Kyle Korver: "As White people, we are responsible" for slavery...

[kdspurman]

Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity, the grave will supply plenty of time for silence. -Christopher Hitchens

Confrontation can be uncomfortable but at times it's necessary. If you see/hear racism, then speak up. I believe that will go a long way and that's the message I got from his essay.

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk

That is the right message, people are trying to make it about what the thread title says without reading what he wrote.

[Vee-Rex]

This is probably the most non-toxic discussion I've ever seen on this topic online.

I am proud of you guys!

[D-Leethal]

Why are the Africans who sold their fellow Africans into slavery not responsible for slavery? Are the ancestors of free blacks who owned slaves in America also responsible or do they get a pass?

[Yanks All Day]

I wonder how many people read the article before commenting. He mentions the word slavery once in the article. In fact, when he is talking about slavery, he makes a very clear argument for guilt vs. responsibility. Specifically said white people do not bear the guilt of forefathers, but it's about the responsibility of contemporary white people to understand that differences still exist. Exact quote:

"As white people, are we guilty of the sins of our forefathers? No, I don’t think so. But are we responsible for them? Yes, I believe we are." ... "It’s about understanding on a fundamental level that black people and white people, they still have it different in America. And that those differences come from an ugly history….. not some random divide."

That's about as clear a message as it gets, and fits really well within the context of a very thoughtful article. I applaud Korver for this, and more people in the world, not just the NBA, need to have this mentality. I don't see any way to hate on Kyle Korver here.

[More-Than-Most]

I wonder how many people read the article before commenting. He mentions the word slavery once in the article. In fact, when he is talking about slavery, he makes a very clear argument for guilt vs. responsibility. Specifically said white people do not bear the guilt of forefathers, but it's about the responsibility of contemporary white people to understand that differences still exist. Exact quote:

"As white people, are we guilty of the sins of our forefathers? No, I don’t think so. But are we responsible for them? Yes, I believe we are." ... "It’s about understanding on a fundamental level that black people and white people, they still have it different in America. And that those differences come from an ugly history….. not some random divide."

That's about as clear a message as it gets, and fits really well within the context of a very thoughtful article. I applaud Korver for this, and more people in the world, not just the NBA, need to have this mentality. I don't see any way to hate on Kyle Korver here.

well because of this

Kyle Korver: "As White people, we are responsible"

Um no white people arent... because when his teammate got picked up by police he wondered why he was out at a club on a back to back??????????????????????? SO WE AS WHITE PEOPLE ARE RESPONSIBLE because he himself is an idiot for thinking like this? i will pass. Also why was his thinking wrong exactly in terms of his teammate being at a club on a back to back late at night? I dont care if you are white black green blue or brown... If my *** takes the game this seriously and i am trying to win i am wondering the same thing


he may very well be right though that if it were him out instead he may not have been grabbed by the cops but again i do not have the evidence to make such a guess. Overall he is trying to hold an entire race accountable for his own stupidity because he jumped to conclusions.

[More-Than-Most]

as for the westbrook situation........ fans are idiots... it wont be the first or last time someone says something racist or moronic... how many times do we hear about peoples family getting ridiculed left and right and it has nothing to do with race? The second you sit here and try to get in the mind of a single idiotic fan you have already lost... westy should not have to sit there and be called any type of racial slur but when you let 20k people into 1 area there will always be morons/idiots/racists/sexists and so on down the list yet we worry more about that this guy called westy a racial slur over how many times some fan sent vulgarities at an opposing teams players family? So are men responsible when a man screams out to a star athletes wife that she is a *****? because that has happened a **** ton.


I am just curious on where the line is... Woman have been oppressed as well but that seems to take a back seat for whatever reason... I think it was cliff lee wife or something that was destroyed at yankee stadium..... we as men though right... How about this?

Former Duke star Austin Rivers, currently a guard with the Pelicans and son of NBA coach Doc Rivers, understands probably better than most that some taunting comes with the territory. But he said fans too often cross the line.

