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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    perhaps we can help by not putting their fathers in prison? Or perhaps the cycle started due to benefits laws, then grew due to the war on drugs targeting blacks, etc? No doubt the black community must try harder to help themselves, but we can't just believe that since they are equal, on paper, that it just nullifies the cycle that us whites started generations ago..
    I've never seen this quantified, crime stats paint a different picture, IQ scores paint a different picture, maybe theres more accountability on their part that you're ignoring rather than the white man. Nobody puts a gun to your head and makes you do drugs, rape, murder.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vee-Rex View Post
    This!

    It's a disturbingly vicious cycle initiated by Jim Crow laws.

    We can do both here - educate and encourage blacks to carve out proper lives for themselves. At the end of the day, we will have to lift ourselves up.

    Likewise, we educate and encourage whites of the inequalities that have impacted minorities and what white privilege means. At the end of the day, it's up to them to contribute however or whichever way they desire.
    What did the Jim Crow laws start?

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vee-Rex View Post
    Sure.

    We could scream it out 10000000◊ that black families need to get better. Get an education. Raise your kids properly. Stay away from crime. Etc...

    But at the same time, we have to be smart enough to understand WHY black families struggle in this area more than any other minority. And to act like blacks had the same opportunities as whites the day slavery ended is ridiculous, that modern blacks aren't and shouldn't be impacted by centuries of institutionalized racism is also ridiculous.

    Racism plagues the uneducated.
    It shouldn't be screamed a thousand times , it should be obvious to anyone regardless without uttering a word.

    Whats your excuse for the why? How did other minorities have it better?

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    these whites are exactly the ones MLK stated hurt the cause the most. The ones who know there is a problem, but sit on the sidelines.
    Have you ever heard a black man **** on MLK? It literally made me tinkle abit because I was praising him to get on his good side the way Korver is virtue signaling to us now. It changed my life, I started seeing mythical people get cut down and havent stopped questioning since.
    Last edited by Chronz; 04-08-2019 at 05:13 PM.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    What did the Jim Crow laws start?
    Systemic oppression with the false representation of true freedom.

    Your view (along with many others who struggle to understand cause and effect) is interesting because it is weighed by being frustrated with hearing about oppression and racism. Ad nauseam - I'm sure it's annoying to have something used as an excuse for many blacks.

    I get it - but that doesn't mean there isn't some truth to systemic racism contributing (not an excuse but a contribution) to the deplorable state many blacks are in today.

    I'm black, fairly successful and educated, and married to a white woman - I could write BOOKS about the differences between her family and mine.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by goingfor28 View Post
    Lol what? Ashton Kutcher needs to slow down.
    I'm a 30 yr old white guy and I am in no way responsible for slavery. I wasn't alive then. My parents weren't alive. My grandparents weren't alive. My great grandparents were alive. Etc etc.
    **** out of here w that nonsense. Nobody today should feel responsible for the **** that went on back then.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
    You're not understanding their argument, they're saying because of your privelages from their suffering, you must pay it back somehow. So what you need to do, is find out each and every single one of your great grand pappies transgressions and put a number on how much guilt you feel. Then donate that to black communities, guess where they'll spend it.....

    Whats quite sad in all this is that when Blacks speak out this way, they're labeled by the VAST majority as "Uncle Toms", ffs one of my closest friend, was seemingly not black enough. Dude was nearly injected to death by cops (survived and is hoping to win a case someday), has a higher IQ than most I've ever met, has the voice of an angel (seriously does, I can link you his youtube and the time we were ********) can play the guitar AND is HILARIOUS/Pimp. Dude lost something like 150 lbs skateboarding as a teen so he grew up humble.

    This type of demonization is what I'm sick of and it has NOTHING to do with whitey.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vee-Rex View Post
    Systemic oppression with the false representation of true freedom.

    Your view (along with many others who struggle to understand cause and effect) is interesting because it is weighed by being frustrated with hearing about oppression and racism. Ad nauseam - I'm sure it's annoying to have something used as an excuse for many blacks.

    I get it - but that doesn't mean there isn't some truth to systemic racism contributing (not an excuse but a contribution) to the deplorable state many blacks are in today.

    I'm black, fairly successful and educated, and married to a white woman - I could write BOOKS about the differences between her family and mine.
    I struggle to understand ITS cause and effect, yes. But cause and effect is simple ebough given ample data, I simply dont see your reasoning, hence we disagree. Which is fine, maybe I'll learn something along the way but trust me on one thing, I've done this debate plenty. I havent had the free time or the will I did even a year ago but I have discussed this topic incessantly (along with the moon landing hoax, Wilt being the GOAT and Einstein being a "hack fraud"), I would go to different campuses and seek debate. Not in a blowhard way like how certain alt media types but in a more casual, time wasting manner.

