Like us on Facebook


Follow us on Twitter





Page 133 of 158 FirstFirst ... 3383123131132133134135143 ... LastLast
Results 1,981 to 1,995 of 2363
  1. #1981
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    35,571
    Quote Originally Posted by JoeGamer81 View Post
    I remember you saying he cost himself a lot of money by going this route. He didn't. He got a good slice more than we offered him -- which, I agree, was a good offer last year. My issue was, if he's going to take a one-year deal instead of the long-term deal, we should have been all over that. Instead, we panicked when he didn't take the deal and signed a DH pretending to be a catcher.

    Brodie talked about improving our defense, but to this point it hasn't gotten any better. And now it won't be, at least not at the catcher's position.
    The issue is the timing of the deal. If the Mets were sitting there with no catcher in the middle of January (when Grandal signed), I'm sure they would have been all over that. A lot of these guys overplay their hands because of the leverage they think they have. That's why all the push back is coming from the players association because players are not being paid in a timely manner and they're not getting what they believe is market value. Same thing happened to Grandal last offseason.

    The Mets are targeting defense, hence their interest in Chirinos. The problem is he's not going to sign because his ABs will be limited with Ramos here.
    Last edited by metswon69; 11-21-2019 at 09:21 PM.

  2. #1982
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,524
    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    The issue is the timing of the deal. If the Mets were sitting there with no catcher in the middle of January (when Grandal signed), I'm sure they would have been all over that. A lot of these guys overplay their hands because of the leverage they think they have. That's why all the push back is coming from the players association because players are not being paid in a timely manner and they're not getting what they believe is market value. Same thing happened to Grandal last offseason.

    The Mets are targeting defense, hence their interest in Chirinos. The problem is he's not going to sign because his ABs will be limited with Ramos here

    .
    I donít have faith in Brodie in doing much of anything or at least anything right lol

  3. #1983
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    60ft 6in away
    Posts
    13,150
    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    The issue is the timing of the deal. If the Mets were sitting there with no catcher in the middle of January (when Grandal signed), I'm sure they would have been all over that. A lot of these guys overplay their hands because of the leverage they think they have. That's why all the push back is coming from the players association because players are not being paid in a timely manner and they're not getting what they believe is market value. Same thing happened to Grandal last offseason.

    The Mets are targeting defense, hence their interest in Chirinos. The problem is he's not going to sign because his ABs will be limited with Ramos here.
    The issue is that they panicked. They signed Ramos before Realmuto was traded and well before Grandal signed. Brodie walked away from the table way too soon in both cases.

  4. #1984
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    35,571
    Quote Originally Posted by JoeGamer81 View Post
    The issue is that they panicked. They signed Ramos before Realmuto was traded and well before Grandal signed. Brodie walked away from the table way too soon in both cases.
    They weren't willing to lose out on all 3. I understand that. That's a Brodie thing though. The basic understanding as a former agent should have been that the player's market has been extremely soft for 3 or 4 years.
    Last edited by metswon69; 11-22-2019 at 12:24 AM.

  5. #1985
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    60ft 6in away
    Posts
    13,150
    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    They weren't willing to lose out on all 3. I understand that. That's a Brodie thing though. The basic understanding as a former agent should have been that the player's market has been extremely soft for 3 or 4 years.
    As usual, you're using a lot of words to say very little.

    Just say Brodie ****ed up. It's okay to say it was a bad move. You know that not wanting to miss out on all three is no excuse for the move they made. They signed the worst guy first. That was a bad call regardless of the market, but especially so lately.

  6. #1986
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    35,571
    Quote Originally Posted by JoeGamer81 View Post
    As usual, you're using a lot of words to say very little.

    Just say Brodie ****ed up. It's okay to say it was a bad move. You know that not wanting to miss out on all three is no excuse for the move they made. They signed the worst guy first. That was a bad call regardless of the market, but especially so lately.
    Its not like they signed someone who was complete garbage. It was the worst move of the 3 but its better them coming out with that than Nido and insert here. It gave them the ability to find a solid offensive catcher and not overextend themselves in terms of years and dollars.

