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  1. #601
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    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    I strongly disagree. Hall of famers in their prime don't often become available , especially ones that had so many favorable links to the white Sox. They made a fake offer lol, couldn't even compete with the Padres offer.

    There isn't a cap in the mlb, so throwing money at machado doesn't preclude the sox from getting arms for next season.

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    We drafted Nick Madrigal 4th and traded Chris Sale for Moncada. Maybe they wanted to see if Moncada could transition to 3rd, which I think he did pretty damn good. Also, Anthony Rendon is availy this offseason if that didn't work out. They made an offer they wanted to give Machado, he got more, and they tried a different route, in a clear non competitive year. All of us knew that we weren't going to compete in 2019 the day Kopech had Tommy J.

    I'm not sure why anyone would dwell on not getting Machado, and especially Harper. We are 2 games behind the Padres with a make shift pitching staff, while dealing with plenty of injuries, our top pitching and hitting prospect aren't up, and we didn't blow our wad a year before we should have. We literally have nothing to ***** about. We are in a great position.

  2. #602
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    Quote Originally Posted by dabears34ft View Post
    We drafted Nick Madrigal 4th and traded Chris Sale for Moncada. Maybe they wanted to see if Moncada could transition to 3rd, which I think he did pretty damn good. Also, Anthony Rendon is availy this offseason if that didn't work out. They made an offer they wanted to give Machado, he got more, and they tried a different route, in a clear non competitive year. All of us knew that we weren't going to compete in 2019 the day Kopech had Tommy J.

    I'm not sure why anyone would dwell on not getting Machado, and especially Harper. We are 2 games behind the Padres with a make shift pitching staff, while dealing with plenty of injuries, our top pitching and hitting prospect aren't up, and we didn't blow our wad a year before we should have. We literally have nothing to ***** about. We are in a great position.
    I agree we're in a great position. I don't care what our record or another team's record is. Passing on a young hall of famer in his prime is the wrong move. He was ours , with a competitive offer.


    I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. Here's to a great 2020!
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    Last edited by blams; 08-23-2019 at 08:55 AM.

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  3. #603
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    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    I strongly disagree. Hall of famers in their prime don't often become available , especially ones that had so many favorable links to the white Sox. They made a fake offer lol, couldn't even compete with the Padres offer.

    There isn't a cap in the mlb, so throwing money at machado doesn't preclude the sox from getting arms for next season.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    You're out of your mind if you think giving Machado 300+ million last year wouldn't have affected us in FA this year. Cap or no Cap, our FO still gets a cap from JR and an extra 30 million on the books would extremely dictate our approach in 2019 FA.

  4. #604
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    Harper would have filled a bigger need, RF.

    Very happy with Moncada at 3B, have to think that Hahn had that in the back of his mind when dealing with Machado.
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  5. #605
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    You keep saying "Passing on a young Hall of Famer in his prime". Just because, in your opinion he's a future Hall of Famer in your mind, doesn't mean you grossly overpay a guy in a position that we don't really need.

    In Baseball, filling pressing needs is more important than overpaying luxury's. We had a year of development this year to see what we had with Moncada at 3B. By all accounts, that was a good move on our part. Madrigal is going to be our franchise 2B. While no specs are sure things, his elite contract rate, his speed, and his potential Gold Glove caliber defense have me pretty damn confident in his future success. We drafted Vaughn to be a 1B/DH. He carries elite bat skills as well. We plan on resigning Abreu, which we should. He probably won't break the bank, but he's the definition of consistent. 2 of 3 OF spots are etched in stone with Eloy and Robert.

    We needed a Catcher, which I think we found in McCann.
    We need a veteran pitcher to stabilize our rotation. That's Priority 1 this offseason.
    We need a deeper Bullpen because that's the best way to have sustained success, and preserve your Rotation.
    We need a DH, at least Vaughn is ready. We should have Collins in the majors right now though to see if he can carry over his recent success at AAA. He's been on fire. It's kind of a crime he's not our everyday DH.
    We can use an upgrade for our 3rd OF spot, but I wouldn't call it a need. We have Leury who has been solid, and we have a few guys in the minors that might compete for a spot in the future. I would probably sign a vet on a 1 year deal for RF next year, to allow Leury to be our super Utility guy.

    Blowing 300+ million on Machado made no sense. We now have Moncada locked up until 2024 at 3B, Anderson until 2025 at SS and Madrigal for a very long time at 2B.