    Have you ever discussed your viewpoints with high IQ (its easy to tell IMO) Black Isrealite? Not trying to sound like a prick because Im sure you're technically more educated, that doesn't mean **** to me, but its important to know that Im not like most on most subjects.
    Last edited by Chronz; 04-08-2019 at 05:29 PM.

  8. #23
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    I just realized one of my posts is going to come off really racist, oh well, lemme try reverse racism to make up for it. I know my people and country, its one of the most vicious on Earth in recent memory and Im going back there in a few months, thats why I dont have to bow down the way most of my "white" brethren do. I dont buy this white privelage talk but even if I did, why would that matter in todays day and age?

    Again, still havent read the damn article.

    Ill stop posting before I get banned now, for at least 1 hour
    Last edited by Chronz; 04-08-2019 at 05:30 PM.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    I struggle to understand ITS cause and effect, yes. But cause and effect is simple ebough given ample data, I simply dont see your reasoning, hence we disagree. Which is fine, maybe I'll learn something along the way but trust me on one thing, I've done this debate plenty. I havent had the free time or the will I did even a year ago but I have discussed this topic incessantly (along with the moon landing hoax, Wilt being the GOAT and Einstein being a "hack fraud"), I would go to different campuses and seek debate. Not in a blowhard way like how certain alt media types but in a more casual, time wasting manner.

    Have you ever discussed your viewpoints with high IQ (its easy to tell IMO) Black Isrealite? Not trying to sound like a prick because Im sure you're technically more educated, that doesn't mean **** to me, but its important to know that Im not like most on most subjects.
    Debate is good and healthy for the mind for both sides. Disagreeing is fine, it's something that will always happen with practically any subject (one of many, many reasons I'm an atheist but that's another subject altogether).

    As for myself, I suppose I'm a bit different on the subject as well. It always feel like two extremes bickering with one another without seeing that there's probably some truth to both sides. I've experienced both sides.

    Yes, I have those uncles and cousins and dad and whoever else that have shaken their mighty black fist to the sky and said, "That white man has kept me down!" Of course, besides being a cop-out for leading lives that stood no chance of propelling themselves up into the next economic class, it's also a limitation placed on themselves. How can you blame anyone else for your condition? Whether there's some truth or not, you've effectively prohibited yourself with a limitation - and carrying that mindset will do more harm than good.
    This is an effect that many blacks have placed on themselves. Generational hopelessness. The only ones that can break it are themselves. This is what I find myself thinking far more than anything regarding racism. I'm usually far more critical of blacks than I am of whites, though it's done out of love and sympathy (because I see the limits people I love have placed on themselves).

    At the same time, I will argue until death with someone who acts like this hopeless mentality, this disreputable state of poverty that many blacks are embedded in is not a result of many inequalities in the past and even the present. It's a vicious, pervasive kind of hopelessness that leads to severe miseducation in black youth.

    Cleveland is one of the worst crime/poverty cities in America, and I've lived in the worst areas in Cleveland (went to 10 different schools before my 12th grade year). I've seen firsthand the conditions people are in. Sociologists universally agree that an environment has a HEAVY impact on the molding of a community and its children. When you don't have anything to look forward to, no traveling, no money, no good parental or family influences, you are more likely to be snared by the conditions of your surroundings. Kids are dumb, lol.

    Soooo many Jim Crow laws contributed to segregation and poor education for blacks in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. There is a factual and indisputable correlation between poverty and crime (in terms of quantity), which undoubtedly played a role in how black communities have developed over the generations.

    It's sad - it's not an excuse for acting like an idiot at all, but it's still sad and we cannot simply ignore what happened and how it impacts today's societies.
    Believe the hype. The Baker has come.


  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    I read it as, whites have responsibility to make a change.

    I loved the article, and he hit it on the head with this portion:
    Eh, even if that's what he meant by saying "we are responsible" for the forefathers' sins, I don't think the responsibility is exclusively on White people; it's a society/cultural problem even within the Black community. Yes, Whites in conjunction with every other race have a responsibility to stop racism in the world.

    If we want to compare White versus Black statistics as Korver did, we should do it across the board. Korver brought up compelling statistics which show an inequality with Blacks... No argument with the criminal justice system's bias against people of color; it's clear as day. However, anytime a Black person starts saying they need to stop blaming Whites, start committing to the family unit instead of sleeping around and shirking the responsibility of being a father on single women, get an education, etc... people within the community want to lynch him and call him an "Uncle Tom".

