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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by CasperX22 View Post
    You guys need to stop with the recency bias. And so what if they do? That's a good thing not a bad thing. Don't think the worst thing in the world would to be the new East version of the Predators playing great defense and great goaltending.
    Itís not decency bias. I was saying the same thing last year. I was commenting that we have 2 and itís hard to get 1. Donít read too much into it. I would keep them both and dominate.

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by steagles View Post
    larkin is really good; DET just has almost literally no talent around him. i will say that he would be my 3rd choice of the 3 centers i mentioned.
    if you'd pass on draisaitl at 8MM, i can't wait to hear your thoughts on voracek.
    i think we have paths to contention without provorov.
    i do not think we have a single path to contention without adding a top 20 center.
    look at AZ's defensive numbers with him on and off the ice at even strength. over the last two years they give up around 20% fewer shots, 20% fewer goals, with him vs. without.

    and he's great on the PK.
    Larkin is fine. He's an inferior version of Duchene. Pass.

    Why would you want to give up a 21 year old #1 defenseman? Why? What is the logic, Steagles? You do realize that there are only a handful of young defensemen with upside near that of Provy, right?

    You have Couturier, Patrick AND Frost down the middle. We have ample cap room. There's literally no reason to move Provorov.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace23 View Post
    Larkin is fine. He's an inferior version of Duchene. Pass.

    Why would you want to give up a 21 year old #1 defenseman? Why? What is the logic, Steagles? You do realize that there are only a handful of young defensemen with upside near that of Provy, right?

    You have Couturier, Patrick AND Frost down the middle. We have ample cap room. There's literally no reason to move Provorov.
    Honestly, if they could just subtract someone like Simmonds and add someone like Panarin that would make a huge difference. Maybe add 1 more fwd via trade and fill out the bottom of the roster in house.

  4. #184
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    lol when I meant trade a dman I 100% did not mean trade provorov. He is improving like crazy in this win streak and looks like the old provorov. 21 year old #1 dman. Why trade him? You only do that when you have a ton of defenseman that are already studs. For example: nashville traded seth jones to get johanson, someone they desperately needed. We don't need larkin desperately when we have couts and patrick already. I think a lot of people are sleeping on provorov and patrick. Both are studs. Patrick is looking as confident as he has been in a flyers uniform I think.

    If we can just get a 3C then we should be fine. Have whoever that player is split 2C duties until patrick can just run away with it. I agree with casper. Just get a top forward someway and fill the roster in house (the whole reason hexy did what he did...use it). I love what I am seeing from fletcher so far. He wants to see the young guys here and he wants them to play now so we can improve BOTH this year and next. If we have to lose a dman to expansion we can work around that. We can always trade ghost or whoever for a forward or just give the expansion team picks.

    I, however, would love to see our defense for a good amount of games. We went through hell with amac, mdz, schultz, manning, folin, etc. Last year we had one of the highest scoring defense with only provorov and ghost doing the heavy lifting. Now we can have that annually with myers and sanheim in the fold. This can make up for not having a stud forward (although if something gets available for ghost, do it lol). Lets see what we can do with a defense like this:

    provorov-myers/sanheim
    ghost-sanheim/myers
    hagg-gudas

    or

    provorov-myers
    sanheim-gudas
    hagg-ghost

  5. #185
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    Larkin is fine. He's an inferior version of Duchene. Pass.
    larkin is only 22 years old (5 months older than provorov, ffs). he's scoring nearly 1 PPG. he wins 54% of faceoffs. he kills penalties. he plays 22MPG. his CF% is 55. his CFrel% is +9. his PDO is sub 100. he's top 10 in shots, meaning he'll actually shoot the puck.

    larkin's best seasons are still ahead of him.
    You have Couturier, Patrick AND Frost down the middle. We have ample cap room. There's literally no reason to move Provorov.
    i'm not sold on patrick as a cup caliber top 6 center. i think frost's best position is on the wing.
    Why would you want to give up a 21 year old #1 defenseman? Why? What is the logic, Steagles? You do realize that there are only a handful of young defensemen with upside near that of Provy, right?
    as i said, i think we have paths to contention without provorov.
    i do not think we have a single path to contention without adding a top 20 center.
    fill the roster in house (the whole reason hexy did what he did.
    that's what got him fired.
    Last edited by steagles; 02-10-2019 at 10:42 PM.

