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Thread: Ilhan Omar

  1. #3136
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    It can be unfair as smaller and under represented groups can have their needs/wants repetitively overlooked and ignored by the majority voting population.

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    What smaller and under represented groups and how does the current system address them?

    You could divide this country into thousands of different things from race/sex/religion/location/amount of land/favorite color/economic policy thoughts....

    The issue is it is fair because it doesn't give special treatment to ANY group in that manner. Every individual person counts the same.

  2. #3137
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    What smaller and under represented groups and how does the current system address them?

    You could divide this country into thousands of different things from race/sex/religion/location/amount of land/favorite color/economic policy thoughts....

    The issue is it is fair because it doesn't give special treatment to ANY group in that manner. Every individual person counts the same.
    Yes, every individual person counting the same isnt necessarily the right way to go about things. Rural communities can easily be under represented in voting. If our votes kept on addressing urban issues and ignoring rural ones then I could see how one to one voting could put certain demographics at natural disadvantages.

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  3. #3138
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    So instead we put city dwellers, minorities, immigrants, lgbtq, and poor people at a natural disadvantage.......ok

    Rural concerns don't outweigh the concerns of the entire collective. Choosing to live a rural lifestyle shouldn't entitle you to higher power
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  4. #3139
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Yes, every individual person counting the same isnt necessarily the right way to go about things. Rural communities can easily be under represented in voting. If our votes kept on addressing urban issues and ignoring rural ones then I could see how one to one voting could put certain demographics at natural disadvantages.

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    What do you think it means if rural is less represented? What if black people are? What if Christians are? What about Muslim? Why does one matter more than another?

    If our votes are shifted to weight some more than others then those issues could end up with more weight than the country as a whole would want. Do we want the rest of the country to be more rural, that's the under representation? I don't think that necessarily works but you want the representation to reflect it as if it was so?

    I can see how some groups can be disadvantaged. Everyone getting a single vote that is valued the same across the board means they all are represented equally, with one vote. Trying to equalize the vote for a bunch of identities doesn't make a lot of sense imo. You have now shifted this into a us vs them.

  5. #3140
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    What do you think it means if rural is less represented? What if black people are? What if Christians are? What about Muslim? Why does one matter more than another?

    If our votes are shifted to weight some more than others then those issues could end up with more weight than the country as a whole would want. Do we want the rest of the country to be more rural, that's the under representation? I don't think that necessarily works but you want the representation to reflect it as if it was so?

    I can see how some groups can be disadvantaged. Everyone getting a single vote that is valued the same across the board means they all are represented equally, with one vote. Trying to equalize the vote for a bunch of identities doesn't make a lot of sense imo. You have now shifted this into a us vs them.
    If rural is less represented it means they are more likely to not have their needs met. One does not matter more than the other, which is probably the exact reason we want to counter the natural advantage which comes with numbers.

    I can see why as a nation we do not want rural concerns to go unheard, as it is these very areas which provide some of the most important baseline aspects that allow our societies to function the way they do. It is our nation's best interest to have our rural industries doing well.

    I could support tilting the table in favor of rural the same way I support titling the table in favor of economically struggling inner city.

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    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  6. #3141
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    If rural is less represented it means they are more likely to not have their needs met. One does not matter more than the other, which is probably the exact reason we want to counter the natural advantage which comes with numbers.

    I can see why as a nation we do not want rural concerns to go unheard, as it is these very areas which provide some of the most important baseline aspects that allow our societies to function the way they do. It is our nation's best interest to have our rural industries doing well.

    I could support tilting the table in favor of rural the same way I support titling the table in favor of economically struggling inner city.

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    The obvious issue you aren't addressing is how do you decide WHICH ones and HOW to weight it if at the end you acknowledge other areas matter too. You didn't answer about the many other ways you can break people up and they may be under represented either because you can't be consistent once you start doing this you are picking and choosing who matters most (again creating us vs them).

    A lot of people could support tilting the table a lot of ways I bet. Why not give everyone equal voice in their vote instead trying to start weight different peoples votes due to our perceived level of under representation in group form?

  7. #3142
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    If you tilt the table in flavor of the inner cities., Tucker Carlson will have the south raising again in a heart-beat.
    WE STILL KNOW WHERE THE PITCHFORKS ARE:Beau of the Fifth Column, you tube.

  8. #3143
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    The obvious issue you aren't addressing is how do you decide WHICH ones and HOW to weight it if at the end you acknowledge other areas matter too. You didn't answer about the many other ways you can break people up and they may be under represented either because you can't be consistent once you start doing this you are picking and choosing who matters most (again creating us vs them).

    A lot of people could support tilting the table a lot of ways I bet. Why not give everyone equal voice in their vote instead trying to start weight different peoples votes due to our perceived level of under representation in group form?
    Well which and how is a very complex and nuanced matter, but so is running govt, so I guess thats a part of it right?

