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  1. #1531
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    I wanna Conduct a very quick experiment to prove that some of this bulls roster wont make the playoffs stuff is just dressed up in the idea that they are on the bulls and these people are undervaluing our players.

    So Let me ask you this

    IF we had a Roster of

    PG Fred Van Fleet
    SG Donovan Mitchell
    SF Deandre Hunter
    PF Kristaps Porziņģis
    C Al Horford

    Would that be a playoff team in the east (baring health). I think Most in here would say Yes, Mitchell and Porzingis are a solid 1/2. Al Horford is a solid 3rd option big man and Van Fleet and Hunter are solid role players to fill in. And in the weak east this team is probably a top 4 team.

    Now, There is a very specific reason I chose each and every one of these players. They are all almost IDENTICAL to the ones we have on our roster today, but for some reason the Bulls logo and loosing/tanking culture we have had has skewed your minds to think they suck and cant be stars


    .................................................. ...........

    Lets Star With Van Fleet, Obviously I think people are high on him right now because of the playoffs. But lets be real and compare him side by side to Thomas Satoransky

    https://www.basketball-reference.com...01&idx=players

    Van Fleet Scores a little more but their assist numbers, 3 pt % Steels TO are all almost identical. Thomas is actually a slightly better Shooter from both 3 and 2 with a higher FG % as well. But overall I think these two compare very favorably to one another.

    .................................................. ...........

    Next we have Mitchell VS Lavine And I think people will be very surprised by just how close these two measure up.

    https://www.basketball-reference.com...01&idx=players

    Basically across the board they line up identically. So why is Mitchell seen as a star in the NBA and Lavine seen as some 2nd or 3rd option by some (some not even sure he can be that). Why is Mitchell the guy who has lead the jazz to the playoffs. and a #1 star type guy. the fact is its winning and perception, not play based, Actually in reality people fail to realize that overall Mitchell is rather Inefficient. shoots alot of 3s for a guy who isnt a great shooter. and shoots a pretty poor FG % for somebody who is a #1 option. He is a good player, but so is Zack Lavine


    .................................................. ...........

    Next we have Otto Porter JR vs Deandre Hunter. And I actually hate this one because you cant really compare stats. However it is hard to find somebody who compares favorably to porter who is a really solid role player that has a better stigma. the guy I wanted to go with is on another loosing team so it likely would not help perception and that would be Taurean Prince. Who is basically identical to Porter But because he has been on the hawks and it is likely nobody would see that as an upgrade because he is on a loosing team too. however taking a top 4 pick that porter is bound to out perform I think is proof Fans have some sort of negative stigma about bulls players and would love Hunter as a 3/D. Porter is a fine 3/D man, overpaid but good roster player and actually better than Hunter at this point for sure.

    FWIW here are the Prince and Porter stats.

    https://www.basketball-reference.com...01&idx=players

    .................................................. ...........

    Next we have Lauri vs Porzings. and its hard to gauge how people feel on porzingis but nobody can deny he has had alot more hype and media atention in NY than Lauri has. Looking at their 2nd seasons though Lauri is basically identical to KP.

    https://www.basketball-reference.com...01&idx=players

    I would not at all be surprised to see Lauri take another leap next year. If he develops a go to move his size and skill are just hard to stop. I think people just fail to see the fact that Lauri has this potential again because for whatever reason Lauri is a bulls and bulls are bad. We cant possibly develop a star player even though Lauri is averaging 20 points per 30 at 21.

    .................................................. ...........

    Last but not least we have Carter vs Al Horford. and I think this one could get me into some hot water so hear me out. I know what some of you will say, Horford is Carters best case scenario and you cant compare him to him at this point. and I agree. however I dont think we are talking about PRIME HORFORD either. he is 32 years old and I am trying to show how name and perception seem to skew your thoughts.

    https://www.basketball-reference.com...01&idx=players

    I mean per 36 he is only 2 points off as a 19 year old rok than Horford last year. He was a better rebounder, and while Horford yes offers alot in terms of passing for a big man. I would not be surprised to see Wendell Take a leap forward from last year. to the point where he may be considered a beter player than Horford at his age. But this is another example where people see the name Horford and say he is a good player based on his name and history and fail to realize he is a 33 year old shell of his allstar self. I mean nobody wants to mention how the Celtics struggled and how Horford the past 2 years has been a 13/7 Big man who is hardly irreplaceable.


    But this is just a thought, I just think there are some in the forum who cant see past these guys despite their success. Refuse to give them the chance they could be good even though they already are. I just think that a Winning season suddenly changes everyone opinions fast. That seeing these guys work in the playoffs would do tons to add to their recognition.

    and for all this. I didnt even mention White who was just drafted. who has Plus scoring potential off the bench IMO and could develop into a PG down the road. didnt mention Thad who is a solid rotational big. I think there is lots to be excited about. I think this team will be a playoff team. And I think that by next offseason this young core will be seen as one of the ones with a bright future ahead of them.


