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Thread: 2019 Season

  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    But your arguement was woodruff and burnes with some middle guys like Davies and Anderson and well find a 5th guy. I mean, that's basically what you're asking for if you bring in an innings eater as a 5th guy.
    Correct, that's exactly what I'm asking for. I think it makes more sense to go in with the approach of having a few solid guys, a few guys with ace potential and roll the dice that way than it does to go out and overpay for a free agent pitcher.

    The recent history of free agent arms is not good and the Brewers can't afford to make a mistake there.

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by twellner9 View Post
    Correct, that's exactly what I'm asking for. I think it makes more sense to go in with the approach of having a few solid guys, a few guys with ace potential and roll the dice that way than it does to go out and overpay for a free agent pitcher.

    The recent history of free agent arms is not good and the Brewers can't afford to make a mistake there.
    Brewers are going to have to find a 2B, 3B, C. Brewers have some nice C prospects in the system. 3B not so much. Not much on market either. Maybe Galvis can play 2B and move Hiura to 1B if Thames isn't back. Hiura is inept at 2B. He is pretty horrible there. Throwing and just fielding in general.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by gopackgo87 View Post
    Brewers are going to have to find a 2B, 3B, C. Brewers have some nice C prospects in the system. 3B not so much. Not much on market either. Maybe Galvis can play 2B and move Hiura to 1B if Thames isn't back. Hiura is inept at 2B. He is pretty horrible there. Throwing and just fielding in general.
    I also think they're going to need to move Braun. Braun is still the likely first basemen next season IMO. Gotta hope Huira gets better. Figure we hope for a bounce back from Shaw to play 3B. Catcher to me is the big question mark along with bullpen.

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by twellner9 View Post
    I also think they're going to need to move Braun. Braun is still the likely first basemen next season IMO. Gotta hope Huira gets better. Figure we hope for a bounce back from Shaw to play 3B. Catcher to me is the big question mark along with bullpen.
    I know alot of people will disagree, but there's actually an arguement that 1st base defense is more important than 2nd base. It's a little easier to play passable defense at 1st than 2nd, but a great defender at 1st could actually make a bigger impact than alot of people think. Being able to dig out bad throws helps everyone be better.

    At 2nd bad plays are more noticeable, but plays in general happen at 1st alot more. I agree Braun probably plays more first next year, as Grisham has very likely earned starts in left, but I'm not sure he's ever a full time 1B. He does have some work to do before he can play a decent 1B.

    I just dont think the answer for hiura is 1st. Not a great frame and would still be plagued by the same issues he has at 2nd. I know Grisham is around, but LF might be the next best choice for hiura to be honest.

    But I agree, catcher is the real weak spot in the org. I think a bounce back to at least a mediocre player is in order for shaw. So he can play 1st or 3rd depending on who's brought back.
    Last edited by crewfan13; 08-27-2019 at 10:19 AM.

  5. #185
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    Not sure I agree with needing bullpen help. Knebel and Hader will anchor next year. That's pretty good. Claudio and Guerra can both be back at a reasonable cost and they're both solid guys. Then we have a group of guys like Devin Williams, Bobby Wahl, Ray black, Jake Faria and depending on rotation, houser and Peralta. Add in some minor leaguers like drew Rasmussen and maybe even Phil bickford, and I think the pen is in a decent spot. I'm much more comfortable with that group than I am with the starting group, especially if a decent rotation can push a guy like houser to the pen.

    I'm also not entirely out in Jay Jackson. His numbers look back but he's been scoreless in 10 of his 15 outings and has good strikeout numbers. He's had 2 bad blowups, which have really tanked his numbers. But even he's a guy I'm okay with competing for the last spot in the pen.

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    Not sure I agree with needing bullpen help. Knebel and Hader will anchor next year. That's pretty good. Claudio and Guerra can both be back at a reasonable cost and they're both solid guys. Then we have a group of guys like Devin Williams, Bobby Wahl, Ray black, Jake Faria and depending on rotation, houser and Peralta. Add in some minor leaguers like drew Rasmussen and maybe even Phil bickford, and I think the pen is in a decent spot. I'm much more comfortable with that group than I am with the starting group, especially if a decent rotation can push a guy like houser to the pen.

    I'm also not entirely out in Jay Jackson. His numbers look back but he's been scoreless in 10 of his 15 outings and has good strikeout numbers. He's had 2 bad blowups, which have really tanked his numbers. But even he's a guy I'm okay with competing for the last spot in the pen.
    You know me, I'm always looking for bullpen help. Can't ever have enough. Love to see us go get Betances this off-season. I don't think we can assume Knebel is back to the same level and Hader isn't/shouldn't be a closer. I'd rather spend to get 3 elite relievers than 1 decent starter

    I think we also need to seriously consider our future at shortstop. Arcia isn't good. Even with his plus defense his offense just hasn't shown up. Turang is still a ways away from being MLB ready, so if we want to compete next year I think we should look for an upgrade. Not much available in terms of shortstop help this off-season is an issue though.

