ took nearly 6 3s per game last season. And shot 29%. 29! To say that is criminal is an understatement. That is a disgusting stat and those bad shots absolutely effect games, momentum, frustration from teammates etc. Once that athleticism goes, and the miles start to keep up, he’s going to be even more inefficient. Hell, is eFG% for his career is 46%. That’s absurdly bad. And it’s not like his best years are much better than 46%. Someone is going to regret trading for him down the road. Probably Miami.
    People here wanted Lonzo (who is arguably worse) don't be surprised by anything in this forun.

  4. #1339
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    Westbrook will go to Miami so y’all can stop *****ing.

    1. Bucks
    2. Sixers
    3. Pacers
    4. Celtics
    5. Nets
    6. Heat
    7. Raptors
    8. Pistons
    9. Magic

    We’re basically gonna be fighting with 2 playoff teams from last year for the 8th seed, if we’re lucky and actually win games. But go ahead and pray for that superstar in 2021.

  5. #1340
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChI_ShIzzLe View Post
    Westbrook will go to Miami so y’all can stop *****ing.

    1. Bucks
    2. Sixers
    3. Pacers
    4. Celtics
    5. Nets
    6. Heat
    7. Raptors
    8. Pistons
    9. Magic

    We’re basically gonna be fighting with 2 playoff teams from last year for the 8th seed, if we’re lucky and actually win games. But go ahead and pray for that superstar in 2021.
    we were going to be fighting for the 8th seed with him. why is this so hard to understand. you dont get without giving. hes not a UFA.

  6. #1341
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinity2152 View Post
    How much help did Russ actually have? It's hard to win in the West, period. Losing Robeson hurt them tremendously too. Anthony Davis put up great stats and was knocked out all the time too, Paul George, Giannis till this year, Cousins most years, Jimmy Butler most years, Kyrie just got his butt kicked. Doesn't mean they're not great players, ran into better teams. List of PG's who can match Russ in a 7 game series is short. Honestlt think if they replaced any of the point guards in the last 10 years with Russ, their team wouldn't have won? Russ, Lebron, Love? Russ, Thompson, KD, Green? Russ, Kawhi, rest of the Raptors?

    People want to keep bringing up his very early years with KD, Harden, and Ibaka, but they were all very young and young teams rarely win, especially when facing the Spurs and Lakers back then. Almost beat the super Warriors with just him and KD, KD choked way more than he did.
    russ is 30, has no actual offensive game and will be drastically overpaid in less than 2 years.

    he literally cant shoot and when his athleticism goes he will literally be league average. hes not going to figure out how to shoot at this stage in his career.

  7. #1342
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farty Farts View Post
    we were going to be fighting for the 8th seed with him. why is this so hard to understand. you dont get without giving. hes not a UFA.
    Go see the thread in the main forum. Everyone agrees his value is trash and teams won’t give up much more than contracts and draft picks, unless some team like the Knicks get desperate and throw their young talent at them.

  8. #1343
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    Quote Originally Posted by KG2TB View Post
    The bulls will 100% strike out on giannis.
    Why. You could have said the same of the nets and Durrant 2 years ago. I hate this notion that we are bound to strike out.

    I think if the Bucks fail to inprove ( which based on the moves they have made they wont) he could get frustrated. Hell ge seemed frustrated this year.

    I think you could easily make a sales pitch moving less than 2 hours away. To a big name city. To play with a group of guys who by that time are getting into their primes.

    I think things need to occur for this though. We need to win. We need to look like a team who has enough potential that we are a star away. And I think all the concerns disapear with a little winning.

  9. #1344
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChI_ShIzzLe View Post
    Westbrook will go to Miami so y’all can stop *****ing.

    1. Bucks
    2. Sixers
    3. Pacers
    4. Celtics
    5. Nets
    6. Heat
    7. Raptors
    8. Pistons
    9. Magic

    We’re basically gonna be fighting with 2 playoff teams from last year for the 8th seed, if we’re lucky and actually win games. But go ahead and pray for that superstar in 2021.
    Why are the Celtics who lost 2 stars to sign Walker locked into anything. Why are the nets who wont have KD 75% of the season. Why are the raptors after loosing Kawai and or Derozan. Why are the pistons or magic anything.