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by steagles View Post
    i'm not sold on patrick as a cup caliber top 6 center. i think frost's best position is on the wing.
    as i said, i think we have paths to contention without provorov.
    i do not think we have a single path to contention without adding a top 20 center.that's what got him fired.
    as bad as detroit needs provorov, they need larkin as well. We would lose this trade too seeing as we need provorov more than anything. He plays 25+ minutes in all situations. We would be horrible without him. The only thing I agree with is that frost might be better at wing, but we won't know until he comes here.

    I just think its absolutely ludicrous to assume Patrick can never be a top 6 caliber center. I know you didn't say never, but the way you talk about it its as if he can't be one. If anything, you get a short term solution at center and let patrick develop into one. You never should trade all round defensemen like provorov. You do what the blues did...retain pietrangelo (provorov) and trade shattenkirk (ghost). However, we should do it for a top 6 forward, not picks.

  7. #187
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    Bailey and myers recalled but won't play tomorrow. Kinda odd but hopefully we see them soon. Would much rather have myers and bailey in for amac/varone. Bailey is fast as well, hes not just a big body. I expect myers to be sent down, unless he plays great, once morin is back and ready to be the 7th man
    Last edited by 3iverson3; 02-11-2019 at 12:31 AM.

  8. #188
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    I just think its absolutely ludicrous to assume Patrick can never be a top 6 caliber center. I know you didn't say never, but the way you talk about it its as if he can't be one. If anything, you get a short term solution at center and let patrick develop into one.
    i think it's possible that patrick will be as good as mikko koivu; i think it's relatively unlikely (<25% chance) that he will clearly be better than that. can we at least agree that trading for a top 20 NHL center would not prevent nolan patrick from developing into one?

    if you trade for larkin, and if patrick fulfills his potential, can you imagine what that would look like? couturier, larkin, patrick.

    i'd be happy with a short term solution at center, too.


    what i think is absolutely ludicrous is that as things stand right now, the successful development of a single player is a necessary prerequisite for this franchise doing anything of substance in the near future. it doesn't even guarantee anything; it's just something that we need to have a chance.
    We would lose this trade too seeing as we need provorov more than anything. He plays 25+ minutes in all situations. We would be horrible without him.
    taking provorov out of the lineup would create opportunities for sanheim, ghost and myers to grow into their potential that would not otherwise exist.

    i'm not completely gung-ho on this point, but i think there's a decent chance that those 3 (sanheim, ghost and myers) would be significantly more productive with those 25 minutes. there's no one guy who would need to replace provorov, but there a bunch of guys who would be able to step into bigger roles and fill the gaps.

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by steagles View Post
    i think it's possible that patrick will be as good as mikko koivu; i think it's relatively unlikely (<25% chance) that he will clearly be better than that. can we at least agree that trading for a top 20 NHL center would not prevent nolan patrick from developing into one?

    if you trade for larkin, and if patrick fulfills his potential, can you imagine what that would look like? couturier, larkin, patrick.

    i'd be happy with a short term solution at center, too.


    what i think is absolutely ludicrous is that as things stand right now, the successful development of a single player is a necessary prerequisite for this franchise doing anything of substance in the near future. it doesn't even guarantee anything; it's just something that we need to have a chance. taking provorov out of the lineup would create opportunities for sanheim, ghost and myers to grow into their potential that would not otherwise exist.

    i'm not completely gung-ho on this point, but i think there's a decent chance that those 3 (sanheim, ghost and myers) would be significantly more productive with those 25 minutes. there's no one guy who would need to replace provorov, but there a bunch of guys who would be able to step into bigger roles and fill the gaps.
    Provorov is literally pulling nearly 30 mins some nights drawing the toughest matchups every night. I don't think some of you guys have a full appreciation of just what Provorov means to this team. Couturier, Giroux, Hart, and Provorov are the guys on this roster we 100% cant do without if the plan is to make a run the next few seasons. Provorov literally makes it easier on the rest of the defense corps by putting them in positions they can and will succeed.