  7. #187
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    If betances proves he's healthy in September and into October, he's going to get a monster contract as well. Look at recent top flight releivers like davis, melancon, britton, Chapman, kimbrel and other top guys, you're looking at $13-$17 mill per year. Betances has been about that good when healthy. Even on the low end with guys like ottavino, you're looking at $9-10 mill per year.

    The difference in price between top flight relief help and tip flight starting help is not that big any more. You're definitely not getting 3 releivers for the price of 1 starter unless it's one top fought reliever and two wild cards. Maybe you can get 2 really good releivers for the price of the top starter, but we likely aren't in the market for that guy anyways.

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    If betances proves he's healthy in September and into October, he's going to get a monster contract as well. Look at recent top flight releivers like davis, melancon, britton, Chapman, kimbrel and other top guys, you're looking at $13-$17 mill per year. Betances has been about that good when healthy. Even on the low end with guys like ottavino, you're looking at $9-10 mill per year.

    The difference in price between top flight relief help and tip flight starting help is not that big any more. You're definitely not getting 3 releivers for the price of 1 starter unless it's one top fought reliever and two wild cards. Maybe you can get 2 really good releivers for the price of the top starter, but we likely aren't in the market for that guy anyways.
    On Hiura going to 1B it wouldn't really be much of a downgrade from Thames. He sucks defensively. It isn't perfect but I think with 2B being on of the few decent FA markets for an upgrade, I could see an Iglesias type signing for like 2-16. I like Feliciano in the system the best at C he has upside and I think Henry is a good offensive guy but like the SPs are both a couple years away likely. Might have to sign a stop gap like Yan gomes/Luc with Pina as backup and be more of a split again. SP needs some work but not sure where help will come from. Not going to overpay guys but going to probably sign some vet types for cheap and hope for a hit again.

    I am with you on pen crew. I think lot of internal options for improvement.

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    If betances proves he's healthy in September and into October, he's going to get a monster contract as well. Look at recent top flight releivers like davis, melancon, britton, Chapman, kimbrel and other top guys, you're looking at $13-$17 mill per year. Betances has been about that good when healthy. Even on the low end with guys like ottavino, you're looking at $9-10 mill per year.

    The difference in price between top flight relief help and tip flight starting help is not that big any more. You're definitely not getting 3 releivers for the price of 1 starter unless it's one top fought reliever and two wild cards. Maybe you can get 2 really good releivers for the price of the top starter, but we likely aren't in the market for that guy anyways.
    I don't see Betances getting that much. I think he's much more likely to fetch around $9-10M. Anything more than that and you're right, its a hard pass.

    My point is that I'd much rather go out and get a reliever for around $10M than a starter for $25-30M. Figure we already have 2 affordable relievers in the system so its not like we need to commit the full $30M to relief.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by twellner9 View Post
    I don't see Betances getting that much. I think he's much more likely to fetch around $9-10M. Anything more than that and you're right, its a hard pass.

    My point is that I'd much rather go out and get a reliever for around $10M than a starter for $25-30M. Figure we already have 2 affordable relievers in the system so its not like we need to commit the full $30M to relief.
    What starter is getting 25-30 million? Cole and who else? Wheeler and Strasburg (potentially) have injury risks. SP is much better in 2020-21 when Brewers should have some young arms close to coming up...I think next year will be a bit of a down year for MKE but could be back on upswing after...

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by gopackgo87 View Post
    On Hiura going to 1B it wouldn't really be much of a downgrade from Thames. He sucks defensively. It isn't perfect but I think with 2B being on of the few decent FA markets for an upgrade, I could see an Iglesias type signing for like 2-16. I like Feliciano in the system the best at C he has upside and I think Henry is a good offensive guy but like the SPs are both a couple years away likely. Might have to sign a stop gap like Yan gomes/Luc with Pina as backup and be more of a split again. SP needs some work but not sure where help will come from. Not going to overpay guys but going to probably sign some vet types for cheap and hope for a hit again.

    I am with you on pen crew. I think lot of internal options for improvement.
    I guess my point on that is you're not really sokving the problem by shifting him to first. Why not just get a solid defensive 1B in that case instead of a bat-less Iglesias type? And there's a real chance hiura is worse at first than thames.
    Last edited by crewfan13; 08-27-2019 at 04:12 PM.

  12. #192
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    I would give Huira 1 more year at second he really has been there for a couple years as a permanent 2B. I feel like he has decent instincts and reactions but rushes things and make way to many errors.

