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Thread: Abortion

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    The abortion debate is a fantastic one, and I posted this in the other thread.

    It's a great example of ideological differences being used in a morality argument by people, which is our future identity politics leading to eventual genocide being played out on online forums.


    I'm pro life in my personal outlook. I would never abort a baby if my partner was pregnant (and didn't when my first child was born out of wedlock) and I would care if a family member aborted a baby.

    That said, I have a real problem with the government involved in anyone's personal life, especially in their bedrooms (as long as there isn't a victim that is - consenting adults is what I'm referring to). Abortion shouldn't be illegal. And it would only create unsafe passages for people that wanted to terminate pregnancies and we know that unwanted babies lead to future crime issues in the US.


    So while I am against making it illegal, I am against the termination of a life, and this fits with Capital Punishment.

    There are a few things that I think ancestors can look back 200 years and see with clarity how insane people once were. For example, none of us can understand how anyone could think it acceptable to own a slave, but 200 years ago, it was common, a form of economy, and normal in the US. We look back at our ancestors with contempt and frustration over this.

    I feel like terminating pregnancies will be viewed that way in 200 years from now. But that's my opinion.

    Our sexual revolution has allowed stuff to get to this point. I find that sad. And I think the family units are suffering because of it all.






    But this debate is comical.

    The left say it's about women's reproductive rights
    The right says you are killing babies, and usually do it for religious convictions, which are often times hypocritical Christians.

    Both sides talk past each other and don't listen, they'll argue about when the baby is considered a life, Planned Parenthood is an abortion clinic etc.

    The entire debate is nonsense because neither side is involved in productive dialogue.
    Idk, I think this is a subject difficult to talk about, because you have a hard time changing anyones mind.

    Can you imagine the population problems we might already be facing without abortion? Meh

    To me, it's a woman's body. All of this could be solved if we could turn off reproductive ability in a sex until a mature age and they pass a mental evaluation, etc. But we can't do that...

    I wouldn't have an abortion if my wife were to get pregnant. But like the death penalty, it's not for me to decide, or anyone else for that matter, what someone else does when it comes to abortion.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    The abortion debate is a fantastic one, and I posted this in the other thread.

    It's a great example of ideological differences being used in a morality argument by people, which is our future identity politics leading to eventual genocide being played out on online forums.

    I'm pro life in my personal outlook. I would never abort a baby if my partner was pregnant (and didn't when my first child was born out of wedlock) and I would care if a family member aborted a baby.

    That said, I have a real problem with the government involved in anyone's personal life, especially in their bedrooms (as long as there isn't a victim that is - consenting adults is what I'm referring to). Abortion shouldn't be illegal. And it would only create unsafe passages for people that wanted to terminate pregnancies and we know that unwanted babies lead to future crime issues in the US.

    So while I am against making it illegal, I am against the termination of a life, and this fits with Capital Punishment.

    There are a few things that I think ancestors can look back 200 years and see with clarity how insane people once were. For example, none of us can understand how anyone could think it acceptable to own a slave, but 200 years ago, it was common, a form of economy, and normal in the US. We look back at our ancestors with contempt and frustration over this.

    I feel like terminating pregnancies will be viewed that way in 200 years from now. But that's my opinion.

    Our sexual revolution has allowed stuff to get to this point. I find that sad. And I think the family units are suffering because of it all.

    But this debate is comical.

    The left say it's about women's reproductive rights
    The right says you are killing babies, and usually do it for religious convictions, which are often times hypocritical Christians.

    Both sides talk past each other and don't listen, they'll argue about when the baby is considered a life, Planned Parenthood is an abortion clinic etc.

    The entire debate is nonsense because neither side is involved in productive dialogue.
    I actually think the opposite, as technology increases the manipulation of childbirth and even our genes will only increase. The idea that as society becomes more able to control our reproductive rights we'd be more inclined to leave it to chance seems backwards to me.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    I actually think the opposite, as technology increases the manipulation of childbirth and even our genes will only increase. The idea that as society becomes more able to control our reproductive rights we'd be more inclined to leave it to chance seems backwards to me.
    not to rope in climate change, but at some point (200 years in the future), it's very possible the population will need to be controlled due to available resources. Furthermore, while religion will never die, nor should it I suppose, those whose beliefs on abortion stem from religions are lesser by the year, so I imagine if that continues in 200 years, that will barely be a subject line.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    not to rope in climate change, but at some point (200 years in the future), it's very possible the population will need to be controlled due to available resources. Furthermore, while religion will never die, nor should it I suppose, those whose beliefs on abortion stem from religions are lesser by the year, so I imagine if that continues in 200 years, that will barely be a subject line.
    Also in a general sense society gets less conservative on social issues over time.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Also in a general sense society gets less conservative on social issues over time.
    right, and I believe that is because religion plays less and less a part in our society.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    I actually think the opposite, as technology increases the manipulation of childbirth and even our genes will only increase. The idea that as society becomes more able to control our reproductive rights we'd be more inclined to leave it to chance seems backwards to me.
    I think our future ancestors will consider it a level of genocide (abortion), they'll shake their heads at our refusal to adopt to climate change, slavery, etc. all on the same level on contempt.

