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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1908_Cubs View Post
    Why block a Flyers prospect for Staal or Hayes? Hayes is likely to be overpaid on the market and Staal is a 2-3 year pact for a player we will likely be able to internally replace in 1-2 years. On a one year deal, sure, but there's little reason for him to take a one year deal. The team will likely have Couts, Patrick, Frost, Voro, Rubustov all ready for minutes next year alone, at some juncture. Within another year or two we could add our newest draft pick (if it's a center), and O'Brien perhaps. And that still allows for the trade market.

    In the end, Staal and Hayes are not options I'm very interested in. Let's see what we have already and then check the trade market. Realistically, a 3C of Frost or Patrick sounds like a good thing next year and we can make that happen internally. For free.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
    unless we sign sstaal to a 1 year deal. I would be on that train and then we can have g on wing, patrick on 3c and staal on 2c for another year. Unless frost plays 3c and we sign a wing in place of simmonds (or solve that 3rd line rw with draft or the simmonds trade)

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3iverson3 View Post
    unless we sign sstaal to a 1 year deal. I would be on that train and then we can have g on wing, patrick on 3c and staal on 2c for another year. Unless frost plays 3c and we sign a wing in place of simmonds (or solve that 3rd line rw with draft or the simmonds trade)
    Frost isn't a very big guy. I'm a fan of bigger centers for defensive reasons. Frost can be a winger. Fill your middle with big guys that can skate and play shutdown defense.

  3. #63
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    Excerpt from an article by a rangers beat writer dissecting the possible contract for hayes.

    At any rate, Hayes receiving 7.5 to 8.5 percent of the Rangers salary cap wouldnít be an unfair ask on his part. Using $83 million as a midpoint, 7.5 percent would be $6.225 million and 8.5 percent would be $7.055 million.

  4. #64
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    I think this offseason we as a fan base need to be prepared to have more money spent. Both via trade and free agency.

    I have no idea what the market will look like. Whether panarin or stone will break 10 million AAV or not. No idea where these guys will be interested in playing.

    I do know however hayes is having a career year at 26 years old during his contract year. I'm not too excited to pay him like a 70 pt guy. I think you're better off trying to pry a teams teuvo teravainen, or elias lindholm away from them than to overpay for a middle six center having a contract year.

    At the right price I wouldnt be completely opposed to a hayes contraxt, but if the difference between hayes and panarin is 2 million a year and an extra year, I'd likely lean towards the guy I KNOW is a pt/game guy (artemi)

  5. #65
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    Why block a Flyers prospect for Staal or Hayes? Hayes is likely to be overpaid on the market and Staal is a 2-3 year pact for a player we will likely be able to internally replace in 1-2 years. On a one year deal, sure, but there's little reason for him to take a one year deal. The team will likely have Couts, Patrick, Frost, Voro, Rubustov all ready for minutes next year alone, at some juncture. Within another year or two we could add our newest draft pick (if it's a center), and O'Brien perhaps. And that still allows for the trade market.

    In the end, Staal and Hayes are not options I'm very interested in. Let's see what we have already and then check the trade market. Realistically, a 3C of Frost or Patrick sounds like a good thing next year and we can make that happen internally. For free.
    A: who? which flyers prospects is going to come in and score 50+ points as a 3rd line center?
    B: i've heard that **** for the last 5 years. 2 years ago you people were drooling over what could have been in place this year, and guess what? if you keep that same ****ing loser mentality, then 2 years from now, you'll still be waiting for something to come and save you two more ****ing years later.
    C: patrick is inconsistent; frost's best position is on the wing; vorobyev is a replacement level player; rubstov is already injured.
    D: i'll gladly pay you tuesday for a hamburger today.
    E: JOB has 4 points in 18 games at providence. he's 2 years away from being 2 years away.
    F: that would have been viable 3 years ago, 2 years ago, but now: nah. "what we have" is what got out coach and GM fired. deservedly.
    G: opportunity cost is real, and it's meaningful.


