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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    looks like McNeil will be moved for a pen arm.
    I think you're right.

    And it will be an awful trade. I suspect this team is too cheap to sign a reliever for money. The question is, though, why pay Lowrie the money that could have gone to a reliever when - for the same money - you could have had McNeil, who has greater net value than Lowrie, and a similar reliever?

    Fred and Jeff seem to have an obsession with importing outside second basemen, whether they need them or not, combined with a disdain for homegrown 2nd basemen. Between Murphy, Turner and Flores, they've squandered a ton of potential value. I'm afraid we can soon add McNeil to that list.

    Barring injuries, either McNeil sees no playing time, or he's dealt. This nullifies the potential benefit of Lowrie. It will probably also keep Alonso down past Super 2. Just a dumb allocation of resources. McNeil and all the assets they traded away were/are undervalued. They'd have been better off just spending money to fill the holes.

  2. #62
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    Dec 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by yfern328 View Post
    Zmaster nailed the lineup.

    If McNeil can play RF or LF we are in business. And it appears the Mets will go that route. Balance from top to bottom and LH/RH balance.

    Brandon Nimmo, CF
    Jed Lowrie, 3B
    Robinson Cano, 2B
    Wilson Ramos, C
    Michael Conforto, LF
    Peter Alonso, 1B
    Jeff McNeil, RF
    Amed Rosario, SS

    Love it. They just have to smartly deploy Lagares/Broxton when the numbers look good and for defense.

    Frazier and Lagares are redundant, but they can use Frazier as Alonso insurance, and Lagares can play vs LHB and for defense. Big fan of the depth until Cespedes comes back. Iíd deal Lagares before Frazier. I donít mind Frazier on the bench.

    Add 1 more pen arm and this team can absolutely do damage since they just have so much depth.


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    Assuming McNeil stays, I assume heíll be in there against tough righties most of the time probably playing left field. One of Lagares Or Broxton isnít going to see much playing time but itíll all work itself out.

    Youíre right that Frazier and Lagares are redundant...itís an expensive bench, I would not at all be surprised to see them be moved.


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    If Trump can become president with no political background then I don't understand why I need a resumť

  3. #63
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    Dec 2008
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    7,767
    Quote Originally Posted by Coupon View Post
    I think you're right.

    And it will be an awful trade. I suspect this team is too cheap to sign a reliever for money. The question is, though, why pay Lowrie the money that could have gone to a reliever when - for the same money - you could have had McNeil, who has greater net value than Lowrie, and a similar reliever?

    Fred and Jeff seem to have an obsession with importing outside second basemen, whether they need them or not, combined with a disdain for homegrown 2nd basemen. Between Murphy, Turner and Flores, they've squandered a ton of potential value. I'm afraid we can soon add McNeil to that list.

    Barring injuries, either McNeil sees no playing time, or he's dealt. This nullifies the potential benefit of Lowrie. It will probably also keep Alonso down past Super 2. Just a dumb allocation of resources. McNeil and all the assets they traded away were/are undervalued. They'd have been better off just spending money to fill the holes.
    You're *****ing about trading McNeil when there's been no indications of trading McNeil. What this likely means is more of McNeil in a corner OF spot. If anyone ends up being the odd man out I think it's Frazier. His contract won't be a problem to dump.

  4. #64
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    Feb 2007
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    Flushing, 10/16/69
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    1,118
    I love the idea of having Lowrie but we can't judge this move in a vacuum. As Coupon and others have mentioned, it depends upon what else we do, and I hope we don't unload McNeil. I like the flexibility and offensive potential of this infield but we really don't have anyone to back up Rosario at SS for more than a spot start or a few innings here or there. If Rosario sees any DL time we'd have to call someone up. Also, not thrilled with the idea of McNeil seeing a lot of time in LF. That would push Nimmo/Conforto into CF for significant ABs and further impede our defense. Unloading Frazier and Lagares, if only for salary dump, might help the most, opening things up a bit for McNeil (3B/1B/OF), Lowrie, Alonso and hopefully a true impact center-fielder.

  5. #65
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    Jul 2008
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    For the money they spent on Jed, Wilson, Travis and some loose change we could have Machado manning the hot corner.

    But thatís just me.

