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  1. #1201
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    Aug 2006
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    912
    Quote Originally Posted by statquo View Post
    I dunno they aren't in any rush to trade any of the big 4 for pitching. Next year will be a development year with some of the pitchers like Pearson getting their first looks. 2021 will be the year where we start getting serious I think. A top 5 pick this year will help big time.
    So you're the GM of the other team and Shatkins comes calling. "Hi, we would like to trade you for a TORP with control." Where do you think that GM will begin with his asking price?

  2. #1202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderdan22 View Post
    Here is the problem you fail to see. Because the Jays failed to start the rebuild when it should have started mid 2017 season, there is too much of a gap between the big four the have now, the arrival of the top pitching prospects, and the next wave of positional players. Shapiro even admits in his interview that he knows the rebuild should have started sooner but didn't because he wanted to try and give the fans another winning season and even went beyond the fans expectations when many thought the rebuild should have started. He has also said time and time again that he doesn't make decisions based on what will be popular or what the fans will want. Shatkins can't have it both ways.

    Yes, the big four are exciting. I'm excited to see what they are going to do. The organization has done a nice job bringing them forward. However, if the plan on competing sooner or later, they will more than likely be forced to deal one or two of them to fill in the gaps that Shatkins discussed. The need for top pitching will be costly. They will have to drastically empty the system to acquire it via trade. So far in my opinion, I think the Jays have not done well in trades under the Shatkin regime overall. They certainly are not going to make huge splashes in free agency based on history of players not wanting to come to Canada.

    Had the started the rebuild when it should have, the gaps would be less. So really, we will have four really good players, one or two of which may have to be dealt to get talent to fill the gaps or an empty farm. If not we will have four really good players...and what else?
    It's a problem that he's identified so I assume he's going to go out and fix it? One of the fan questions asked him directly if starting pitching is the priority and he said yes.

    Atkins won't have to deal any of the 4 positional players we have right now. They're the literal core of the team moving forward. Unlike previous years we actually have a huge bounty of prospects still coming up in the minors. Unfortunately if you want to deal for an ace or a TORP with years of control then Pearson would almost certainly have to be involved. That doesn't mean they can't deal for a #3 type pitcher like Marcus Stroman and pick a couple of the prospects they have in the pool. If they want an ace they're going to have to spend money and Shapiro seems to be very wary of that in the interview. Talking about how it's always such a risk signing pitchers in free agency. Do I expect them to go out and get Gerrit Cole? No, but it's my dream.

    Atkins has actually fared pretty well in his trades. It's just that the majority of players he's had to deal away sucked and all but 2 or 3 trades were meant to just fill space for a year or two while all the crap contracts ran out. I'm no fan of Grichuk but the fact that Dominic Leone and Conner Greene was the price for him is pretty good. Drew Hutchison became Liriano, McGuire then eventually Teoscar. The Stroman trade is what will make him or break him in my book though. Stroman was the only player he's dealt where there was no bad contract looming and he was playing at a high level. We just have to wait and see if SWR is the real deal. Kay is already looking decent in a SSS and he's not even the main piece.

    If the rebuild started when it should've we would've had Jack Flaherty and that's about it. It definitely would've been a huge boost but it's not like any of our other players were playing well in 2017. All of our tradable players sucked balls for years. Next year I think we'll have 3 pitchers in the rotation ready to go in Pearson, Kay and Thornton. Ideally your 3/4/5 unless Pearson dominates. This off-season is headlined by 2 aces then second tier names like Wood and Strasburg. Even if they get a 2nd tier guy like Wood or Strasburg then that's a huge step in the right direction especially if guys like Manoah, Kloffenstein and SWR all trend in the right direction. 2 of those 3 pitchers have TORP material already and 2021 could very well be the year when we start to see them.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  3. #1203
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    Sep 2019
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  4. #1204
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    6,154
    I’d love to see us sign 3 sp (say 13-15m range) . Push shoemaker/borucki/Thornton/Kay to do 4/5/6/7 options with the 6 and 7 in the pen. Pearson as number 8. With injuries , everyone will get their innings in.
    That significantly improves the rotation and helps the bullpen. For 45m.

    Sign Abreu type for 1b-say another 15m.

    Bo
    Biggio
    Vlad
    Gurriel
    Abreu
    Grichuk
    Jansen
    Teoscar/fisher/Alford 8/9 as cf/dh

    I don’t think that is too much to ask

  5. #1205
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    Is Shoemaker even signed beyond this season?
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Facts can be hypothetical.

