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  1. #1996
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    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    If he had no clue what he was doing, he wouldn't have gotten JD Davis for a top 300 prospect and a couple of guys who probably have no major league future. At the end of the day, its a numbers game in terms of acquisitions. No I'm saying that ultimately he did make the mistake of jumping the gun but I understand why he did given the circumstances of the other players available. What is so hard to understand about?

    I used Syndergaard as an example. The Mets pitching staff as a whole has been bad at holding runners with the exception of deGrom.

    Next time provide a link if you're going make a claim like that.

    It was 26th in the league in 2018 as opposed to 27th in 2019. I said ranking, not overall numbers and that comes with guys like Plawecki being infinitely better framers than Ramos. I'm aware Ramos is a bad defensive catcher but I'm not buying the atrocity you portray him as. His offense is still significantly better than league average and he's still a 2 WAR catcher. Ironic you mention all those Baseball reference stats and forget to mention that Ramos was a positive dWAR catcher last year btw.
    JD Davis was an amazing pickup, but I'm not sure he's the one to credit for that. His ML stats to that point weren't good, at least not his traditional ones. I bet that was his scouts' reccomendation.

    Is it that none of the Mets' pitchers can hold the runners, or that the Mets never have a catcher who can throw anybody out?

    I made a claim and then provided the link. Admit you're wrong next time.

    Who the **** cares about league rankings? The point you were trying to score was based on the premise that the Mets' catchers were actually better last year than this year, which isn't true. Ranking means literally nothing, and the actual statistics point to the opposite outcome. And you keep getting dunked on about this 2 WAR thing, so I won't reopen that wound except to say it's been sufficiently rebutted elsewhere. His defense was atrocious, and his bat is not worth the damage he does behind the plate.

  2. #1997
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeGamer81 View Post
    JD Davis was an amazing pickup, but I'm not sure he's the one to credit for that. His ML stats to that point weren't good, at least not his traditional ones. I bet that was his scouts' reccomendation.

    Is it that none of the Mets' pitchers can hold the runners, or that the Mets never have a catcher who can throw anybody out?

    I made a claim and then provided the link. Admit you're wrong next time.

    Who the **** cares about league rankings? The point you were trying to score was based on the premise that the Mets' catchers were actually better last year than this year, which isn't true. Ranking means literally nothing, and the actual statistics point to the opposite outcome. And you keep getting dunked on about this 2 WAR thing, so I won't reopen that wound except to say it's been sufficiently rebutted elsewhere. His defense was atrocious, and his bat is not worth the damage he does behind the plate.
    How convenient and hypocritical lol. Suggest how awful he is for the bad acquisitions but dont give him credit for the good ones.

    It's both. Again, I'm not suggesting Ramos is the second incarnation of Pudge Rodriguez or even John Buck for that matter.

    You provided it after the fact. Fangraphs said Met's catchers and specifically Ramos weren't last so I don't know where you got it from. You were the one who said they were -10 in DRS in 2018. I was bringing up rankings to suggest the Mets defense at the catcher's spot hasn't changed much regardless of who is behind the plate. Dunked on how? Because you keep repeating how atrocious of a signing he is. Sure, okay. Keep speaking it into fruition. Maybe one day you'll get somewhere.
    Last edited by metswon69; 11-23-2019 at 11:06 PM.

  3. #1998
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sick Of It All View Post
    Because he had not shown it in the big leagues does not mean he did not had that ability and he had show that in the minors

    .
    I understand that. Like I said I liked the move at the time and give credit to Brodie got it. However Brodie’s overall body of work has been bad

  4. #1999
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    TdA signed with the Braves for 2 years 16 million.

  5. #2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCrusher View Post
    I understand that. Like I said I liked the move at the time and give credit to Brodie got it. However Brodie’s overall body of work has been bad
    It’s been mixed but what hurts him is the Cano and Diaz acquisitions because they both were bad to horrible and what they gave up.

    Aside from that they got a pretty good middle of the rotation guy in Stroman, if he was not here the Mets would need 2 starters going into next season, now granted one of the guys they gave up could of possibly helped out.

    Ramos was a solid acquisition in my eyes considering their total shot show of catchers over the last few years.

    Davis was great

    Other solid pen moves aside from the main two guys that sucked.

    Also liked what he did with the draft, so for me he is about a C- GM the first year.

  6. #2001
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    Cano and Diaz has been horrible but if you're a betting man, you probably put money on them playing much better this year.

  7. #2002
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    Cano was supposed to be the loss leader who would bring them the closer of their dreams. Not sure how they were also coaxed into parting with prospects, too. But that's another story.

    They're a mess.
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears – but they seem kinda sensible...."