    We already pick and choose who matters, that's never gonna change. This is just an instance where I could see how picking and choosing this demographic could be in the best interest of our nation.



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    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  9. #3144
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    If you tilt the table in flavor of the inner cities., Tucker Carlson will have the south raising again in a heart-beat.
    lol, I think hes been fighting that fight since the 90's..

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  10. #3145
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    Well which and how is a very complex and nuanced matter, but so is running govt, so I guess thats a part of it right?

    We already pick and choose who matters, that's never gonna change. This is just an instance where I could see how picking and choosing this demographic could be in the best interest of our nation.



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    You didn't actually argue against it you just said "well we just have to accept us vs them picking and choosing".

    That isn't fairness to me (in fact it is an approach extremists often take pushing their own groups over others). You thinking this one makes sense could be ignoring the many other groups it under represents or disadvantages. You are creating unfair situations by doing so often.

  11. #3146
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    The obvious issue you aren't addressing is how do you decide WHICH ones and HOW to weight it if at the end you acknowledge other areas matter too. You didn't answer about the many other ways you can break people up and they may be under represented either because you can't be consistent once you start doing this you are picking and choosing who matters most (again creating us vs them).

    A lot of people could support tilting the table a lot of ways I bet. Why not give everyone equal voice in their vote instead trying to start weight different peoples votes due to our perceived level of under representation in group form?
    If I'm not mistaken, around 35% of the US population lives in a state bordering the Atlantic, yet despite the issues some have with the electoral college those same state represent over 40% of the electoral votes....add states on the Gulf of Mexico even excluding Texas and that's enough to win the election.....even if the other 2/3rds of states vote the other way.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  12. #3147
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    You didn't actually argue against it you just said "well we just have to accept us vs them picking and choosing".

    That isn't fairness to me (in fact it is an approach extremists often take pushing their own groups over others). You thinking this one makes sense could be ignoring the many other groups it under represents or disadvantages. You are creating unfair situations by doing so often.
    We have to accept it because the fact that govt allocates funds and influence means by definition they always have what people will perceive an "us vs them" stance. That's just the nature of govt.

    To me it can be fairness, because if we never took this sort of approach we wouldnt be this close to racial equality as we are now. I dont thinking propping up a naturally disadvantaged demographic is in of itself wrong.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    RAIDERS, SHARKS, WARRIORS

    "i don't believe in mysteries but still i pray for my sister, when speaking to the higher power that listens, to the lifeless vision of freedom everytime we're imprisoned, to the righteous victims of people of a higher position" - planet asia, old timer thoughts

    "God is Universal he is the Ruler Universal" - gangstarr (rip guru), robbin hood theory

    "don't gain the world and lose your soul, wisdom is better than silver and gold" - bob marley, zion train

  13. #3148
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    We have to accept it because the fact that govt allocates funds and influence means by definition they always have what people will perceive an "us vs them" stance. That's just the nature of govt.

    To me it can be fairness, because if we never took this sort of approach we wouldnt be this close to racial equality as we are now. I dont thinking propping up a naturally disadvantaged demographic is in of itself wrong.

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    We don't have to accept them doing so and act like sheep when there are better options, we can speak up.

    It could be but in the specific rural one you mentioned it isn't or at least hasn't been explained (I agree on racial issues but they have a different history than this). Why is that needed and what about say racial issues if a certain demographic isn't as represented in rural areas? What about many other identities listed? Why are they now being disadvantaged to focus on rural? That isn't a push for racial equality to me...
    Last edited by mngopher35; 08-02-2020 at 09:27 PM.

  14. #3149
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    If I'm not mistaken, around 35% of the US population lives in a state bordering the Atlantic, yet despite the issues some have with the electoral college those same state represent over 40% of the electoral votes....add states on the Gulf of Mexico even excluding Texas and that's enough to win the election.....even if the other 2/3rds of states vote the other way.
    So you're saying more people equals more voting power?!?

    PSD: where the moderators consistently cave to crybaby tattletales and it's a lot safer to be openly racist, hateful, and ignorant than to be a little rude to the racist, hateful, and ignorant

  15. #3150
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastynice View Post
    We have to accept it because the fact that govt allocates funds and influence means by definition they always have what people will perceive an "us vs them" stance. That's just the nature of govt.

    To me it can be fairness, because if we never took this sort of approach we wouldnt be this close to racial equality as we are now. I dont thinking propping up a naturally disadvantaged demographic is in of itself wrong.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    We don't have to accept ****.

    PSD: where the moderators consistently cave to crybaby tattletales and it's a lot safer to be openly racist, hateful, and ignorant than to be a little rude to the racist, hateful, and ignorant

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