    I think you don't realize how wide open the east is.

  10. #1345
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamnGoat View Post
    Yep.

    Holding out hope for that is delusional. Obviously, if you're the Bulls, you have to plan for that, but how many times do they need to whiff badly on these guys before fans understand it just ain't happening with this FO?

    Their only chance of landing a superstar is in the draft or via trade, assuming they ever grow balls big enough to execute one.
    trading for one who has no offensive game, on the clear downside of his career at 40+ per year is clearly a move they need to make......not!

    i do care that they dont get them, but guess what there are 25 other teams that dont sign superstar free agents too.

    you can say they dont have the balls to move up in the draft, thats valid. but to say they are worse than every other team in the nba when it comes to landing superstars is false.

    guess what trading for a player that wouldnt sign here makes no sense. being here wont change their minds. trading for a guy in his 30's because hes under contract, on the downside of his career....makes no sense. we could have prime jordan under a 20 year contract, with a guarantee he would be prime jordan for all 20 years and if dudes dont want to sign here, they wont.

    you dont unload your roster to roll the dice for a guy that you probably arent going to have for 10 years and wont sign anyone else to go with him. thats just dumb. thats how you end up in a 10 year rebuild. you trade for said player, dont win anything. said player leaves/retires. you have no roster left over. have to tank for years to rebuild the team, and thats just to get a chance to rebuild. then decide if you want to keep your young promising players that you recently drafted or make the same mistakes all over again.

  11. #1346
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    Bulls Trade and Acquisitions Thread 2019 Off-Season

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyben36 View Post
    Why are the Celtics who lost 2 stars to sign Walker locked into anything. Why are the nets who wont have KD 75% of the season. Why are the raptors after loosing Kawai and or Derozan. Why are the pistons or magic anything.

    I think you don't realize how wide open the east is.
    Because they have relatively the same rosters that made the playoffs last year, if not improved?

    I’ve made the justification that we won 22 games last year because of the injuries and total ineptness at the start of the season with Parker and Holiday starting. But the fact remains we won 22 games and these guys will have to prove they can stay healthy, and most importantly, win.

    I honestly don’t give a ******* about 2021 because we’re not getting any big time star FA. I just want this team in the playoffs and start to change the culture around the organization, which is complete trash right now. No one wants to be a part of trash.

  12. #1347
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyben36 View Post
    Why. You could have said the same of the nets and Durrant 2 years ago. I hate this notion that we are bound to strike out.

    I think if the Bucks fail to inprove ( which based on the moves they have made they wont) he could get frustrated. Hell ge seemed frustrated this year.

    I think you could easily make a sales pitch moving less than 2 hours away. To a big name city. To play with a group of guys who by that time are getting into their primes.

    I think things need to occur for this though. We need to win. We need to look like a team who has enough potential that we are a star away. And I think all the concerns disapear with a little winning.
    Why did KD choose the Nets? Wasn’t really because of talent. KD is a weird guy. This is the same guy who creates burner accounts to respond to fans on Twitter. He chose to team up with another overrated PG in Kyrie. The guys not working with a full deck. I also don’t know who the VP and GM are in Brooklyn but I could guarantee they’re more likable, personable, and have a better rep across the league than Garpax. Giannis isn’t coming here.

  13. #1348
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    God damn the negitivity and excuses are rediculous. If you have no hope go find a new team. To be this negitive and stick around makes you a self abusing *** hole. Im domt arguing about it. We will see how tones change when this team is healthy and winning.

  14. #1349
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    Am I the only one who isnt in love with the idea of Holiday. I am fine moving dunn but we really need a bench 3 as I am not convinced on Hutch. Holiday can play the 3 a bit but he isn't ideally playing there either.

    Is there any hope for Denzel or have we given up.
    Last edited by Kyben36; 07-08-2019 at 08:23 PM.

  15. #1350
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    If the Griz have any interest in Dunn. We should try and package hin Felecio and Denzel for Iggy.

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