    this organization needs to stop playing these ****ing shadow games and just put the best ****ing roster that we can afford on the ****ing ice next year.
    Frost isn't a very big guy. I'm a fan of bigger centers for defensive reasons. Frost can be a winger. Fill your middle with big guys that can skate and play shutdown defense.
    same.
    Last edited by steagles; 02-04-2019 at 07:34 PM.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by steagles View Post
    A: who? which flyers prospects is going to come in and score 50+ points as a 3rd line center?
    B: i've heard that **** for the last 5 years. 2 years ago you people were drooling over what could have been in place this year, and guess what? if you keep that same ****ing loser mentality, then 2 years from now, you'll still be waiting for something to come and save you two more ****ing years later.
    C: patrick is inconsistent; frost's best position is on the wing; vorobyev is a replacement level player; rubstov is already injured.
    D: i'll gladly pay you tuesday for a hamburger today.
    E: JOB has 4 points in 18 games at providence. he's 2 years away from being 2 years away.
    F: that would have been viable 3 years ago, 2 years ago, but now: nah. "what we have" is what got out coach and GM fired. deservedly.
    G: opportunity cost is real, and it's meaningful.


    this organization needs to stop playing these ****ing shadow games and just put the best ****ing roster that we can afford on the ****ing ice next year. same.
    There's no debating Jordan Staal with you. I wont, it's stupid. It's yelling at a wall. I had a whole post typed out about it. Then I deleted it. It'll fall on deaf ears. Same goes for Morgan Frost on the wing. I don't buy this narrative you've constructed that somehow he's so much better on the wing. I think he'll put up, especially young, nearly identical numbers at center or at the wing, IMO. He's got the talent to do both.

    The team is going to make massive mistakes if they end up paying for delcining (Jordan Staal has 5 goals, 11 points in 29 games. He's not a 50+ player...he's done that one time in his life, and now he's on he wrong side of 30 and on pace for a whopping 33 points, and has been injured) forwards through FA who will get 3-4 year deals due to his name. It's how you firmly entrench yourself as a 2nd tier team. It's the exact gameplan the Minnesota Wild followed under Fletcher before. Spend in FA, piddle away the minor league system, and enter your name on the "always the bridesmaid, never a brides" ticket.

    There's no debating with you. I think you're entirely wrong here. I sincerely hope the team doesn't prove me right. I fear they're going to. And then in 5 years, it'll be me who's playing the steagles "I told you game" as Fletcher won't have learned from his previous mistakes. Free agency is a cesspool of bad ideas. You pay for past performance, not future performances. Signing players like Jordan Staal is not how you create opportunity cost, it's how you piss it away.
    Last edited by 1908_Cubs; 02-04-2019 at 08:21 PM.

  7. #67
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    Eric Staal ... and he is so old and bad. One year is not a solution for a team who needs to gel as a unit. Not Jordan Staal, Eric Staal. Jordan isnít moving from Carolina anytime soon.

    We need to trade for a #2 center that will be here 3 years (or ideally for someone who is 24 and will be here 6 years), Frost should come into the league as a wing like G did, let patty grow (who is very good, he is 20 and playing 2nd line C on a bad defensive club). Vorobyev is not a replacement player, he is a super solid 4th line center as it stands - he is 22 ... again, just weird how we say he isnít good. I like him better than Laughton. We have plenty of high end players in the pipeline; Rubtsov will likely be a wing too.

    Replace from within, and use the assets to try to gain a high end #2 center.
    Last edited by castan_b; 02-04-2019 at 08:35 PM.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by castan_b View Post
    Eric Staal ... and he is so old and bad. One year is not a solution for a team who needs to gel as a unit. Not Jordan Staal, Eric Staal. Jordan isnít moving from Carolina anytime soon.

    We need to trade for a #2 center that will be here 3 years (or ideally for someone who is 24 and will be here 6 years), Frost should come into the league as a wing like G did, let patty grow (who is very good, he is 20 and playing 2nd line C on a bad defensive club). Vorobyev is not a replacement player, he is a super solid 4th line center as it stands - he is 22 ... again, just weird how we say he isnít good. I like him better than Laughton. We have plenty of high end players in the pipeline; Rubtsov will likely be a wing too.

    Replace from within, and use the assets to try to gain a high end #2 center.
    The sample size at the NHL level is for Vorobyev is small. That said he hasnt been impressive. If anything hes been a liability.

    He looks a little quicker tonight and at 22 I'm willing to give him time to figure things out. I still like the vision and playmaking I've seen at other levels.


    Eric stall is bad now? Hes on pace for his 3rd consecutive 28 goal and 60 pt season. I'm not sure that qualifies as bad. Also a positive possession player.