  8. #2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyubi256 View Post
    Cano and Diaz has been horrible but if you're a betting man, you probably put money on them playing much better this year.
    I hope so. Even If they do bounce back its still a god awful deal. I still don't understand how we managed to take on a albatross of a contract for a 36-37 year old AND give up one of the best position prospects in the game along with another good pitching prospect. I understand Diaz had a dominant 2018 but its not like he was dominant 3-4 straight years. plus ive never been comfortable giving up a huge package for a reliever/closer.

  9. #2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCrusher View Post
    I hope so. Even If they do bounce back its still a god awful deal. I still don't understand how we managed to take on a albatross of a contract for a 36-37 year old AND give up one of the best position prospects in the game along with another good pitching prospect. I understand Diaz had a dominant 2018 but its not like he was dominant 3-4 straight years. plus ive never been comfortable giving up a huge package for a reliever/closer.
    Trust me... after the year we had last year with a bullpen that blew as many games as it did and prevented us from making the playoffs basically, if someone was offering us 2018 Edwin Diaz in this trade with what we saw last year, we probably would jump and take it. Honestly if we had a decent closer we would've made the playoffs. If we had an elite closer (which is what he WAS supposed to be), we probably fight for a World Series.

    The amount of close games we lost in the end because of a horrid bullpen was the reason we missed the playoffs

  10. #2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyubi256 View Post
    Trust me... after the year we had last year with a bullpen that blew as many games as it did and prevented us from making the playoffs basically, if someone was offering us 2018 Edwin Diaz in this trade with what we saw last year, we probably would jump and take it. Honestly if we had a decent closer we would've made the playoffs. If we had an elite closer (which is what he WAS supposed to be), we probably fight for a World Series.

    The amount of close games we lost in the end because of a horrid bullpen was the reason we missed the playoffs
    This

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  11. #2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyubi256 View Post
    Trust me... after the year we had last year with a bullpen that blew as many games as it did and prevented us from making the playoffs basically, if someone was offering us 2018 Edwin Diaz in this trade with what we saw last year, we probably would jump and take it. Honestly if we had a decent closer we would've made the playoffs. If we had an elite closer (which is what he WAS supposed to be), we probably fight for a World Series.

    The amount of close games we lost in the end because of a horrid bullpen was the reason we missed the playoffs
    Totally agree. Looking at Diaz's games towards the end of 2018, he was not tailing off at all. He was doing great. So nothing suspicious there. There was no way anyone could have predicted 2019 for him. Was it mechanics? Mental? Did not jive with pitching coach? Who knows.

    However I believe that already one or two good relievers have already signed with another team. So not sure what BVW and company are waiting on, unless they're going for a bargain basement pickup or waiting out the market to swoop in and sign a reliever late in the off-season which is not always a good thing.

  12. #2007
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    I didn't see anything too different in Diazs stuff.... maybe he tipped pitches? They have 4 months to review tape and figure it out. I am hopeful he will be closer to 2018.

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  13. #2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by mookiewilson View Post
    However I believe that already one or two good relievers have already signed with another team. So not sure what BVW and company are waiting on, unless they're going for a bargain basement pickup or waiting out the market to swoop in and sign a reliever late in the off-season which is not always a good thing.
    I'm actually conflicted in this area. Because on the one hand I'd like to bet that Familia and Diaz will be better this year, but on the other hand they can be the same or worst and we would be screwed. For a guy (BVW) who said he doesn't like ifs or buts, this would mean you would have to get guys to improve because Familia and Diaz are big IFs. But on the other hand, with our rotation and if Diaz and Familia come back, we may not need anyone and it is better to spend the money elsewhere.

    In addition to that, it could be problematic to have too many good arms, because you can only use so many in a game and some may get rust from under use.

  14. #2009
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    All Things NL East & Around Baseball

    Quote Originally Posted by FloridaMetFan View Post
    I didn't see anything too different in Diazs stuff.... maybe he tipped pitches? They have 4 months to review tape and figure it out. I am hopeful he will be closer to 2018.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
    The ball was less juiced (or not at all in 2018).

    Look at deGrom’s crazy ERA in 2018. He was really almost just as good in 2019, but the ball did make a difference overall. In a SSS (like 1 season), Diaz just seemed to give up too much hard contact.

    I think once he lost confidence his results got worse and worse. He did look elite early in the season before his huge collapse against the Dodgers.

  15. #2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungStuna View Post
    The ball was less juiced (or not at all in 2018).

    Look at deGrom’s crazy ERA in 2018. He was really almost just as good in 2019, but the ball did make a difference overall. In a SSS (like 1 season), Diaz just seemed to give up too much hard contact.

    I think once he lost confidence his results got worse and worse. He did look elite early in the season before his huge collapse against the Dodgers.
    Yeah, so his stuff is there he just needs his confidence back and a less juicy ball. Not sure about Familia, he needs a better mix of pitches.... I wonder if a better catcher instills better stuff and confidence... also hes young ... so needs to experience some tough days to learn how to not over react. JMO

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    Last edited by FloridaMetFan; 11-26-2019 at 07:33 PM.

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