  10. #190
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    Patty is a solid #2 center and potential number 1 ... lol this ď25% chanceĒ ... absurd.

    Morin will have no effect on Myers playing. That is simply because everyone played well last game and you donít want their first start to be against Sidney Crosby.

  11. #191
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    Will be interested to see if nobody on d is moved and Morin is healthy if they employ a 7 D lineup with how little Gordon has utilized the 4th line.

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by CasperX22 View Post
    Will be interested to see if nobody on d is moved and Morin is healthy if they employ a 7 D lineup with how little Gordon has utilized the 4th line.
    The plan has always been to move ghost to the wing to fully reach his potential.

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace23 View Post
    Larkin is fine. He's an inferior version of Duchene. Pass.

    Why would you want to give up a 21 year old #1 defenseman? Why? What is the logic, Steagles? You do realize that there are only a handful of young defensemen with upside near that of Provy, right?

    You have Couturier, Patrick AND Frost down the middle. We have ample cap room. There's literally no reason to move Provorov.
    I'd trade Provy too....To get McDavid and that's about it...lol

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by steagles View Post
    i think it's possible that patrick will be as good as mikko koivu; i think it's relatively unlikely (<25% chance) that he will clearly be better than that. can we at least agree that trading for a top 20 NHL center would not prevent nolan patrick from developing into one?

    if you trade for larkin, and if patrick fulfills his potential, can you imagine what that would look like? couturier, larkin, patrick.

    i'd be happy with a short term solution at center, too.


    what i think is absolutely ludicrous is that as things stand right now, the successful development of a single player is a necessary prerequisite for this franchise doing anything of substance in the near future. it doesn't even guarantee anything; it's just something that we need to have a chance. taking provorov out of the lineup would create opportunities for sanheim, ghost and myers to grow into their potential that would not otherwise exist.

    i'm not completely gung-ho on this point, but i think there's a decent chance that those 3 (sanheim, ghost and myers) would be significantly more productive with those 25 minutes. there's no one guy who would need to replace provorov, but there a bunch of guys who would be able to step into bigger roles and fill the gaps.
    Point blank is that you don't trade a possible/probable future Norris Trophy candidate for guys on the offensive side of the puck unless you are nailing a blockbuster of a deal in a sure win fashion. If we got Larkin, Zadina, and their 1st this year, I might consider it, but I'm not trading Provy. Ghost for Larkin is more of a possibility than Provy for Larkin. That said, I'm not trading our young defensemen at this point.

    I would, however, trade Radko. I think he is a good case of selling high here. He is a right handed shot, playing well, has another year left on his contract, and, on our team, expendable. Morin coming in would cancel out the need for a Gudas. I bet we could trade him to a contending team for a 1st right at deadline time. Our defense would be really young, but ideal and fun.

    Top 6 = Provy, Ghost, Sandman, Myers, Morin, Haag...Amac/Friedman can be the 7th/8th for this year. Personally, I thought we were trading Gudas when I heard Myers got called up. Then when I am hearing he is being sat out, it makes me think they are working on the final details. Fun to speculate :P

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by LLMunchie619 View Post
    Point blank is that you don't trade a possible/probable future Norris Trophy candidate for guys on the offensive side of the puck unless you are nailing a blockbuster of a deal in a sure win fashion. If we got Larkin, Zadina, and their 1st this year, I might consider it, but I'm not trading Provy. Ghost for Larkin is more of a possibility than Provy for Larkin. That said, I'm not trading our young defensemen at this point.

    I would, however, trade Radko. I think he is a good case of selling high here. He is a right handed shot, playing well, has another year left on his contract, and, on our team, expendable. Morin coming in would cancel out the need for a Gudas. I bet we could trade him to a contending team for a 1st right at deadline time. Our defense would be really young, but ideal and fun.

    Top 6 = Provy, Ghost, Sandman, Myers, Morin, Haag...Amac/Friedman can be the 7th/8th for this year. Personally, I thought we were trading Gudas when I heard Myers got called up. Then when I am hearing he is being sat out, it makes me think they are working on the final details. Fun to speculate :P
    I agree ... I think Bailey was recalled in prep for a simmonds trade with a defender who is also moving ... so we have those guys playing the waiting game.

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