    I wonder about finding a trade for Braun, I think he might except something to Cali or Florida. Would Braun and Arcia for Andrelton Simmons and a decent prospect make sense, Braun and Simmons have similar expiring deals. I really don't mind bringing back Thames on his player option if Braun isn't going to play a ton of 1st. There really isn't much on the 1st base market (Moreland and Smoak).

    If we spend money on the free agent market I would really hope we could find a consistant starter. If Kuechel is out of our price range Odirizzi, Roark, Hamels, maybe Porcello (doubtful) would all be guys that wouldn't break the bank and add stability to the rotation. I then get a couple of bullpen arms that don't break the bank maybe Cishek, Collin McHugh, or some starters to turn into relievers like Alex Wood.

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by jay87shot View Post
    I would give Huira 1 more year at second he really has been there for a couple years as a permanent 2B. I feel like he has decent instincts and reactions but rushes things and make way to many errors.

    I wonder about finding a trade for Braun, I think he might except something to Cali or Florida. Would Braun and Arcia for Andrelton Simmons and a decent prospect make sense, Braun and Simmons have similar expiring deals. I really don't mind bringing back Thames on his player option if Braun isn't going to play a ton of 1st. There really isn't much on the 1st base market (Moreland and Smoak).

    If we spend money on the free agent market I would really hope we could find a consistant starter. If Kuechel is out of our price range Odirizzi, Roark, Hamels, maybe Porcello (doubtful) would all be guys that wouldn't break the bank and add stability to the rotation. I then get a couple of bullpen arms that don't break the bank maybe Cishek, Collin McHugh, or some starters to turn into relievers like Alex Wood.
    That's my point with 1B. There really aren't options on the market of value while there are some 2B on the market. Hiura to 1B and sign an Iglesias, Scooter reunion?, or something like that where shouldn't break the bank but 8 mill or so per on a 2 year deal for Iglesias I think would get it done. Hiura is a great offensive talent. I think if Braun is in MKE then he would be playing some 1B no doubt and Hiura probably then sticks to 2B for anoyher year, but if a deal can be worked out ok. Then Hiura time IMO but wouldn't mind Thames back. He has been pretty good offensively this year.

    That's the SPs I would expect the Brewers to go after Roark, Odorizzi. I really think the pen could be good if things fall right like 2018 with return of Knebel, Wahl. Brewers guys on team now are fine 6th inning types. Will help to have late inning options back.

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by jay87shot View Post
    I would give Huira 1 more year at second he really has been there for a couple years as a permanent 2B. I feel like he has decent instincts and reactions but rushes things and make way to many errors.

    I wonder about finding a trade for Braun, I think he might except something to Cali or Florida. Would Braun and Arcia for Andrelton Simmons and a decent prospect make sense, Braun and Simmons have similar expiring deals. I really don't mind bringing back Thames on his player option if Braun isn't going to play a ton of 1st. There really isn't much on the 1st base market (Moreland and Smoak).

    If we spend money on the free agent market I would really hope we could find a consistant starter. If Kuechel is out of our price range Odirizzi, Roark, Hamels, maybe Porcello (doubtful) would all be guys that wouldn't break the bank and add stability to the rotation. I then get a couple of bullpen arms that don't break the bank maybe Cishek, Collin McHugh, or some starters to turn into relievers like Alex Wood.
    I don't see why we'd look to trade Braun unless we're trying to cut payroll. We need his bat. He's been basically as good offensively as Yelich since the All-Star break. Its a huge reason why I complain so much about Braun getting off days. Not only do I believe it does no good, but its clear Braun is a far better hitter when he's getting regular at bats. Notice how each of the last two seasons he started to turn things around when he was forced into more regular playing time.

    I don't understand the "maintenance" days attitude. Does that actually do him any good? If he's hurt and he needs to sit I'm fine with that, but I don't see how giving a guy a day off actually helps, and its costing us games.

  15. #195
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    I don't quite understand the way CC is managing the starting rotation this season. I get that the analytics say that the third time through the order guys tend to get hit more, but he doesn't even let them try and our bullpen has been awful.

    The new school approach is to basically limit starters to around 100 pitches, but is there any evidence that's actually easier on their arms? Is going for 120-130 pitches if you're feeling it really that bad? It doesn't seem like the change has lowered the rate of UCL injury.

    I was listening to Dr. James Andrews talk about the UCL and his expert opinion was that throwing a lot of pitches really had no affect on the elbow, but rather it was a repetitive stress injury (i.e. not getting enough rest between starts and not taking a break from throwing in the off-season). In his opinion most elbow injuries actually sprung from the high school days, because unlike in the past when athletes played 3 sports players now stick to the same sport year round, meaning their arm never gets a break and develops damage. But I have seen zero evidence that limiting pitch counts in a game does any benefit to the pitcher.

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