    ‎"If your going to be thinking anyway, you might as well think big"

    -Rem Koolhaas

  2. #1532
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    Quote Originally Posted by chisox721 View Post
    I had said they would have to overpay and that was pretty much how it played out IMO.
    I wouldnít call it an overpay. Thad had one of his most efficient seasons of his career. Heís a solid defender and versatile big. Dedmon got the same money, and Iíd take Thad over him. Plus we are only on the hook for 6 million in the 3rd year, although Iíd imagine we try to keep him around for cheap after this contract if we are a contender by then.

    An overpay is Cory Josephís contract. Heís a below average role player and he got above average role player money. Thad is a top of the line role player and he got above average role player money. I was always ok spending this money over 2 years anyways. They Did a good job with the setup of Sato and Thadís contracts as well.

  3. #1533
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    https://www.hoopsrumors.com/chicago-bulls

    ďI know the task is very, very hard,Ē the former Pacers big man said. ďI carry that weight each and every day. I know I can help these young guys get better, I know I can push them over the hump.Ē

    Gotta love the attitude Thad is bringing here.

  4. #1534
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    Without sugarcoating his desires, Young, who prides himself on staying ready and has started 531 of the 540 contests in which he has appeared over the past seven seasons, set the stage for his own sacrifice. ďYou always want to start,Ē Young said. ďBut if coach sees fit to bring me off the bench, then, hey, Iíll deal with that and just continue to play. Iíve done it before in my career when I had Doug Collins, whoís actually in Chicago as a special advisor. I played three straight years with him coming off the bench. ďItís no big deal. Youíve just got to come in and get your Lou Will on. But at the end of the day, like I said, Iím just here to help lead this team, help build culture and make sure we put ourselves in a position to win games.Ē

    Culture has become that buzzword every team trumpets, but rarely does it come complete with a definition or directions for how itís built. Young, whose teams have journeyed to the postseason in eight of his 12 seasons, has an idea. And if nothing else, he knows whatís worked well and what hasnít from his previous four stops. ďIt starts by not getting tired of the grind, not getting tired of the repetitive nature,Ē Young said. ďA lot of guys, they tend to get tired of the repetitive nature of coming to practice each and every day and doing the same thing over and over. But when you do those same things over and over, it helps you get better as a team. And it helps you go out there and be able to win more games as a team. So we just have to continue to keep that grind, continue to stay focused and locked in on the task at hand, which is winning basketball games and ultimately getting to the playoffs.Ē 4 days ago Ė via The Athletic

  5. #1535
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    Quote Originally Posted by benny01 View Post
    Had pax come out and said we intend to be a playoff team and intend to compete, the same folks criticizing him would be calling him a fool for being pie in the sky and the same ones defending him would be defending that statement. Itís cool to like him or dislike him, but peopleís opinions are baked in at this point. He wonít be doing anything short of winning a chip that will sway anyone.
    I think the bulls if healthy should make the playoffs. So if the VP of the team said thatís what he expects, Iíd say good job. And considering heís been here like over 10 years, yes, I think he should have a fire under him and be expected to deliver.

  6. #1536
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    The same people who are complaining that Pax didnít say we are going to make the playoffs are the people who are saying we arenít going to make the playoffs lol. So they more than likely would have called Pax delusional if he said it. Like I said. Theyíll find a way to complain. Itís science lol

  7. #1537
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    How about this, is there anyone here who does not think this team is way better than it was two years ago? With way more potential? Way more balanced?

  8. #1538
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    Quote Originally Posted by dabears34ft View Post
    I wouldnít call it an overpay. Thad had one of his most efficient seasons of his career. Heís a solid defender and versatile big. Dedmon got the same money, and Iíd take Thad over him. Plus we are only on the hook for 6 million in the 3rd year, although Iíd imagine we try to keep him around for cheap after this contract if we are a contender by then.

    An overpay is Cory Josephís contract. Heís a below average role player and he got above average role player money. Thad is a top of the line role player and he got above average role player money. I was always ok spending this money over 2 years anyways. They Did a good job with the setup of Sato and Thadís contracts as well.
    Young vs Dedmon is dependent upon team need but in a vacuum I'd prefer Dedmon for the spacing.

    Aminu/Kleber/JaMychal Green/Stanley Johnson/Vonleh all got paid less (some significantly) than Young. I wouldn't argue against him being the best out of that group but not to the degree that the $$$ differential indicates (also, Young is oldest of that group by 2 years).

    One more thing; When I'm evaluating a franchise first thing I want to know is what the short term goals are. If Finals contention isn't realistic I don't see the point in signing aging veterans for >1 year. From an asset allocation standpoint you're better off taking on $$$ with an asset attached and/or take flyers on young guys who may just need a change of scenery/time to mature. I know the Dinwiddie discussion is played out but opting to keep him instead of signing Rondo could've allowed them to see what BKN ended up with.

  9. #1539
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinity2152 View Post
    How about this, is there anyone here who does not think this team is way better than it was two years ago? With way more potential? Way more balanced?
    I dont like to think about that hot mess of a team. Let be real here Rondo Wade and Jimmy was about the dumbest decision ever.