    Ask yourself what is a better situation:

    Machado 3B
    Anderson SS
    Moncada 2B
    30+ million per year less to sign an Ace, DH, RF, Relievers

    or

    Moncada 3B
    Anderson SS
    Madrigal 2B
    30+ Million per year to spend on filling all our roster holes

    Give me option B any day of the week. These mega contracts destroy franchises at a way higher % than they work out. For example:

    Bryce Harper: $330 million 13 years. Team looks like it won't make the playoffs.
    Manny Machado: $300 million 10 years. Team isn't going to make the playoffs.
    Alex Rodriguez: $275 million 10 years. Texas never made the playoffs with him.
    Albert Pujols: $240 million 10 years. The Angels have made the playoffs 1 time in 8 years since.
    Robinson Cano: $240 million 10 years. No team he's been on has made the playoffs since.
    Prince Fielder: $214 million 9 years. That turned out real good lol.
    Yoenis Cespedes: $110 million 4 years. I bring him up because many in were mad we didn't go after him.
    Miguel Cabrera: $248 million 8 years. They never sniffed the playoffs during that contract, and won't til it's up.


    Now maybe I'd consider it with Machado if he wasn't a .280 career hitter who doesn't even have an elite BB rate. Or Harper who was coming off a .250 season, and is basically right there again.

  6. #606
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    Quote Originally Posted by dabears34ft View Post
    You keep saying "Passing on a young Hall of Famer in his prime". Just because, in your opinion he's a future Hall of Famer in your mind, doesn't mean you grossly overpay a guy in a position that we don't really need.

    In Baseball, filling pressing needs is more important than overpaying luxury's. We had a year of development this year to see what we had with Moncada at 3B. By all accounts, that was a good move on our part. Madrigal is going to be our franchise 2B. While no specs are sure things, his elite contract rate, his speed, and his potential Gold Glove caliber defense have me pretty damn confident in his future success. We drafted Vaughn to be a 1B/DH. He carries elite bat skills as well. We plan on resigning Abreu, which we should. He probably won't break the bank, but he's the definition of consistent. 2 of 3 OF spots are etched in stone with Eloy and Robert.

    We needed a Catcher, which I think we found in McCann.
    We need a veteran pitcher to stabilize our rotation. That's Priority 1 this offseason.
    We need a deeper Bullpen because that's the best way to have sustained success, and preserve your Rotation.
    We need a DH, at least Vaughn is ready. We should have Collins in the majors right now though to see if he can carry over his recent success at AAA. He's been on fire. It's kind of a crime he's not our everyday DH.
    We can use an upgrade for our 3rd OF spot, but I wouldn't call it a need. We have Leury who has been solid, and we have a few guys in the minors that might compete for a spot in the future. I would probably sign a vet on a 1 year deal for RF next year, to allow Leury to be our super Utility guy.

    Blowing 300+ million on Machado made no sense. We now have Moncada locked up until 2024 at 3B, Anderson until 2025 at SS and Madrigal for a very long time at 2B.

    Ask yourself what is a better situation:

    Machado 3B
    Anderson SS
    Moncada 2B
    30+ million per year less to sign an Ace, DH, RF, Relievers

    or

    Moncada 3B
    Anderson SS
    Madrigal 2B
    30+ Million per year to spend on filling all our roster holes

    Give me option B any day of the week. These mega contracts destroy franchises at a way higher % than they work out. For example:

    Bryce Harper: $330 million 13 years. Team looks like it won't make the playoffs.
    Manny Machado: $300 million 10 years. Team isn't going to make the playoffs.
    Alex Rodriguez: $275 million 10 years. Texas never made the playoffs with him.
    Albert Pujols: $240 million 10 years. The Angels have made the playoffs 1 time in 8 years since.
    Robinson Cano: $240 million 10 years. No team he's been on has made the playoffs since.
    Prince Fielder: $214 million 9 years. That turned out real good lol.
    Yoenis Cespedes: $110 million 4 years. I bring him up because many in were mad we didn't go after him.
    Miguel Cabrera: $248 million 8 years. They never sniffed the playoffs during that contract, and won't til it's up.


    Now maybe I'd consider it with Machado if he wasn't a .280 career hitter who doesn't even have an elite BB rate. Or Harper who was coming off a .250 season, and is basically right there again.
    So explain to the class, why the FO went hard after Machado...........Why they brought in his brother in law and his best friend? Because they obviously do not agree with your points.

  7. #607
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    The FO wanted Machado badly....IMO I like this infield the best,Moncada,Machado,Mandigral and Vaughn around the horn...........Jiminez,Anderson,Robert from left to right....Collins behind the dish. Tho I prefer that Jiminez becomes a full time DH, but that will happen when Abreu is gone.

  8. #608
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bainsy View Post
    So explain to the class, why the FO went hard after Machado...........Why they brought in his brother in law and his best friend? Because they obviously do not agree with your points.
    I'm not saying they shouldn't have went after him. I'm not saying I'm mad they went after him. I'm saying that, when he reached a price they didn't feel comfortable spending, they should have and did stop pursuing him. Obviously he was plan A for our infield. None of us were sold on Anderson at SS or Moncada in general. But in the end we didn't overpay him, Anderson is proving pretty damn valuable at SS, as evidenced by our struggles without him, and Moncada has come into his own at the plate and at 3B. We would all be lying to ourselves if we said Today that we knew Moncada and Anderson were going to improve this much. Hell none of us thought Giolito was going to be putting up top 10 starting pitching numbers this year.

