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  1. #1591
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    I have a question about a couple rosters. What does everyone think about the Pacers and Nets.

    The Pacers are likely without Oladipo until January. That's near half the season. I don't think replacing Collison/Bojan/Thad with Brogdon/Lamb/Warren makes them better and I'd argue it makes them worse. They were 16-23 without Oladipo last year, with a deeper team with better veterans. They could easily be well under .500 at the midway point.

    Are the Nets really that much better with Kyrie. Assume KD misses the whole season because that's what it sounds like. I can't imagine they will play DJ and Allen together. They don't really have a legit PF this year. They are listing Kurucs and Prince there. They lost depth with Carroll, RHJ moving on. Kyrie has missed at least 10 games in all but 1 season in his entire career. He missed 22 and 15 regular season games the last 2 years. On average he misses 18 games a season. Can they really make the playoffs with Kyrie missing 12-15, and KD playing zero games? I'm not so sure about that. They have 2 good rim running Centers, but both are offensive liabilities, and they can't play together. They have no PF's. I don't even think they are better than last year with Kyrie over Russell, because they lost a good amount of depth. Obviously they are a contender with KD, but he isn't playing any time soon.

    To me these are sure fire playoff teams at all.

  2. #1592
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    i'd do derozan for porter jr and the garpax special of an unneeded second round pick. derozan is more likely to not exercise his option than porter jr, and head west next summer.

    i dont want to hear arguments, i mean you guys will make them anyway. about how derozan makes this team worse or better, im not interested in that, this team isnt winning it all in 2019, not even close.

  3. #1593
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    The more I look at Satoransky's numbers at 27 compared to Joe Ingles at 31, I think we got a potential steal in that signing. They have almost identical 3 point %'s, but Sato's FG% and FT% is better. Sato's assist rate is also higher. There SPG and TPG rates are similar. The only thing that Joe has been better at is RPG and 3PM. With the minutes bump for Sato, I think he's going to put up numbers similar if not better than Ingles, and Ingles is a pretty damn good role player.

  4. #1594
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    I don't like Derozan at all. He is a solid player but he is a post up 2 who wont thrive as a 3. I would rather stick with porter and the great fit he has and make Lavine and Lauri step up.

    I can see why some might say yes. But I also don't see this dillusional they will give him to us for Porter scenario. Which everyone keep proposing for everyone. Nobody wants porter that bad. We gave up 2 expirings for him. Unless we include a ton of picks which u know garpax won't.

    Also don't like the idea that u have to resign him. Either next offseason or in 2021.
    Last edited by Kyben36; 07-17-2019 at 12:03 AM.

  5. #1595
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    If we were trading for Derozan, Iíd assume Lavine would be the chip. Derozan is ball dominant. Heís signal trying to compete now. Thatís a better fit at SG next to Porter than at SF next to Lavine. Iíd say Going into his 30 year old season, Derozan has 3-5 elite years left. I guess itís preference. 1 guy has peaked the other is entering his prime. Standing pat doesnít seem all that bad here. At the same time, Iíd like our chances at the playoffs with Derozan, but if we donít think we can be a title contender with that core, donít do it

  6. #1596
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    Quote Originally Posted by dabears34ft View Post
    If we were trading for Derozan, Iíd assume Lavine would be the chip. Derozan is ball dominant. Heís signal trying to compete now. Thatís a better fit at SG next to Porter than at SF next to Lavine. Iíd say Going into his 30 year old season, Derozan has 3-5 elite years left. I guess itís preference. 1 guy has peaked the other is entering his prime. Standing pat doesnít seem all that bad here. At the same time, Iíd like our chances at the playoffs with Derozan, but if we donít think we can be a title contender with that core, donít do it
    I agree with the fit. Lavine and Derozan may be athletic but they are both ball dominant neither would be good defenders for their positions IMO. And once again stop thinking you will be able to get something for nothing with Otto porter. It would take 3 years of first to pull it off like that and Garpax won't do that.

    It would remind me of Gay and Derozan back in the day and how that failed in everything but 2K.

    But seriously if you going to trade for him it likely takes Zack. And to me your basically trading a 23 year old who is as good as the 30 year old who your trading for. Its basically we cant wait make this work now move with this core that is just too young.

    I mean if we arnt pretending he is just given away. Zack lavine vs him are basically identical at this point.

    https://www.basketball-reference.com...01&idx=players

    I also hate trading for a 30 YO athletic based player. Plus he was awful shooting the 3 ball last year. Maybe its an anomoly but Porter is a great off ball player to fill in around Zach and Lauri.

  7. #1597
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    If we trade Lavine for Derozan, we might as well have traded Lauri, Wendy, Dunn, 7th for AD.