    Korver has several legitimate points and comparisons between Whites and Blacks, but one of the most profound comparisons he left off was the ratio of children being brought up in fatherless homes. The proof is in the pudding. The data is universal acceptance that there is an extreme correlation between "crime" and being brought up in a single parent home. To pretend like the responsibility is only on White people is actually doing the Black community a disservice in helping them rise above the status quo. Society needs to stop vilifying the "Uncle Toms" who preach personal responsibility and a great work ethic.
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  11. #26
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    It is hard for white people to step up and fight back against racism in their presence when they don't experience it. How can they?

    I pass for white and I've been hit by cops while out with my darker friends, but when surrounded by white friends the racism just doesn't come up anywhere close to as much.

    Korver doesn't represent the average white person in a lot of ways.

    Next time I see him I'll ask my friend who is a black retired police chief what he thinks about Korvers white privilege epiphany.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by tp13baby View Post
    I love it. Not all white people are racist, but there is a lack of accountability to shut up the portion of ones that are. To many times there are bystanders who just sit there, and not do anything. As white people sitting back and not taking an active part in equal rights and making the excuse, "well I am not racist" is the problem we have. There will always be racists, but us white people have to have a larger part in ending discrimination, hate groups, demeaning language and sadly we just don't. Korver nailed it.
    I don't disagree with you really. However, in this country, freedom of speech is a right. Being racist isn't illegal and we often times have to allow people to be ignorant. Now, when it comes to the workplace, that's free game as it's considered discrimination. Throw the book at people who purposely deny/reject people based off of the color of their skin. Individually though, there isn't much we can do without breaking the law.
    2015 Bull's Mock Trade Game Championship Team

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    PG: Chris Paul | Patty Mills | Jose Calderon
    SG: Khris Middleton | J.J. Redick | Iman Shumpert
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by tredigs View Post
    He's right, and it's an issue. But if we are being 100% here, the biggest issue as it pertains to black America is not white people or oppression. It's the fact that the populace has a very real issue of abandonment. Raise your ****ing children.
    100% agree.

    If every White person paid reparations to every Black person, would Black children being raised in fatherless homes be reduced to levels comparable to other races? While there is more SOCIETY (not just White people) can do to address the social inequalities, it all starts in the home first. Korver wouldn't dare talk about it because he's White and he knows he'd receive backlash for it... so instead he sticks to one part of a solution and will probably be championed for it.
    2015 Bull's Mock Trade Game Championship Team

    San Antonio Spurs

    PG: Chris Paul | Patty Mills | Jose Calderon
    SG: Khris Middleton | J.J. Redick | Iman Shumpert
    SF: DeMarre Carroll | P.J. Tucker | Anthony Morrow
    PF: Tim Duncan | Carlos Boozer | Kyle O'Quinn
    C : Al Horford | Rudy Gobert

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    the thread title is absolutely misleading.
    Is it?
    As white people, are we guilty of the sins of our forefathers? No, I donít think so.

    But are we responsible for them? Yes, I believe we are.
    What exactly is he referencing when he says "sins of our forefathers?" Obviously slavery... So what is misleading about the title?
    2015 Bull's Mock Trade Game Championship Team

    San Antonio Spurs

    PG: Chris Paul | Patty Mills | Jose Calderon
    SG: Khris Middleton | J.J. Redick | Iman Shumpert
    SF: DeMarre Carroll | P.J. Tucker | Anthony Morrow
    PF: Tim Duncan | Carlos Boozer | Kyle O'Quinn
    C : Al Horford | Rudy Gobert

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    perhaps we can help by not putting their fathers in prison? Or perhaps the cycle started due to benefits laws, then grew due to the war on drugs targeting blacks, etc? No doubt the black community must try harder to help themselves, but we can't just believe that since they are equal, on paper, that it just nullifies the cycle that us whites started generations ago..
    But we can't legislate today to atone for the sins 160+ years ago. All we can do is fix legislation to ensure everyone has an equal opportunity (which we have for the most part) and to fix the blatantly biased criminal justice system (Trump actually passed a bill on criminal justice reform). We are in the right direction, I just wish the results were faster.
    2015 Bull's Mock Trade Game Championship Team

    San Antonio Spurs

    PG: Chris Paul | Patty Mills | Jose Calderon
    SG: Khris Middleton | J.J. Redick | Iman Shumpert
    SF: DeMarre Carroll | P.J. Tucker | Anthony Morrow
    PF: Tim Duncan | Carlos Boozer | Kyle O'Quinn
    C : Al Horford | Rudy Gobert

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