  7. #1987
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    60ft 6in away
    Posts
    13,150
    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    Its not like they signed someone who was complete garbage. It was the worst move of the 3 but its better them coming out with that than Nido and insert here. It gave them the ability to find a solid offensive catcher and not overextend themselves in terms of years and dollars.
    Okay Dug. I don't know why it's so hard to comprehend that they could have stayed in the negotiations longer and still not missed out on all three. It was a panic move by a GM out of his depth.

    And yes, Ramos sucks. That's why in spite of him having another year on his contract, all anyone, including the media, can do is talking about getting rid of him and finding a real catcher. He's atrocious behind the plate.

  8. #1988
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    35,571
    Quote Originally Posted by JoeGamer81 View Post
    Okay Dug. I don't know why it's so hard to comprehend that they could have stayed in the negotiations longer and still not missed out on all three. It was a panic move by a GM out of his depth.

    And yes, Ramos sucks. That's why in spite of him having another year on his contract, all anyone, including the media, can do is talking about getting rid of him and finding a real catcher. He's atrocious behind the plate.
    They could have easily not ended up with any of them. Saying that they would have is all the benefit of hindsight. It was a gamble because the Marlins were asking the world for Realmuto and there was no reason to believe Grandal was going to get anything but a multi year deal.

    Ramos doesn't suck. His defense is mediocre but just because you keep saying it doesn't mean you can speak it into some kind of truth.

  9. #1989
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,524
    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    They could have easily not ended up with any of them. Saying that they would have is all the benefit of hindsight. It was a gamble because the Marlins were asking the world for Realmuto and there was no reason to believe Grandal was going to get anything but a multi year deal.

    Ramos doesn't suck. His defense is mediocre but just because you keep saying it doesn't mean you can speak it into some kind of truth.
    I agree Ramos doesn't suck BUT he is very flawed. I never had an issue wit the signing. It was ok not great. He does hit pretty well but he also has a tendency to hit ALOT of groundballs which given his lack of speed hurt us a lot but overall he was an upgrade offensively. defensively I have to disagree. he is a lot worse than Medicore. Anytime your top pitchers don't want you to catch them..thats an issue lol. Obviously not beign able to block balls was another big issue and given his lack of speed cost us a lot. So overall the signing was ok(which given Brodie's god awful track record I guess is positive lol) but id be lying if I said im totslly confident in him

  10. #1990
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    60ft 6in away
    Posts
    13,150
    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    They could have easily not ended up with any of them. Saying that they would have is all the benefit of hindsight. It was a gamble because the Marlins were asking the world for Realmuto and there was no reason to believe Grandal was going to get anything but a multi year deal.
    Neither of those things happened. Brodie also got bilked by the Mariners. You mean to tell me that this was him acting prudently? No, this was Brodie not knowing what the **** he was doing, losing his cool, and signing the easiest guy to sign of the three.

    To say he "easily" could have missed on all three is simply untrue. Grandal wound up taking a one year deal months later, and Muto got shipped for very little compared to what the reported asking price was originally. It would have taken a great deal of effort for the Mets to enter the season without one of those catchers.

    Ramos doesn't suck. His defense is mediocre but just because you keep saying it doesn't mean you can speak it into some kind of truth.
    No, he was horrible. By just about every measure, he was the worst or among the worst catchers in baseball. He was the worst catcher at preventing stolen bases, he was bottom-15 in framing (out of 123 qualifying players), Mets catchers (almost exclusively Ramos) were dead last in runs saved and runs above average. Wilson Ramos is a ****ing DH playing catcher. He's an okay bat at a position where you don't want to sacrifice defense unless you have an elite bat. And with defense this bad, we should be talking about a position change.