    Being a more pro-life leaning individual, I realize someone who would be pro-choice wouldn't agree with that statement. But that wouldn't shock me one bit if it turned out to be true. And none of us will ever live long enough to know.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    I think our future ancestors will consider it a level of genocide (abortion), they'll shake their heads at our refusal to adopt to climate change, slavery, etc. all on the same level on contempt.

    Being a more pro-life leaning individual, I realize someone who would be pro-choice wouldn't agree with that statement. But that wouldn't shock me one bit if it turned out to be true. And none of us will ever live long enough to know.
    I mean, we tear down statues because they glorify those who were for slavery, and have tons of contempt at our own history, so no, you are right in saying many years from now this time will also be looked at with contempt over things happening today that seem normal.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    right, and I believe that is because religion plays less and less a part in our society.
    Yes, and that's somewhat good, somewhat bad.

    I think we all agree that organized religion is pretty much 0 for in human history. Organized religion is ********, and we need to get rid of the way they operate and are set up.

    That said, there are religions that help with things that I think are human evolutionary needed, like service to others, strong family units, etc.

    In my perfect Utopian world, we wouldn't have religion, but we would carry on many of the cores values that religion teaches and gives our society. It would be unfair to say otherwise without data, but I feel like both of those things are diminishing with the loss of overall conservatism and religion in our society now (i.e. selfless service to others is dropping and strong family units are dropping)

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    I mean, we tear down statues because they glorify those who were for slavery, and have tons of contempt at our own history, so no, you are right in saying many years from now this time will also be looked at with contempt over things happening today that seem normal.
    100%, I just mean that many won't agree on what (I think abortion, others likely won't agree with that sentiment).

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    Yes, and that's somewhat good, somewhat bad.

    I think we all agree that organized religion is pretty much 0 for in human history. Organized religion is ********, and we need to get rid of the way they operate and are set up.

    That said, there are religions that help with things that I think are human evolutionary needed, like service to others, strong family units, etc.

    In my perfect Utopian world, we wouldn't have religion, but we would carry on many of the cores values that religion teaches and gives our society. It would be unfair to say otherwise without data, but I feel like both of those things are diminishing with the loss of overall conservatism and religion in our society now (i.e. selfless service to others is dropping and strong family units are dropping)
    I absolutely agree man. Absolutely.

    Look, I am anti-religion because of exactly what you bring up-it has caused so much pain over time. But at an individual/community level, it still has huge benefits. Hell I am going to raise my daughter with non-denominational christian values, because I think it's still important for her to understand the foundation of America, and to have some sort of set of principals and morals given to her from something other than her parents.

    The power of religion has declined, and at a national/govt level, needs to continue to do so. But, on an indivudal level, I am for anything that will help a person lead a morally good life. If religion offers that avenue to a person or family, more power to them.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    100%, I just mean that many won't agree on what (I think abortion, others likely won't agree with that sentiment).
    I am curious as to how sexual liberation is viewed 200 years from now. Like Demolition Man (no physical sex anymore), or will we be having sex with everything in sight?

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    I am curious as to how sexual liberation is viewed 200 years from now. Like Demolition Man (no physical sex anymore), or will we be having sex with everything in sight?
    If we could see into the world 200 years from now, it would dramatically change our actions today. Wish we could get a glimpse of life 200 years from now. Technology, etc.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye15 View Post
    I am curious as to how sexual liberation is viewed 200 years from now. Like Demolition Man (no physical sex anymore), or will we be having sex with everything in sight?
    This sounds like a debate similar to 1984 vs Brave New World. Seeing as the surveillance has gone towards BRave New World, I'm going to say that it will go to sex with everything in sight rather than none.
    Think long and hard about why you respond to nonsense. Please!


  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    If we could see into the world 200 years from now, it would dramatically change our actions today. Wish we could get a glimpse of life 200 years from now. Technology, etc.
    If we could see 200 years from now, I have a feeling a lot of people would be apologizing for their efforts to block anything to reverse global climate change.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffy25 View Post
    If we could see into the world 200 years from now, it would dramatically change our actions today. Wish we could get a glimpse of life 200 years from now. Technology, etc.
    I fear they will look at this time period as one that had a chance to stop climate change, but instead sat on their hands wasting precious time. But your sentiment is exactly right.

    If you want the ultimate, you've got to be willing to pay the ultimate price. It's not tragic to die doing what you love.

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