    Yes the team definitly seems more balanced. Yes its Probably better overall though we dont have a star like Jimmy I think I would take Lavine/Lauri/Porter (could also be Carter) over Rondo/Wade/Jimmy as a whole, we are definitly deeper. Younger, Better spacing. More athletic.

    I think the one thing That would take this team to the next level is simply something I am unsure we have. and that is coaching. IF Boylen can be good and get these guys to play right this team is going to be really solid. I am just still way too on the fence about him and the issues we started with last year to pretend I think he is a good coach. we will just have to see.


    ‎"If your going to be thinking anyway, you might as well think big"

    -Rem Koolhaas

  10. #1540
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    I honestly would not worry about the 3rd year on these guys to be honest.

    Worst case scenario is we need their cap and can shed them using a pick. We saw the Nets to it to open up their chance at 2 max deals and if the team we trade them to does not want them they can chose to decline their final year and save alot of that money. ( I think THAD has 5 mil guaranteed so finding somebody to eat that should be easy) I think Thad May end up the worse deal of the two by the end (just simply based on age). But I honestly would not be surprised if by year 3 Satoransky and his contract would not be seen as an asset. 6'7 High assist to TO ratio guards who can shoot 40% from 3 are just kinda rare. and as a guy who can fill in at the 1-3 he has incredible value IMO. and at 10 mil he is making nothing for what to me is at worst a solid bench contributor. But again at worst you Trade HIM and Thad together and both combined have what a 10 mil cap hit if cut. some team not ready would take on that in a heartbeat even if its for a later pick.


    ‎"If your going to be thinking anyway, you might as well think big"

    -Rem Koolhaas

  11. #1541
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyben36 View Post
    I dont like to think about that hot mess of a team. Let be real here Rondo Wade and Jimmy was about the dumbest decision ever.

    Yes the team definitly seems more balanced. Yes its Probably better overall though we dont have a star like Jimmy I think I would take Lavine/Lauri/Porter (could also be Carter) over Rondo/Wade/Jimmy as a whole, we are definitly deeper. Younger, Better spacing. More athletic.

    I think the one thing That would take this team to the next level is simply something I am unsure we have. and that is coaching. IF Boylen can be good and get these guys to play right this team is going to be really solid. I am just still way too on the fence about him and the issues we started with last year to pretend I think he is a good coach. we will just have to see.
    Coaching will play a big role. Players seem to love Boylen so hopefully that pays off. I know his hard nosed reputation attracted Thad. I think Thads work ethic will be contagious honestly. What he is saying is what these young guys need to see. Based on his career consistency, and having one of his best years at 30, I donít think heís just talk. He has proven to be a consistent hard nosed player on and off the court.

  12. #1542
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    Think he'll probably be a better veteran leader than some of the other guys mentioned, Stanley Johnson, aminu, etc, even if he is paid more. We need leadership and development more than more talent or cap space, at least this year. Good the guys feel secure he and Tomas will be here at least two years, we've had a helluva lot of turnover the last three years, never develop chemistry if you just keep swapping out players.

  13. #1543
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinity2152 View Post
    Think he'll probably be a better veteran leader than some of the other guys mentioned, Stanley Johnson, aminu, etc, even if he is paid more. We need leadership and development more than more talent or cap space, at least this year. Good the guys feel secure he and Tomas will be here at least two years, we've had a helluva lot of turnover the last three years, never develop chemistry if you just keep swapping out players.
    I think heís worth the contract. Any list of role playing bigs made, he would have topped it. Iíd say heís the best 2 way of the FA role players.

    On top of that, the next 2 years were the years where we arenít worried about overpays, which I donít see Sato or Thad as overpays, but if thatís the position some wanna take, I can understand why. We could be rewarded when they get their next deal, when we are trying to build a contender. Kind of a, we scratched your back then, so you scratch our back now, kind of deal.
    Last edited by dabears34ft; 07-14-2019 at 03:55 PM.

  14. #1544
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    The best example of a role player overpay was Redick. It was an overpay giving him 23 million for a season, but they lacked shooting, a veteran presence, and had the money to spend. He was the perfect get for them so they paid him big money to join a team that was a losing team the prior season, but was on the cusp of competing. The following year he signed for market value. While we did it a little different, 2 years guaranteed for Thad and Sato, we arenít as close as the 76ers were, so it makes perfect sense getting them for an extra year. That 3rd year, we can either let them go, and save 11 million, or with Felicio and Porter off the books, we can keep them both and go after a max free agent, then go over the cap to resign Lauri. Or if we donít see Lauri as the guy, and we see a PF that we want in that 2021 class, we can sign and trade Lauri, after signing a big name wing. Basically we will be in position to grab a max and Lauri or grab a Max and sign and trade Lauri for another max. We are in a good spot right now, so hopefully these vet role players get our young guys to where they need to be 2 years from now

  15. #1545
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    Im not really sure how guys can say Thad was an overpay when he started 81 games for the Pacers. Maybe its his age. But you got a playoff Pacers team starting 4 to come off your bench for 14 mil. And like some have pointed out his D. His leadership. His health. All make him a pretty valuable contributor. He is also an under rated play maker for a 4 man too.

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