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Thread: Offseason

  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    Vigneault is famous for burying young players in favor of veterans. This is a bad hire for a team who has tons of young talent.

    It's a gross, retread of a hire. Many of the issues we just got rid of with Dave Hakstol are likely to rear their head again.

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    The only plus is that we have too many young players for him to bench all of them....so, at least there's that.

  2. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace23 View Post
    The only plus is that we have too many young players for him to bench all of them....so, at least there's that.
    Unless they're traded by our GM who's shown a past willingness to deal young talent in favor of veterans, and a team who wanted an "aggressive GM".

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  3. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace23 View Post
    Better than Dan Bylsma. But I don't *hate* it. His system is focused on skating, speed and generating offense through the NZ -- all things that we (a) should be good at doing but (b) don't seem to be able to do with anything resembling consistency.

    Here's a quick review from the blueshirts -- and there is quite a bit to like here.

    Obviously he isn't my ideal pick (I wanted Quenneville or someone else who has his name on the Stanley Cup), but he's not the worst option. They could've done worse.
    Simply doing worse isn't okay, in my mind. If you're not going to get Q, then go get a young mind with an interesting system who's willing to work with the young talent. Not a coach who's shown a strong willingness to bench young I'm favor of old.

    It's just...another uncreative hire for a franchise who's been mared with it.

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  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    Vigneault is famous for burying young players in favor of veterans. This is a bad hire for a team who has tons of young talent.

    It's a gross, retread of a hire. It's incredibly uncreative and doesn't jibe with the roster we currently have. Many of the issues we just got rid of with Dave Hakstol are likely to rear their head again.

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    There isnít that much ďageĒ to play anymore, but this is the primary concern. If he does play AMac, I blame the GM at this point.

    I like his system, it is up tempo and 2 high forecheck, pinching on the boards, heía coach Lundqvist well ... didnít destroy him in his ďlater years ageĒ

    Letís see if a tiger can change their stripes

    I am excited about someone running a professional bench for the first time since Lavy ... we had Chief, ******* Magee, and Gordon ... that is a lot of years of bad habits to unpack

  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by castan_b View Post
    There isnít that much ďageĒ to play anymore, but this is the primary concern. If he does play AMac, I blame the GM at this point.

    I like his system, it is up tempo and 2 high forecheck, pinching on the boards, heía coach Lundqvist well ... didnít destroy him in his ďlater years ageĒ

    Letís see if a tiger can change their stripes

    I am excited about someone running a professional bench for the first time since Lavy ... we had Chief, ******* Magee, and Gordon ... that is a lot of years of bad habits to unpack
    Unless, as I said, the young talent is swapped via trade. This hire feels like it works lockstep with a GM who's never been known for going young. And a team who wants "action".

    The system is good. The history is bad. His stripes never changed in New York. I don't believe they change here.

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  6. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace23 View Post
    The only plus is that we have too many young players for him to bench all of them....so, at least there's that.
    Exactly.

  7. #202
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    yeah, i'm not a fan of this hire, either.

    5 years is too long for any NHL coach, let alone one who's entering this situation. this is a team with high expectations that has underachieved year after year, with a veteran core that's rounding 30, and a lot of young players who haven't done anything in the NHL yet. there is no margin for error here. if vigneault is not the right guy to take us over the line, we've ****ed ourselves.


    otoh, i will point out that vigneault has coached every player on this list:
    mats zuccarello :: 48 GP, 12 G, 40 PTS -- 2019 UFA -- 32 years old
    derrick brassard :: 70 GP, 14 G, 23 PTS -- 2019 UFA -- 32 years old
    brian boyle :: 73 GP, 18 G, 24 PTS -- 2019 UFA -- 35 years old
    carl hagelin :: 55 GP, 5 G, 18 PTS -- 2019 UFA -- 31 years old
    kevin hayes :: 71 GP, 19 G, 55 PTS -- 2019 UFA -- 27 years old
    oskar lindberg :: 55 GP, 9 G, 20 PTS -- 2019 UFA -- 28 years old

    alex edler :: 56 GP, 34 P, 24 MPG -- 2019 UFA -- 33 years old
    anton stralman :: 47 GP, 17 PTS, 21 MPG -- 2019 UFA -- 33 years old

  8. #203
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    Would anybody here be happy if any of the available coaches were hired? At least he has a track record of winning. Itís not like thereís a long list of cup winning coaches waiting for employment.

  9. #204
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    https://twitter.com/NateElder/status...503242240?s=20

    Idk if I see any real issues here tbh.

    Just like I said before I'm willing to let this play out and see how he does.

    Still think they pulled the trigger a little quick. It's not all that rare there is a surprise after the first round when it comes to coaches. Whether its aassistants or head coaches someone may have become available.

  10. #205
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    I can't imagine that Vigneault was the second best choice out there. I'm wondering if Fletcher brought him in to teach these guys how to play defense? You bring in a defensive coach to a team that's not exactly brimming with defensive specialists....The team needs to learn or be taught how to play a team defense. I'm not ready to completely bash this hire, I'm not saying I like it either, but if it leads to NO improvement I want Fletcher outta here....The Flyers wanted a GM of action, but still haven't seen any.

    Yes Vigneault has a good track record in the regular season....Is it a question of him having the talent to succeed? Or teams that were more equipped for his style of play?

    I don't know if I can stay a fan of this team if Fletcher starts dealing away all the young prospects for "past their prime" veterans....Bringing in vets would not lead to sustainable success in the NHL. It could set this team back even further then they already are.