    Don't twist my words. My whole point in all of this is to stop ****ing crying about not signing Machado, as if it effected our future success in any way shape or form. As White Sox fans, we should be ecstatic at the improvement our young core is making, and the direction we are heading. Not dwelling on not getting Machado or Harper. Not getting them wasn't a mistake by our FO. We had to overpay to get a guy here in a non competing year. As your team gets more competitive, that changes slightly. We are at a point where we are about to be a destination for FA's trying to win. We have the money to spend to go along with the attractive young core to compete.

    If you want to cry about a mistake by our FO, cry about trading Tatis for Shields. That's a mistake. Missing FA's is on the FA's.

  9. #609
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    Quote Originally Posted by dabears34ft View Post
    I'm not saying they shouldn't have went after him. I'm not saying I'm mad they went after him. I'm saying that, when he reached a price they didn't feel comfortable spending, they should have and did stop pursuing him. Obviously he was plan A for our infield. None of us were sold on Anderson at SS or Moncada in general. But in the end we didn't overpay him, Anderson is proving pretty damn valuable at SS, as evidenced by our struggles without him, and Moncada has come into his own at the plate and at 3B. We would all be lying to ourselves if we said Today that we knew Moncada and Anderson were going to improve this much. Hell none of us thought Giolito was going to be putting up top 10 starting pitching numbers this year.

    Don't twist my words. My whole point in all of this is to stop ****ing crying about not signing Machado, as if it effected our future success in any way shape or form. As White Sox fans, we should be ecstatic at the improvement our young core is making, and the direction we are heading. Not dwelling on not getting Machado or Harper. Not getting them wasn't a mistake by our FO. We had to overpay to get a guy here in a non competing year. As your team gets more competitive, that changes slightly. We are at a point where we are about to be a destination for FA's trying to win. We have the money to spend to go along with the attractive young core to compete.

    If you want to cry about a mistake by our FO, cry about trading Tatis for Shields. That's a mistake. Missing FA's is on the FA's.
    No one is crying.........Machado should be the SS for this...****ing simple. They were played by the ****ing padres.....We would have a better chance of adding FA pitchers this off-season if he was on the team...Again SIMPLE.

  10. #610
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    You can spin it anyway you want....lol

  11. #611
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    Destination for FA????????????? Yup they are all lining up.....LOL.

  12. #612
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bainsy View Post
    So explain to the class, why the FO went hard after Machado...........Why they brought in his brother in law and his best friend? Because they obviously do not agree with your points.
    They made those moves maybe thinking they would be able to low-ball Machado into coming here? I have no idea but it's a thought I had.

  13. #613
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    2019 Chicago White Sox IGT

    Quote Originally Posted by Bainsy View Post
    No one is crying.........Machado should be the SS for this...****ing simple. They were played by the ****ing padres.....We would have a better chance of adding FA pitchers this off-season if he was on the team...Again SIMPLE.
    With about 30 million less money to spend in FA. Pretty much another off-season featuring big FA additions like Nova and Earvin ****ing Santana.
    Last edited by Pierzynski4Prez; 08-23-2019 at 03:23 PM.

  14. #614
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    Unlike some of the resident geniuses here, we all know who they are realistically the Machado to San Diego deal was a win-win. He got his money, we get to see Moncada play 3B and show what he can do. Everyone with a complaint about Rick Hahn and the front office is right, they have done more things wrong that right but none-the-less, here we are on the cusp of the best infield and maybe starting 8 on the Southside of Chicago in all of our lives.
    Moncada-Anderson-Madrigal-Vaughn plus Eloy and Luis Robert and maybe even Zack Collins have the potential to be fantastic for a long time. Whatever Machado is, and the opinions vary, he would have been an outsider coming in with a big paycheck.
    Chemistry matters, I'm more optimistic about the future of this team that at probably any other time in my life.
    1985 Bears
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  15. #615
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muttman73 View Post
    Unlike some of the resident geniuses here, we all know who they are realistically the Machado to San Diego deal was a win-win. He got his money, we get to see Moncada play 3B and show what he can do. Everyone with a complaint about Rick Hahn and the front office is right, they have done more things wrong that right but none-the-less, here we are on the cusp of the best infield and maybe starting 8 on the Southside of Chicago in all of our lives.
    Moncada-Anderson-Madrigal-Vaughn plus Eloy and Luis Robert and maybe even Zack Collins have the potential to be fantastic for a long time. Whatever Machado is, and the opinions vary, he would have been an outsider coming in with a big paycheck.
    Chemistry matters, I'm more optimistic about the future of this team that at probably any other time in my life.
    Dont have to lock players into positions. Not like being at 2nd would have hindered his offensive outbreak

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