  11. #1991
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    35,571
    Quote Originally Posted by JoeGamer81 View Post
    Neither of those things happened. Brodie also got bilked by the Mariners. You mean to tell me that this was him acting prudently? No, this was Brodie not knowing what the **** he was doing, losing his cool, and signing the easiest guy to sign of the three.

    To say he "easily" could have missed on all three is simply untrue. Grandal wound up taking a one year deal months later, and Muto got shipped for very little compared to what the reported asking price was originally. It would have taken a great deal of effort for the Mets to enter the season without one of those catchers.



    No, he was horrible. By just about every measure, he was the worst or among the worst catchers in baseball. He was the worst catcher at preventing stolen bases, he was bottom-15 in framing (out of 123 qualifying players), Mets catchers (almost exclusively Ramos) were dead last in runs saved and runs above average. Wilson Ramos is a ****ing DH playing catcher. He's an okay bat at a position where you don't want to sacrifice defense unless you have an elite bat. And with defense this bad, we should be talking about a position change.
    It doesn't change the fact that those were the original terms. Never said it was him acting prudently. I think he was trying to be pragmatic about his options given the trade market for Realmuto and the initial asking price for Grandal. Neither of which the Mets were comfortable with.

    Preventing stolen bases is a pitcher's job as well and the Mets have had issues with preventing stolen bases previous to Ramos. Have you seen how Syndergaard holds runners? Btw, nice try making stats up. They weren't dead last in DRS. They were 26th and they had a positive defensive rating.

    https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...2-31&sort=24,d

    Guess what their ranking for DRS among catchers in 2018 was btw?

    https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...ter=&players=0

    I know it doesn't sit with your narrative that its a strictly a Ramos thing though.

  12. #1992
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    60ft 6in away
    Posts
    13,150
    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    It doesn't change the fact that those were the original terms. Never said it was him acting prudently. I think he was trying to be pragmatic about his options given the trade market for Realmuto and the initial asking price for Grandal. Neither of which the Mets were comfortable with.
    This is Dugmet levels of double-speak. "I'm not saying it was the right thing to do, I'm just saying it could be considered the right thing to do."

    It wasn't. He failed. The two guys he didn't like the asking prices for both went for far lower prices later on. He should have stayed in the negotiations. But he has no clue what he's doing, so he signed Ramos.

    Preventing stolen bases is a pitcher's job as well and the Mets have had issues with preventing stolen bases previous to Ramos. Have you seen how Syndergaard holds runners?
    Syndergaard is not the only pitcher on the Mets. And the Mets have not really had any quality backstops lately. It's not just Ramos that sucks at defense, d'Arnaud was bad too, so was K-Plaw. But Ramos is terrible.

    Btw, nice try making stats up. They weren't dead last in DRS. They were 26th and they had a positive defensive rating.

    https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...2-31&sort=24,d
    Yeah, because I just make **** up all the time, right? You're a worse troll than Mary at this point, dude.

    I looked at a lot of stats yesterday, but I believe the runs saved I was speaking about were here, several columns:

    https://www.baseball-reference.com/l...fielding.shtml

    I don't know what value the Def stat is at fangraphs, but DRS has the Mets at third-to-last, -14. And Baseball Prospectus has Ramos individually scraping the bottom on nearly all stats as well, especially the framing-related stats, but also the generalized Catcher Defensive Adjustment which has him ranked 113th in baseball, at -8.6.

    Guess what their ranking for DRS among catchers in 2018 was btw?
    -10. So four runs better than 2019.

    I know it doesn't sit with your narrative that its a strictly a Ramos thing though.
    We know Mets catchers have sucked for years. I'm saying that Ramos is also terrible, and we should not have signed him.

  13. #1993
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    35,571
    Quote Originally Posted by JoeGamer81 View Post
    This is Dugmet levels of double-speak. "I'm not saying it was the right thing to do, I'm just saying it could be considered the right thing to do."

    It wasn't. He failed. The two guys he didn't like the asking prices for both went for far lower prices later on. He should have stayed in the negotiations. But he has no clue what he's doing, so he signed Ramos.