"I've had people say nasty stuff about my mother, my sister, my girlfriend, my father, stuff about me. I've been called all types of names," Rivers said. "... They'll say it in front of their kids or their wives. That's not OK."



We AS PEOPLE.... Need to stop being so ****ed in the head and start realizing the way we act and treat any person of sex or race in any disrespectful manner is ****ing stupid and uncalled for yet the only time it seems to have a magnifying glass over it is when race is involved. People need to treat other people with respect nomatter the color of their skin or what church they follow or the music they listen to or the clothing they wear or how their hair is done

[ewing]

It’s not racist, those are stereotypes

There are actually no such things as race. The things you mention are based on culture, an evil culture (but culture none the less)

Racism is a term created to describe hate based on a made up construct called race. Which was created to colonize, oppress, and capture people while attempting to maintain the charade of being pious, religious and spiritually sound.

If someone’s a different “race” than you then you can do whatever you want with them and still believe you’re going to heaven

you're smart

[kdspurman]

Why are the Africans who sold their fellow Africans into slavery not responsible for slavery? Are the ancestors of free blacks who owned slaves in America also responsible or do they get a pass?

Did you read what he wrote?

[Hawkeye15]

This!

It's a disturbingly vicious cycle initiated by Jim Crow laws.

We can do both here - educate and encourage blacks to carve out proper lives for themselves. At the end of the day, we will have to lift ourselves up.

Likewise, we educate and encourage whites of the inequalities that have impacted minorities and what white privilege means. At the end of the day, it's up to them to contribute however or whichever way they desire.

I know you are black, and this article hit with me, because I am white, and feel the exact same way. So easily, could I remove myself from this. But I can't, nor should any white person who actually realizes (I won't use believe anymore because you are an idiot if you think blacks haven't been suffocated in this country) the changes that need to be made.

Jim Crowe laws were the start in the claim of equality, but then social security payouts (exclusion of agri industry, where blacks worked), the drug war was literally made up so that blacks could be targeted. Why are blacks arrested at a rate 5 times what a white person faces? It goes on, and on, and on.

I am white. And I don't feel guilt for being white, but I also realize it's my/our duty to try and close this gap that has been so wide open, for so long. We need neighborhoods where the expectations are to get a college degree, a career, and a family, not just to survive through high school and not go to prison or the morgue.

Yes, the black community MUST lift themselves up, but god damn man, whites can stop making it so difficult to do so, and whites have the power to help make changes to the foundations, so that the black communities future generations can hopefully look back at their first couple hundred years in America, and shake their head at it.

[Hawkeye15]

But we can't legislate today to atone for the sins 160+ years ago. All we can do is fix legislation to ensure everyone has an equal opportunity (which we have for the most part) and to fix the blatantly biased criminal justice system (Trump actually passed a bill on criminal justice reform). We are in the right direction, I just wish the results were faster.

nobody thinks we can pay back the black community for the past, that just isn't realistic, and frankly, what our forefathers did is not our fault. But like you said, we CAN make changes today, that help propel the black community to actually stand on equal footing. All they need, is the same opportunities from birth as we have. The rest is up to them, as it is up to us today.

Your last sentence man, is exactly it. And I think we can push harder.

[Vee-Rex]

as for the westbrook situation........ fans are idiots... it wont be the first or last time someone says something racist or moronic... how many times do we hear about peoples family getting ridiculed left and right and it has nothing to do with race? The second you sit here and try to get in the mind of a single idiotic fan you have already lost... westy should not have to sit there and be called any type of racial slur but when you let 20k people into 1 area there will always be morons/idiots/racists/sexists and so on down the list yet we worry more about that this guy called westy a racial slur over how many times some fan sent vulgarities at an opposing teams players family? So are men responsible when a man screams out to a star athletes wife that she is a *****? because that has happened a **** ton.


I am just curious on where the line is... Woman have been oppressed as well but that seems to take a back seat for whatever reason... I think it was cliff lee wife or something that was destroyed at yankee stadium..... we as men though right... How about this?

Former Duke star Austin Rivers, currently a guard with the Pelicans and son of NBA coach Doc Rivers, understands probably better than most that some taunting comes with the territory. But he said fans too often cross the line.