    Let this next wave of rebuilt teams run their course. We are set up for 2021. By then, all the teams that went big this summer and failed will be dumping players left and right. We will be sitting there with money, assets, and a chance at a dynasty.

  8. #1598
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    Quote Originally Posted by dabears34ft View Post
    If we trade Lavine for Derozan, we might as well have traded Lauri, Wendy, Dunn, 7th for AD.

    Let this next wave of rebuilt teams run their course. We are set up for 2021. By then, all the teams that went big this summer and failed will be dumping players left and right. We will be sitting there with money, assets, and a chance at a dynasty.
    You should work for the Bulls PR department. Not even an organizational mouthpiece like KC Johnson writes a puff piece like this.

    Let's have a winning season, maybe make the playoffs for the first time in a few years before talking dynasty, lol.
    Last edited by DamnGoat; 07-17-2019 at 03:10 PM.

  9. #1599
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    Lol gotta love dabears.

  10. #1600
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    Quote Originally Posted by DamnGoat View Post
    You should work for the Bulls PR department. Not even an organizational mouthpiece like KC Johnson writes a puff piece like this.

    Let's have a winning season, maybe make the playoffs for the first time in a few years before talking dynasty, lol.
    Hey I'm not saying we are there, or we will get there. I just like the path we are taking, and I'm not ready to sit here and trade away young assets before they reach their peak, for a slim chance at a championship. That's how I would view us if we landed Derozan. Maybe a top 4 team in the East, but not a likely title contender. Sure I think he could make us better in the short term, and would probably guarantee us a playoff spot, but I'd rather see what we have with Lavine, who hasn't even reached his peak, rather than trade for Derozan who is going to start declining in a few years. If it was for Kawhi or Giannis, that's a whole different story. Kawhi and Giannis are franchise changing players. Derozan isn't.

    I think the only difference between me and most of you, is I gave our FO a pass on the Rose era, because they got royally ****ed with him getting hurt in the 1st year of a max 5 year contract. From that point on, we were never going to win **** until we rid ourselves of that contract. I also don't care much about the 1 year they tried to build around Butler. I could see from a management stand point why you might try that, and at least they did it by giving out a 1 year 2nd year Team option to Rondo and a 1 year 2nd year Player option to Wade. It didn't set us back all that much. 1 wasted year before we started to rebuild. It didn't hurt Butler's value at all, and I think they've done a great job since that trade.

    Now if they would have traded for Ball, I would have jumped ship on our Management in a heart beat. Or if they do something stupid like trade for a washed up veteran like Paul. If they **** up this rebuild, I'll be right there with everyone pissed off, moping around, praying they fire GarPax yesterday.

    I knew the day Rose tore his meniscus in Portland that we weren't going to be good until the Lebron James era ended. I can remember exactly where I was. Sitting in the poker room at the Horseshoe Hammond, with my hands on my head saying "Are you ****ing kidding me" out loud. Of course the year we had the Cavs down 2-1 and were up 2 with seconds left, I had a slight resurgence of hope, but that was short lived. I remember exactly where I was for that too. Me and my soccer team went for Post Game Drinks and BBQ in South Bend. What a miserable ending that was lol.

  11. #1601
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    They did way too many questionable decisions even before the Rose debacle. They have a proven track record of over valuing their own talent. They have zero balls to make any kind of aggressive move even though they have unlimited security. They have created a culture that deters super stars from coming here. On top of this they have a cheap *** owner.

    Can they draft some good talent? Sure.

    Do I have any confidence in them assembling a championship caliber roster? Zero.

  12. #1602
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    Quote Originally Posted by dabears34ft View Post
    Hey I'm not saying we are there, or we will get there. I just like the path we are taking, and I'm not ready to sit here and trade away young assets before they reach their peak, for a slim chance at a championship. That's how I would view us if we landed Derozan. Maybe a top 4 team in the East, but not a likely title contender. Sure I think he could make us better in the short term, and would probably guarantee us a playoff spot, but I'd rather see what we have with Lavine, who hasn't even reached his peak, rather than trade for Derozan who is going to start declining in a few years. If it was for Kawhi or Giannis, that's a whole different story. Kawhi and Giannis are franchise changing players. Derozan isn't.

    I think the only difference between me and most of you, is I gave our FO a pass on the Rose era, because they got royally ****ed with him getting hurt in the 1st year of a max 5 year contract. From that point on, we were never going to win **** until we rid ourselves of that contract. I also don't care much about the 1 year they tried to build around Butler. I could see from a management stand point why you might try that, and at least they did it by giving out a 1 year 2nd year Team option to Rondo and a 1 year 2nd year Player option to Wade. It didn't set us back all that much. 1 wasted year before we started to rebuild. It didn't hurt Butler's value at all, and I think they've done a great job since that trade.