    I'm not opposed to a short term deal for Eric Staal. I'm just not sure what that would look like.


    I do kind of agree with steagles though, at some point you gotta do something other then draft. I'm just not sure what that something should be until we see who's actually commanding what in this offseason.

    My wish list is simple, in order of desire

    Additional impact forward.
    Top 4 caliber dman


    Theres cap space for both. Whether its via trade or free agency.

  9. #69
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    konecny should've given that to jvr .....whyyy

  10. #70
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    i don't see how sigining eric staal to a one year deal is bad? i don't want hayes at 6+ or nelson at 5+. If we are going to sign kevin hayes to 6+ then might as well sign duchene and no one wants his attitude here so...id rather wait for someone in the organization to take it once staal leaves or go for a trade or fa again.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3iverson3 View Post
    i don't see how sigining eric staal to a one year deal is bad? i don't want hayes at 6+ or nelson at 5+. If we are going to sign kevin hayes to 6+ then might as well sign duchene and no one wants his attitude here so...id rather wait for someone in the organization to take it once staal leaves or go for a trade or fa again.
    Enough line shuffling and 2nd line center issues is why ... Patty might be it, I think he is but if we add a young center who could be 2nd or 3rd line for the next 4 years, we can grow as a team and be stable. Especially when adding Frost, Farabee, Allison, etc. ... center consistency is key with young kids.

    Eric Staal just fills a hole to create one in 1 or 2 years. The penguins sign him anyway ... and that is what we need to get to. That takes stability for the formative years ... it was Crosby, Malkin, Staal for the first cup while Crosby was still young ... stability down the middle.

  12. #72
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    if the patrick draft happened all over again and the gms could see the production this year i think it would go petterson first, hischier, and then patrick

  13. #73
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    Eric Staal ... and he is so old and bad. One year is not a solution for a team who needs to gel as a unit. Not Jordan Staal, Eric Staal. Jordan isnít moving from Carolina anytime soon.
    actually, i was referring to jared staal.

    old and bad eric staal has 17 goals and 37 points this year, so i'm gonna go out on a limb and say he's a better option than vorobyev or laughton or any other internal options.
    Vorobyev is not a replacement player, he is a super solid 4th line center as it stands - he is 22 ... again, just weird how we say he isnít good
    solid 4th line center who doesn't kill penalties (and appears to be awful on faceoffs) is the definition of replacement level.

    i'm not saying he can't be good in the future, but right now, he isn't good.
    Same goes for Morgan Frost on the wing. I don't buy this narrative you've constructed that somehow he's so much better on the wing. I think he'll put up, especially young, nearly identical numbers at center or at the wing, IMO. He's got the talent to do both.
    i'm not questioning frost's talent; i'm questioning the utility of him spending half the game trying to be scott laughton.
    It's the exact gameplan the Minnesota Wild followed under Fletcher before. Spend in FA, piddle away the minor league system, and enter your name on the "always the bridesmaid, never a brides" ticket.
    have you ever actually looked at the roster you're attacking fletcher for wasting?

    5 of their top 9 forwards were out of the NHL within 3 years (heatley, setoguchi, johnson, bouchard, powe). 3 of the others (cullen, clutterbuck, brodziak) have been solid bottom 6 forwards.


    that offseason was when fletcher made his move, signed parise and suter and worked a bunch of rookies (coyle, brodin, granlund, zucker) into the lineup. that core has made the playoffs ever year since. oh, the horror.

  14. #74
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    And those overpayments crippled them nor were good enough to get to the cup or even out of the 2nd round, and that is from memory - not sure if they made a western finals

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by castan_b View Post
    Enough line shuffling and 2nd line center issues is why ... Patty might be it, I think he is but if we add a young center who could be 2nd or 3rd line for the next 4 years, we can grow as a team and be stable. Especially when adding Frost, Farabee, Allison, etc. ... center consistency is key with young kids.

    Eric Staal just fills a hole to create one in 1 or 2 years. The penguins sign him anyway ... and that is what we need to get to. That takes stability for the formative years ... it was Crosby, Malkin, Staal for the first cup while Crosby was still young ... stability down the middle.
    i want that too but not anything this free agency has to offer with the amount they will command. E. Staal is the cheapest at a one year deal. This is why I want the flyers to trade simmonds for a center prospect or a younger nhl center. The way the flyers are playing right now simmonds will most likely stay

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