"I've had people say nasty stuff about my mother, my sister, my girlfriend, my father, stuff about me. I've been called all types of names," Rivers said. "... They'll say it in front of their kids or their wives. That's not OK."



We AS PEOPLE.... Need to stop being so ****ed in the head and start realizing the way we act and treat any person of sex or race in any disrespectful manner is ****ing stupid and uncalled for yet the only time it seems to have a magnifying glass over it is when race is involved. People need to treat other people with respect nomatter the color of their skin or what church they follow or the music they listen to or the clothing they wear or how their hair is done

I like this post from you, MTM.

I know a bunch of blacks who act as if their issues are the center of the universe, so much that they're constantly belittling the oppression of women and gays and other minorities/demographics.

We just need to be better as people. Why demean someone because of their race or gender or sexuality or religion? Why be mean at all? Respect all.

I think things are trending in the right direction though. It'll never be perfect but it's certainly better than it was 100 years ago. All we can do now is continue to educate and stand up for each other.

[Hawkeye15]

I've never seen this quantified, crime stats paint a different picture, IQ scores paint a different picture, maybe theres more accountability on their part that you're ignoring rather than the white man. Nobody puts a gun to your head and makes you do drugs, rape, murder.

Chronz, my friend, you are painfully naive on this subject. Ever as WHY those stats paint a different picture, or are you more of a surface level guy on this subject?

[Hawkeye15]

Systemic oppression with the false representation of true freedom.

Your view (along with many others who struggle to understand cause and effect) is interesting because it is weighed by being frustrated with hearing about oppression and racism. Ad nauseam - I'm sure it's annoying to have something used as an excuse for many blacks.

I get it - but that doesn't mean there isn't some truth to systemic racism contributing (not an excuse but a contribution) to the deplorable state many blacks are in today.

I'm black, fairly successful and educated, and married to a white woman - I could write BOOKS about the differences between her family and mine.

perfectly put.

[Hawkeye15]

I struggle to understand ITS cause and effect, yes. But cause and effect is simple ebough given ample data, I simply dont see your reasoning, hence we disagree. Which is fine, maybe I'll learn something along the way but trust me on one thing, I've done this debate plenty. I havent had the free time or the will I did even a year ago but I have discussed this topic incessantly (along with the moon landing hoax, Wilt being the GOAT and Einstein being a "hack fraud"), I would go to different campuses and seek debate. Not in a blowhard way like how certain alt media types but in a more casual, time wasting manner.

Have you ever discussed your viewpoints with high IQ (its easy to tell IMO) Black Isrealite? Not trying to sound like a prick because Im sure you're technically more educated, that doesn't mean **** to me, but its important to know that Im not like most on most subjects.

do you know what a cycle is? And do you know how difficult it is to break a cycle, with no outside assistance?

[Hawkeye15]

Eh, even if that's what he meant by saying "we are responsible" for the forefathers' sins, I don't think the responsibility is exclusively on White people; it's a society/cultural problem even within the Black community. Yes, Whites in conjunction with every other race have a responsibility to stop racism in the world.

If we want to compare White versus Black statistics as Korver did, we should do it across the board. Korver brought up compelling statistics which show an inequality with Blacks... No argument with the criminal justice system's bias against people of color; it's clear as day. However, anytime a Black person starts saying they need to stop blaming Whites, start committing to the family unit instead of sleeping around and shirking the responsibility of being a father on single women, get an education, etc... people within the community want to lynch him and call him an "Uncle Tom".

Korver has several legitimate points and comparisons between Whites and Blacks, but one of the most profound comparisons he left off was the ratio of children being brought up in fatherless homes. The proof is in the pudding. The data is universal acceptance that there is an extreme correlation between "crime" and being brought up in a single parent home. To pretend like the responsibility is only on White people is actually doing the Black community a disservice in helping them rise above the status quo. Society needs to stop vilifying the "Uncle Toms" who preach personal responsibility and a great work ethic.

I agree with this dude