    Now if they would have traded for Ball, I would have jumped ship on our Management in a heart beat. Or if they do something stupid like trade for a washed up veteran like Paul. If they **** up this rebuild, I'll be right there with everyone pissed off, moping around, praying they fire GarPax yesterday.

    I knew the day Rose tore his meniscus in Portland that we weren't going to be good until the Lebron James era ended. I can remember exactly where I was. Sitting in the poker room at the Horseshoe Hammond, with my hands on my head saying "Are you ****ing kidding me" out loud. Of course the year we had the Cavs down 2-1 and were up 2 with seconds left, I had a slight resurgence of hope, but that was short lived. I remember exactly where I was for that too. Me and my soccer team went for Post Game Drinks and BBQ in South Bend. What a miserable ending that was lol.
    Yeah it definitely is more than just the Rose situation. When Paxson took the job in 2003, He was very creative in the moves he made. He was like Danny ainge in terms of trading. Deng(#7) for a future first that became the #22. Trading Eddy Curry to the Knicks and the result being Thabo, Asik, Noah, and Tyrus Thomas( even though it was botched). Signing Wallace and seeing if he could draw KG to force his way here. Getting a first for the draft bust that was Tyrus. Getting Rose ( don't see why people say they lucked in to him, its called a lottery for a reason ) and bring in vet help in Brad Miller and John Salmons.

    Then when Gar took over, He signs a bad fit in Boozer. Trades Rose for a guy he liked in the draft instead of a future pick. Trades up in the McDermott trade and sites shooting when he could have hade two 3&D guys in Gary Harris and Rodney hood. Draft a PG that no one wanted in that draft and site that he fell to you. When everyone except Gar wanted Green. Not moving Gasol to the Kings that would have unprotected that pick they had that ended up being #8 that year( could have had Sabonis). Trading Taj and McDermott and instead of going for the 1st, they again trade for a young pg that they previously liked in the draft.

    This is without mentioning everytime someone should have been fired they tried to mask it. Gar should have been fired but instead Pax becomes more hands on. Pax and Gar should be gone, here comes Doug Collins.

  13. #1603
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    The biggest problem to me is they have a bad reputation around the league. Players, agents, Thibs, VDN, JVG, and other teams around the league (if you listen to chatter), all have negative things to say about management. Thatís not good. I know some will chalk it up as heresay but itís not. Their rep is very well and itís for a reason. Theyíre shady, douche bags. Believe it or not, players take that into account. Especially todayís generation of stars. The only way they get guys to sign here is by outbidding everyone else for 2nd/3rd tier, past their prime vets. See Ben Wallace, Pau Gasol, Carlos Boozer.

  14. #1604
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  15. #1605
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChitownbullsBG7 View Post
    Yeah it definitely is more than just the Rose situation. When Paxson took the job in 2003, He was very creative in the moves he made. He was like Danny ainge in terms of trading. Deng(#7) for a future first that became the #22. Trading Eddy Curry to the Knicks and the result being Thabo, Asik, Noah, and Tyrus Thomas( even though it was botched). Signing Wallace and seeing if he could draw KG to force his way here. Getting a first for the draft bust that was Tyrus. Getting Rose ( don't see why people say they lucked in to him, its called a lottery for a reason ) and bring in vet help in Brad Miller and John Salmons.

    Then when Gar took over, He signs a bad fit in Boozer. Trades Rose for a guy he liked in the draft instead of a future pick. Trades up in the McDermott trade and sites shooting when he could have hade two 3&D guys in Gary Harris and Rodney hood. Draft a PG that no one wanted in that draft and site that he fell to you. When everyone except Gar wanted Green. Not moving Gasol to the Kings that would have unprotected that pick they had that ended up being #8 that year( could have had Sabonis). Trading Taj and McDermott and instead of going for the 1st, they again trade for a young pg that they previously liked in the draft.

    This is without mentioning everytime someone should have been fired they tried to mask it. Gar should have been fired but instead Pax becomes more hands on. Pax and Gar should be gone, here comes Doug Collins.
    Good post.

    It's been waaaay more than what happened to Rose. I won't deny they've done some good things... trading Butler, finally moving on from Rose, some of their draft picks. The bad far outweighs the good by now though. That's kind of undeniable IMO. Most FO's would have been fired years ago, yet they're very lucky to work for Reinsdorf.

    Anyway, I don't have a problem with him being optimistic, but some of it borders on delusional. There's very little to point to in this FO's tenure that says they can land a superstar outside of the draft or build a title contender. 2021 is almost certainly another swing and a miss...yet some here are actually banking on it.

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