  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by SportsNutMike View Post
    I can't imagine that Vigneault was the second best choice out there. I'm wondering if Fletcher brought him in to teach these guys how to play defense? You bring in a defensive coach to a team that's not exactly brimming with defensive specialists....The team needs to learn or be taught how to play a team defense. I'm not ready to completely bash this hire, I'm not saying I like it either, but if it leads to NO improvement I want Fletcher outta here....The Flyers wanted a GM of action, but still haven't seen any.

    Yes Vigneault has a good track record in the regular season....Is it a question of him having the talent to succeed? Or teams that were more equipped for his style of play?

    I don't know if I can stay a fan of this team if Fletcher starts dealing away all the young prospects for "past their prime" veterans....Bringing in vets would not lead to sustainable success in the NHL. It could set this team back even further then they already are.
    Honestly, I don't hate Vigneault. I don't LOVE him, but I don't hate him. He took 2 "meh" teams to the finals, which is something (especially the 2014 Rangers -- it isn't like that team was stacked), he's won 3 Presidents' Trophies, he's a Jack Adams winner...he does have some hardware (though my preference is a Cup).

  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by MShark View Post
    Would anybody here be happy if any of the available coaches were hired? At least he has a track record of winning. Itís not like thereís a long list of cup winning coaches waiting for employment.
    Give me someone fresh. Sheldon Keefe would have been an innovative, and interesting hire who was absolutely available. Is he risky? Sure. He'd be a baby coach. But he's shown an interesting style and has been quite successful at the AHL level.

    50x over I'd rather the franchise shoot for the moon than go with what feels like "good enough". The Flyers have gone down the retread aisle twice now, with a GM and a coach who have had issues getting over the hump.

    I'd rather take a bit of a risk on a Keefe being the next great coach than going with someone like Vigneault who has struggled in the past turning the ship over to the kids. He's an okay coach. I hate settling for okay. He likely won't tank the team. But neither will Fletcher. Yet I'm not confident in either of the two to be anything better than middling.

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  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    Give me someone fresh. Sheldon Keefe would have been an innovative, and interesting hire who was absolutely available. Is he risky? Sure. He'd be a baby coach. But he's shown an interesting style and has been quite successful at the AHL level.

    50x over I'd rather the franchise shoot for the moon than go with what feels like "good enough". The Flyers have gone down the retread aisle twice now, with a GM and a coach who have had issues getting over the hump.

    I'd rather take a bit of a risk on a Keefe being the next great coach than going with someone like Vigneault who has struggled in the past turning the ship over to the kids. He's an okay coach. I hate settling for okay. He likely won't tank the team. But neither will Fletcher. Yet I'm not confident in either of the two to be anything better than middling.

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    ya well they did do "50x over I'd rather the franchise shoot for the moon" when they hired hakstol. For sure they wanted someone with more experience. Lest see how this plays our before we judge. Don't like the term but nhl coaches rarely stay their whole term anyway

  14. #209
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    now we just need to retool the assistants and hopefully bring gordon back to the ahl

  15. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3iverson3 View Post
    ya well they did do "50x over I'd rather the franchise shoot for the moon" when they hired hakstol. For sure they wanted someone with more experience. Lest see how this plays our before we judge. Don't like the term but nhl coaches rarely stay their whole term anyway
    Dave Hakstol was a good hire at the time. He was a younger coach who had a lot of experience with young players. What couldn't have been known at the time was how he would have an over reliance on "safe" and "veterans". He was a good hire who turned out to be a bad coach. That's okay. It happens when you try new things. Failure is learning experiences. So you live, learn, and try again. This is a 180 hire from that. What we *can* say about Alain Vigneualt, is that he has repeatedly shown an over reliance on *both* of those things in the past. The team got rid of a coach who displayed literally the same tendencies. Now, Vignault has a more interesting system, but we don't need to "wait and see" how this plays out with a coach who's got a ton of track record of just that. It's likely that he'll be Alain Vigneault, and not someone else.

    It's a "good enough" hire. I'd rather all day the team try with Dave Hakstol's and find out they failed than go with known quantities that have bad tendencies and habits hoping that somehow Alain Vigneault somehow changes his mind on those things. He almost assuredly won't.

    I don't care about the term. I care highly about the guy. He's an "okay" coach. The team does not seem to want to hire interesting, creative and innovative. And the same old **** will almost always fall back on the same old **** they do. Fletcher was a "same old ****" hire, and he went out and hired a "same old ****" coach. It doesn't make me confident that he's going to do anything more than "same old ****" with the roster. And I'm not confident a coach who displayed the same issues in Vancouver as he did New York will do anything other than the "same old ****" here, too. I don't think Alain Vigneault is a horrible, no good, coach. He's not Dan Bylsma. But he's also fairly uninteresting hire for a franchise who's been mired in mediocrity for quite some time.

    As I said, give me Sheldon Keefe 50x over Alain Vigneault. Maybe he's a good hire who goes down the same dark path Dave Hakstol did. But there's another side there where maybe he doesn't, and shows a strong ability to work with our kids and keep an interesting system. Vigneault, given his druthers, will probably fall back on his bad habits. The ceiling there is very much capped, unless somehow, he's had the ability to sit back, really adjust and accept his short comings in New York and Vancouver and adapt. People don't usually change that much.
    Last edited by 1908_Cubs; 04-15-2019 at 06:03 PM.
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