    Syndergaard is not the only pitcher on the Mets. And the Mets have not really had any quality backstops lately. It's not just Ramos that sucks at defense, d'Arnaud was bad too, so was K-Plaw. But Ramos is terrible.



    Yeah, because I just make **** up all the time, right? You're a worse troll than Mary at this point, dude.

    I looked at a lot of stats yesterday, but I believe the runs saved I was speaking about were here, several columns:

    https://www.baseball-reference.com/l...fielding.shtml

    I don't know what value the Def stat is at fangraphs, but DRS has the Mets at third-to-last, -14. And Baseball Prospectus has Ramos individually scraping the bottom on nearly all stats as well, especially the framing-related stats, but also the generalized Catcher Defensive Adjustment which has him ranked 113th in baseball, at -8.6.



    -10. So four runs better than 2019.



    We know Mets catchers have sucked for years. I'm saying that Ramos is also terrible, and we should not have signed him.
    If he had no clue what he was doing, he wouldn't have gotten JD Davis for a top 300 prospect and a couple of guys who probably have no major league future. At the end of the day, its a numbers game in terms of acquisitions. No I'm saying that ultimately he did make the mistake of jumping the gun but I understand why he did given the circumstances of the other players available. What is so hard to understand about?

    I used Syndergaard as an example. The Mets pitching staff as a whole has been bad at holding runners with the exception of deGrom.

    Next time provide a link if you're going make a claim like that.

    It was 26th in the league in 2018 as opposed to 27th in 2019. I said ranking, not overall numbers and that comes with guys like Plawecki being infinitely better framers than Ramos. I'm aware Ramos is a bad defensive catcher but I'm not buying the atrocity you portray him as. His offense is still significantly better than league average and he's still a 2 WAR catcher. Ironic you mention all those Baseball reference stats and forget to mention that Ramos was a positive dWAR catcher last year btw.
    Last edited by metswon69; 11-23-2019 at 05:48 PM.

  14. #1994
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,524
    Quote Originally Posted by metswon69 View Post
    If he had no clue what he was doing, he wouldn't have gotten JD Davis for a top 300 prospect and a couple of guys who probably have no major league future. At the end of the day, its a numbers game in terms of acquisitions. No I'm saying that ultimately he did make the mistake of jumping the gun too early but I understand why he did given the circumstances of the other players available. What is so hard to understand about?

    I used Syndergaard as an example. The Mets pitching staff as a whole has been bad at holding runners with the exception of deGrom.

    Next time provide a link if you're going make a claim like that.

    It was 26th in the league in 2018 as opposed to 27th in 2019. I said ranking, not overall numbers and that comes with guys like Plawecki being infinitely better framers than Ramos. I'm aware Ramos is a bad defensive catcher but I'm not buying his this atrocity you portray him as. His offense is still significantly better than league average and he's still a 2 WAR catcher. Ironic you mention all those Baseball reference stats and forget to mention that Ramos was a positive dWAR catcher last year btw

    .
    I think you make fair points about Ramos but I still have no faith in Brodie. Yes we all agree JD Davis was his best move but to be fair NOBODY including Brodie could have imagined he would play like he did this year because he hadnít shown it on the big league level before this year. His other moves range from mediocre to awful. I would give Brodie about a D grade so far. Now I am a positive fan so I always try to give another chance but he needs to start delivering with moves and starting to replenish the farm system

  15. #1995
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    The Boogie Down
    Posts
    100,440
    Quote Originally Posted by JCrusher View Post
    I think you make fair points about Ramos but I still have no faith in Brodie. Yes we all agree JD Davis was his best move but to be fair NOBODY including Brodie could have imagined he would play like he did this year because he hadnít shown it on the big league level before this year. His other moves range from mediocre to awful. I would give Brodie about a D grade so far. Now I am a positive fan so I always try to give another chance but he needs to start delivering with moves and starting to replenish the farm system
    Because he had not shown it in the big leagues does not mean he did not had that ability and he had show that in the minors.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •