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  1. #1636
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    2019 Atlanta Braves Regular Season Game Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BraveWorld23 View Post
    Very good signing. Still has to clear waivers I think? But i dont think anyone is picking up that 11 million left on his deal
    Anybody who claims him would only owe him 2.4 million but it’s still unlikely. I read he was looking good during his rehab stint in AA ball. If he can play anything close to his 2018 numbers then this could be a very solid pick up.

    I’m wondering how long McCann has been hurting for. The last month he’s slashed .224/.333/.286/.619. The power hasn’t been there and that would make sense if his knee has been a problem. Prior to that he was pretty solid with the bat but only a .4 WAR on the season. Flowers has been pretty bad all season. It’s not crazy to think if Cervelli is actually healthy that he could end up being our best catching option.


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    2019 Vikings Draft :
    Round 1: Garrett Bradbury C N.C. State
    Round 2: Irv Smith TE Alabama
    Round 3: Alex Mattison RB Boise State
    Round 4: Dru Samia G Oklahoma
    Round 5: Cameron Smith LB USC
    Round 6: Armon Watts DT Arkansas
    Round 6: Marcus Epps S Wyoming
    Round 6: Oli Udoh OT Elon
    Round 7: Kris Boyd CB Texas
    Round 7: Dillon Mitchell WR Oregon
    Round 7: Olabisi Johnson WR Colorado State
    Round 7: Austin Cutting LS Air Force


  2. #1637
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    Hechavarria has been so good, going to suck when he stops hitting.

  3. #1638
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrench View Post
    Hechavarria has been so good, going to suck when he stops hitting.
    That’s fine, the team doesn’t need his bat much longer. Swanson started his rehab assignment today. As long as he doesn’t suffer a set back he’ll reclaim his starting spot in about a week or so.


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    2019 Vikings Draft :
    Round 1: Garrett Bradbury C N.C. State
    Round 2: Irv Smith TE Alabama
    Round 3: Alex Mattison RB Boise State
    Round 4: Dru Samia G Oklahoma
    Round 5: Cameron Smith LB USC
    Round 6: Armon Watts DT Arkansas
    Round 6: Marcus Epps S Wyoming
    Round 6: Oli Udoh OT Elon
    Round 7: Kris Boyd CB Texas
    Round 7: Dillon Mitchell WR Oregon
    Round 7: Olabisi Johnson WR Colorado State
    Round 7: Austin Cutting LS Air Force


  4. #1639
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    Another come back win for this team


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    2019 Vikings Draft :
    Round 1: Garrett Bradbury C N.C. State
    Round 2: Irv Smith TE Alabama
    Round 3: Alex Mattison RB Boise State
    Round 4: Dru Samia G Oklahoma
    Round 5: Cameron Smith LB USC
    Round 6: Armon Watts DT Arkansas
    Round 6: Marcus Epps S Wyoming
    Round 6: Oli Udoh OT Elon
    Round 7: Kris Boyd CB Texas
    Round 7: Dillon Mitchell WR Oregon
    Round 7: Olabisi Johnson WR Colorado State
    Round 7: Austin Cutting LS Air Force


  5. #1640
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    Catcher will be an interesting position to watch this offseason. What do you do in 2020 for your 2 catchers if you are the Braves? Flowers has an option for 2020, McCann made only $2.0 million this year and will be a free agent. Alex Jackson would seem to be the only catching prospect who would be an option for 2020 and it might be too much to even ask him to be the backup, considering he's hitting .224/.311/.510/.821 with 25 home runs and 114k in 290 at bats. The power looks nice but the rest of that line looks pretty rough.

    I assume that even counting on Alex Jackson to be the backup next year would be too much, as I guess they will send him back to Gwinnett for another year and hope he can make more contact and cut down on the strikeouts. I have no clue how he has looked defensively. I assume we will see more of him over the next month plus and get a better idea of how close he might be to being ready to do anything at the MLB level.

    Flowers has a $6 million option with a $2 million buyout for 2020. I assume that just about everyone would agree that option needs to be declined? I can't imagine paying him $6 million to come back in 2020 since he isn't much of a threat with the bat anymore and isn't highly regarded defensively, other than coaches talking about his framing.

    I would assume that they would like to have McCann back at the right price. My one concern with McCann is that I don't think they should count on him catching 80 to 90 games in 2020, as his body might not be able to handle it. He has already appeared in 73 games this season thus far, with a month left to go and I think that is probably too much work for him. It would be better if he was able to catch 60 to 70 games over a full season and have his battery mate catch the other 90 to 100 games. I think he would be much more likely to stay healthy and hopefully be stronger late in the season that way.
    Last edited by hector olivera?; 08-23-2019 at 10:03 AM.

  6. #1641
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    Quote Originally Posted by hector olivera? View Post
    Catcher will be an interesting position to watch this offseason. What do you do in 2020 for your 2 catchers if you are the Braves? Flowers has an option for 2020, McCann made only $2.0 million this year and will be a free agent. Alex Jackson would seem to be the only catching prospect who would be an option for 2020 and it might be too much to even ask him to be the backup, considering he's hitting .224/.311/.510/.821 with 25 home runs and 114k in 290 at bats. The power looks nice but the rest of that line looks pretty rough.

    I assume that even counting on Alex Jackson to be the backup next year would be too much, as I guess they will send him back to Gwinnett for another year and hope he can make more contact and cut down on the strikeouts. I have no clue how he has looked defensively. I assume we will see more of him over the next month plus and get a better idea of how close he might be to being ready to do anything at the MLB level.

    Flowers has a $6 million option with a $2 million buyout for 2020. I assume that just about everyone would agree that option needs to be declined? I can't imagine paying him $6 million to come back in 2020 since he isn't much of a threat with the bat anymore and isn't highly regarded defensively, other than coaches talking about his framing.

    I would assume that they would like to have McCann back at the right price. My one concern with McCann is that I don't think they should count on him catching 80 to 90 games in 2020, as his body might not be able to handle it. He has already appeared in 73 games this season thus far, with a month left to go and I think that is probably too much work for him. It would be better if he was able to catch 60 to 70 games over a full season and have his battery mate catch the other 90 to 100 games. I think he would be much more likely to stay healthy and hopefully be stronger late in the season that way.
    I don´t think Alex Jackson is in the Braves plans at all, they offered him to Detroit in the Shane Greene trade and even though he´s already on the 40 man roster we are going to sign yet another catcher for the stretch run in Cervelli. He won´t survive on the 40 man roster an entire season anymore. He´s going to be traded, no question. The Braves have a difficult choice to make on who they want as a back up next year, you said Flowers is not good defensively but DRS disagree with you, he´s a positive 4, besides he´s 3rd in pitch framing in baseball while having a lot less innings at the position than the two players ahead of him, He also have a 1.7 fWAR.

    McCann might be a better offensive player, but I´m not so sure of that, he certainly a slightly below average hitter, Flower has been worse this year, but recently he´s been much better, so this might simply be a down year for him. Flowers is younger and more durable, he´s an excellent backup catcher, if the Braves are going to try and get an upgrade we should keep the best option as a backup, that´s Flowers.

    Yasmani Grandal is going to be the most sought after C this off season, he already turned down a QO so he can´t be offered one again, he is in his 3rd consecutive season as a 4+ fWAR player, the Braves doesn´t have a lot of places to relocate the money, so they can go hard after him. That makes Flower the better choice to comeback as a backup.

  7. #1642
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    2019 Vikings Draft :
    Round 1: Garrett Bradbury C N.C. State
    Round 2: Irv Smith TE Alabama
    Round 3: Alex Mattison RB Boise State
    Round 4: Dru Samia G Oklahoma
    Round 5: Cameron Smith LB USC
    Round 6: Armon Watts DT Arkansas
    Round 6: Marcus Epps S Wyoming
    Round 6: Oli Udoh OT Elon
    Round 7: Kris Boyd CB Texas
    Round 7: Dillon Mitchell WR Oregon
    Round 7: Olabisi Johnson WR Colorado State
    Round 7: Austin Cutting LS Air Force


  8. #1643
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    Quote Originally Posted by beldugo View Post
    I don´t think Alex Jackson is in the Braves plans at all, they offered him to Detroit in the Shane Greene trade and even though he´s already on the 40 man roster we are going to sign yet another catcher for the stretch run in Cervelli. He won´t survive on the 40 man roster an entire season anymore. He´s going to be traded, no question. The Braves have a difficult choice to make on who they want as a back up next year, you said Flowers is not good defensively but DRS disagree with you, he´s a positive 4, besides he´s 3rd in pitch framing in baseball while having a lot less innings at the position than the two players ahead of him, He also have a 1.7 fWAR.

    McCann might be a better offensive player, but I´m not so sure of that, he certainly a slightly below average hitter, Flower has been worse this year, but recently he´s been much better, so this might simply be a down year for him. Flowers is younger and more durable, he´s an excellent backup catcher, if the Braves are going to try and get an upgrade we should keep the best option as a backup, that´s Flowers.

    Yasmani Grandal is going to be the most sought after C this off season, he already turned down a QO so he can´t be offered one again, he is in his 3rd consecutive season as a 4+ fWAR player, the Braves doesn´t have a lot of places to relocate the money, so they can go hard after him. That makes Flower the better choice to comeback as a backup.
    I don’t see how they get these numbers for Flowers. I watch every game and most pitches he doesn’t even try to frame, if close. He drops several balls a game, right out of the mit. He can’t throw or hit to save his life. And instead of blocking balls, he backhands at them. He allows so many pitches by him and drops so many balls that countless players have moved into scoring position or even up to third. I almost cry every game I see him back there bc I know he’s dropping several and not even trying to frame countless borderline pitches.

    If he is considered a good defensive catcher, than the metrics are totally off for that position. He blows and that’s all there is to it. He was supposed to be our number one, but McCann took control. Doesn’t that make you think that even managers see it? And I can almost guarantee you that opposing pitchers don’t blink when he comes up, unlike with McCann. Just saying.

  9. #1644
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    Flowers has not been good this year. That said, I also do not agree with the following statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Number2sena View Post
    He was supposed to be our number one, but McCann took control. Doesn’t that make you think that even managers see it?
    First off, who says Flowers was suppose to be the #1? Did you base that off salary? I never saw anything suggesting playing Flowers over McCann was the plan. It was always a platoon situation. And one that favors McCann getting more playing time because he is a LH bat, meaning he should play more often since there are more RH starters. And that has been the case this year.

    McCann - 73 games, 274 PAs, 239 ABs
    Flowers - 67 games, 245 PAs, 219 ABs

    That is certainly not a drastic difference in playing time. And Flowers has had to get a fair amount of ABs against RHP to keep those totals close to even. McCann has only had over 10 ABs more than Flowers in one month (July), but McCann didn't really get more ABs than he was otherwise getting, Flowers just got less. I think the extra rest from the AS break and Flowers struggles allowed Snit to play McCann a bit more in July, which makes sense because he was playing better.

    Has McCann been better than Flowers this year - absolutely. But the idea that McCann some how took the job from Flowers due to Flowers being so horrible is just not backed by stats/facts. They have received fairly even playing time over the year, which was the plan all along with two aging catchers. Flowers was also a platoon player with Suzuki the last 3 years, suggesting even further that ATL never viewed him as a "#1".

    Lastly on Flowers - or defensive metrics - I agree they are flawed. All defensive metrics are flawed because they are highly subjective; I think Catcher is the hardest to get right. I don't think they are useless, but they are certainly flawed.

    As for Alex Jackson, I agree his future in ATL is not looking good. His defense is not going to carry him and his K-rate is beyond worrisome. I just don't see how ATL will use him, or protect him on the 40 man roster, moving forward.

    Moving forward I find the catcher position very troubling. First, ATL does not have any prospect even close to MLB ready right now that shows much (or any) promise. The FA market is crap in 2020, except possibly Grandal who has a mutual option for next year. My guess is Grandal opts out as the FA Catcher market is so bad, plus he will not have a draft pick attached to him, meaning that he is almost assured of getting paid this year. If ATL doesn't go after Grandal (if he is available), then they will almost have to look at the trade market for a candidate. I do not think ATL can keep moving forward with these aging platoon catchers.

    I would actually be in favor of going after Grandal. I was last year as well. He is solid defensively and a very good (.800+ OPS) hitter. I will do another post reflecting how the money for Grandal could work into ATL's budget moving forward separate from this one.

  10. #1645
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    I think signing Grandal will take something like 3/50. ATL would also have to sign a back-up, as Grandal probably is only taking 400-450 ABs. I say ATL as McCann to be the back-up at 2M again in 2020. I think McCann plays on ATL or retires, so this seems doable.

    Here is a look at what ATL could start their roster with for 2020:

    Roster
    Acuna - RF - 1M
    Swanson - SS - 3M (guess at ARB amount)
    Freeman - 1B - 22M
    Donaldson - 3B - 22M
    Grandal - C - 16M
    Riley - LF - .6M
    Abies - 2B - 1M
    Inciarte - CF - 7M
    Soroka - .6M
    Fried - .6M
    Folty - 8M (guess at ARB amount)
    Wilson - .6M
    Melancon - 14M
    Greene - 7M (guess at ARB amount)
    Jackson - .6M
    Martin - 4M (guess at ARB number)
    Newcomb - .6M
    Culberson - UTIL - 3M (guess at ARB amount)
    McCann - 2M

    Buyouts
    Flowers - 2M
    Markakis - 2M
    Teheran - 1M
    Hamilton - 1M

    Total - 119.6M

    That leaves 1 SP, 3 RP, and 2 bench players. Keeping ATL's salary around the 135M mark they came in at this year, that leaves about 15.5M to round out the roster. The biggie on this the the other SP. If ATL wants a top-tier arm, they can't sign Grandal and Donaldson without a noticeable overall salary increase.

  11. #1646
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach100 View Post
    I think signing Grandal will take something like 3/50. ATL would also have to sign a back-up, as Grandal probably is only taking 400-450 ABs. I say ATL as McCann to be the back-up at 2M again in 2020. I think McCann plays on ATL or retires, so this seems doable.

    Here is a look at what ATL could start their roster with for 2020:

    Roster
    Acuna - RF - 1M
    Swanson - SS - 3M (guess at ARB amount)
    Freeman - 1B - 22M
    Donaldson - 3B - 22M
    Grandal - C - 16M
    Riley - LF - .6M
    Abies - 2B - 1M
    Inciarte - CF - 7M
    Soroka - .6M
    Fried - .6M
    Folty - 8M (guess at ARB amount)
    Wilson - .6M
    Melancon - 14M
    Greene - 7M (guess at ARB amount)
    Jackson - .6M
    Martin - 4M (guess at ARB number)
    Newcomb - .6M
    Culberson - UTIL - 3M (guess at ARB amount)
    McCann - 2M

    Buyouts
    Flowers - 2M
    Markakis - 2M
    Teheran - 1M
    Hamilton - 1M

    Total - 119.6M

    That leaves 1 SP, 3 RP, and 2 bench players. Keeping ATL's salary around the 135M mark they came in at this year, that leaves about 15.5M to round out the roster. The biggie on this the the other SP. If ATL wants a top-tier arm, they can't sign Grandal and Donaldson without a noticeable overall salary increase.
    Martin is a free agent. The contract he signed with Texas guaranteed he could become a free agent at the end. I also think Donaldson will get a raise from his current deal.
    2019 Vikings Draft :
    Round 1: Garrett Bradbury C N.C. State
    Round 2: Irv Smith TE Alabama
    Round 3: Alex Mattison RB Boise State
    Round 4: Dru Samia G Oklahoma
    Round 5: Cameron Smith LB USC
    Round 6: Armon Watts DT Arkansas
    Round 6: Marcus Epps S Wyoming
    Round 6: Oli Udoh OT Elon
    Round 7: Kris Boyd CB Texas
    Round 7: Dillon Mitchell WR Oregon
    Round 7: Olabisi Johnson WR Colorado State
    Round 7: Austin Cutting LS Air Force


  12. #1647
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    O’Day pitched a scoreless inning. Snit said the feedback was encouraging.


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    2019 Vikings Draft :
    Round 1: Garrett Bradbury C N.C. State
    Round 2: Irv Smith TE Alabama
    Round 3: Alex Mattison RB Boise State
    Round 4: Dru Samia G Oklahoma
    Round 5: Cameron Smith LB USC
    Round 6: Armon Watts DT Arkansas
    Round 6: Marcus Epps S Wyoming
    Round 6: Oli Udoh OT Elon
    Round 7: Kris Boyd CB Texas
    Round 7: Dillon Mitchell WR Oregon
    Round 7: Olabisi Johnson WR Colorado State
    Round 7: Austin Cutting LS Air Force


  13. #1648
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikingsfan0845 View Post
    Martin is a free agent. The contract he signed with Texas guaranteed he could become a free agent at the end. I also think Donaldson will get a raise from his current deal.
    At Donaldson’s age, a 23M (ish) deal for multiple years is pretty good. He may get more, but teams seem to be shying away from signing big contracts for aging players.

    And I could certainly be wrong Martin. I was cross-referencing Spotrac and BR.


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  14. #1649
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    Serious question...

    Camargo looked like a real solid ML hitter for 1.5 years. Do you think his drastic decline this year was a product of shaken confidence and limited playing time or was it simple regression?

    And if you think it was the former, would you be willing to try him as the everyday 3B again in 2020?


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  15. #1650
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coach100 View Post
    At Donaldson’s age, a 23M (ish) deal for multiple years is pretty good. He may get more, but teams seem to be shying away from signing big contracts for aging players.

    And I could certainly be wrong Martin. I was cross-referencing Spotrac and BR.


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    Yeah I’m not sure why spotrac hasn’t been updated but at the time of the trade it was reported Martin would be a FA.

    DOB was tweeting the other day Donaldson could be looking at a 2 year 55 million deal with an option for a 3rd year. Just his 2 cents, not a report. Personally, I’ll pay him whatever he wants (within reason) to keep him here for 2 more years.


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    2019 Vikings Draft :
    Round 1: Garrett Bradbury C N.C. State
    Round 2: Irv Smith TE Alabama
    Round 3: Alex Mattison RB Boise State
    Round 4: Dru Samia G Oklahoma
    Round 5: Cameron Smith LB USC
    Round 6: Armon Watts DT Arkansas
    Round 6: Marcus Epps S Wyoming
    Round 6: Oli Udoh OT Elon
    Round 7: Kris Boyd CB Texas
    Round 7: Dillon Mitchell WR Oregon
    Round 7: Olabisi Johnson WR Colorado State
    Round 7: Austin Cutting LS Air Force


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