  6. #1206
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    Jun 2010
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    North Shore
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    9,876
    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Is Shoemaker even signed beyond this season?
    Team option I believe

  7. #1207
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
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    25,596
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderdan22 View Post
    Here is the problem you fail to see. Because the Jays failed to start the rebuild when it should have started mid 2017 season, there is too much of a gap between the big four the have now, the arrival of the top pitching prospects, and the next wave of positional players. Shapiro even admits in his interview that he knows the rebuild should have started sooner but didn't because he wanted to try and give the fans another winning season and even went beyond the fans expectations when many thought the rebuild should have started. He has also said time and time again that he doesn't make decisions based on what will be popular or what the fans will want. Shatkins can't have it both ways.

    Yes, the big four are exciting. I'm excited to see what they are going to do. The organization has done a nice job bringing them forward. However, if the plan on competing sooner or later, they will more than likely be forced to deal one or two of them to fill in the gaps that Shatkins discussed. The need for top pitching will be costly. They will have to drastically empty the system to acquire it via trade. So far in my opinion, I think the Jays have not done well in trades under the Shatkin regime overall. They certainly are not going to make huge splashes in free agency based on history of players not wanting to come to Canada.

    Had the started the rebuild when it should have, the gaps would be less. So really, we will have four really good players, one or two of which may have to be dealt to get talent to fill the gaps or an empty farm. If not we will have four really good players...and what else?
    I think people get way to caught up in this. These guys are kids. There is tons of time to fill in the roster around that core 4.

    Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

  8. #1208
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    Feb 2009
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    9,804
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    I think people get way to caught up in this. These guys are kids. There is tons of time to fill in the roster around that core 4.

    Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
    But not tons of time to capitalize on their cheap years. NHL and mlb have very much become leagues where you spend while your core is young because it’s a lot harder to supplement when your best guys are getting paid what their owed.

  9. #1209
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    Jan 2007
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    But there’s still lots of time. There’s no way they’re trading one of those 4 core guys at this point.

    If you’re expecting them to go out and get a torp, you’re going to be sorely disappointed this off season. Maybe that’s where some of the negativity comes from, some unrealistic expectations. They’re going to be looking for bounce backs, under achievers and innings eaters. Guys that could be had for packages around Hernandez or Alford or someone else like that.

  10. #1210
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    But there’s still lots of time. There’s no way they’re trading one of those 4 core guys at this point.

    If you’re expecting them to go out and get a torp, you’re going to be sorely disappointed this off season. Maybe that’s where some of the negativity comes from, some unrealistic expectations. They’re going to be looking for bounce backs, under achievers and innings eaters. Guys that could be had for packages around Hernandez or Alford or someone else like that.
    Have you watched the latest interview with Shapiro? It gives me the vibe that they’re going to try and add some actual starting pitching to help bridge the gap between our young core and the pitching prospects who haven’t made it yet. Obviously names like Cole and MadBum are wishful thinking but I think they’re going to target starting pitchers with the intent of keeping them for more than a year.

  11. #1211
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    Have you watched the latest interview with Shapiro? It gives me the vibe that they’re going to try and add some actual starting pitching to help bridge the gap between our young core and the pitching prospects who haven’t made it yet. Obviously names like Cole and MadBum are wishful thinking but I think they’re going to target starting pitchers with the intent of keeping them for more than a year.
    Yeah, but I think those are going to be the guys one tier above a Jaime Garcia. Guys who will top out as a number three in a good rotation at best.

  12. #1212
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    Feb 2009
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    9,804
    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    But there’s still lots of time. There’s no way they’re trading one of those 4 core guys at this point.

    If you’re expecting them to go out and get a torp, you’re going to be sorely disappointed this off season. Maybe that’s where some of the negativity comes from, some unrealistic expectations. They’re going to be looking for bounce backs, under achievers and innings eaters. Guys that could be had for packages around Hernandez or Alford or someone else like that.
    I don’t expect a torp. And that’s the problem.

  13. #1213
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    I don’t expect a torp. And that’s the problem.
    Not really. If one wanted to come right now then sure. But there's no point in overpaying yet.

  14. #1214
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_noodles View Post
    Not really. If one wanted to come right now then sure. But there's no point in overpaying yet.
    Next years FA class of pitchers is reason enough to spend now if you ask me. Some of the big names next offseason are Quintana and Arrieta.

  15. #1215
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    Jan 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    But not tons of time to capitalize on their cheap years. NHL and mlb have very much become leagues where you spend while your core is young because it’s a lot harder to supplement when your best guys are getting paid what their owed.
    If you are building internally then the next wave is maturing as your core exits its prime, and those guys are not yet being paid what they are worth.

    The way you are advocating seems *** backward to me. If you are overpaying guys to supplement your core than you cant afford to pay your core guys when the time comes.

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    Last edited by Jamiecballer; 09-19-2019 at 03:35 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by nycericanguy View Post
    well unfortunately it looks like you were right about Bargs...

    but hopefully we can use his expiring, if not at least we unloaded Novak's deal...

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