    Donít hate the signing, just feel the resources could have been used differently.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    33,491
    Iím not thrilled with the trading away of talent but I canít fault the depth of this roster now - it is loaded with quality players 1-25. That is something we havenít had in a very long time.

    If Machado ends up in Philly and Harper back on Nats it will still put the Mets in a tough spot. But at least they now have the depth to be competitive if the pitching holds true.

    Hard to find problems with this move.


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    Don't worry. He's got this.

  7. #67
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    Aug 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by GottaBelieve View Post
    Iím not thrilled with the trading away of talent but I canít fault the depth of this roster now - it is loaded with quality players 1-25. That is something we havenít had in a very long time.

    If Machado ends up in Philly and Harper back on Nats it will still put the Mets in a tough spot. But at least they now have the depth to be competitive if the pitching holds true.

    Hard to find problems with this move.


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    Well, I'm finding a problem in how this signing illustrates yet another "win it all in 2019" move while they are decidedly not going after either of the two players who will best help them do that: Machado or Harper. But i will say this: Unlike most of the other players they've picked up, Lowrie is a complete baseball player as evidenced by his WAR. He's more than an OPS. That's something that's been lacking on this team for years.

    But again, I don't like that we're burying McNeil even further. All goes back to that F-ing Cano trade. Lowrie is 35 although the good news is we only have him for 2 years. But what are they going to do with McNeil in the meanwhile? Someone suggested they'r'e going to trade him for a relief pitcher. That would kill me.

    Or not. Because as much as I fell in love with McNeil (even though he lacks the obvious prerequisite Ts and A-- for such a love to be consummated), he could have also been a one-year flash. He could have had his career year in 2018, much like a dude named Steve Henderson did when he burst on the scene as the marquee return for Tom Seaver. In a little more than half a season, Henderson showed line drive double-digit home run power and an ability to get on base better than a .370 clip. Should have won ROY. Then he was never that player again. How old was he at the time of the trade? A few months shy of his 25th birthday. McNeil was a few months past his 26th.

    So you never know. I guess my only issue is that if you go all out, you have to go ALL OUT. I like that the Mets are improving. I don't like that they're improving with mostly older players at the expense of younger players playing time. That's all.
    Last edited by fanofclendennon; 01-11-2019 at 10:09 AM.
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears Ė but they seem kinda sensible...."

  8. #68
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    Sep 2010
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    Mets sign Jed Lowrie 2 years 20 million dollars

    Having depth means there will be more opportunities for fans to complain when MC takes a hot hitter out of the lineup bc the analytics say another player matches up better against the SP.

    True or false?


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  9. #69
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    Jan 2009
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    Love the signing. I won't complain about the Mets paying to add talent.

    But I do agree slightly with the notion that I'd rather the Wilpons have allowed BVW to spend all this money on Machado or Harper. That kind've move would help the current championship window, and actually extend it.

    Adding guys like Cano, Lowrie, Ramos, etc. only help the chance to win in the next ~2 years.

    But, again, knowing how the Wilpons operate, I'm just happy whenever they spend any money to sign good players, and Lowrie is a good baseball player.
    #oneatatime

  10. #70
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    May 2016
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    227
    Big fan of this signing. It seems a bit redundant but seeing how the cubs used zobrist makes me feel that Lowry will be that exact mold of player. Maybe not the outfield ability of zobrist but capable at every infield position.

    Iíd like to say I was wrong on Brodie and the wilpons. I said last weeks bargain signings would be the end of any significant money they spent and I was clearly wrong. I love our infield and rotation now. CF and solid middle reliever are still suspect to me. Hope we do something to sure up one of those

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    For the money they spent on Jed, Wilson, Travis and some loose change we could have Machado manning the hot corner.

    But thatís just me.

    Donít hate the signing, just feel the resources could have been used differently.
    For this year sure. But you conveniently left out the fact that Machado will probably sign like a 10 year contract, not at 2 year contract. That matters more than anything to the Wilpons or any other owner, not the AAV so much.
    Quote Originally Posted by El Patito View Post
    Wow, you just won't let this go will you? I'd be more than happy to provide the numbers again if you'd like. The fact is that Marmol in his best season, put up one of the greatest performances by a reliever in the history of baseball. Better than Rivera? Youre damn right. You can't deny this.
    Marmolololololol

  12. #72
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    Dec 2007
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    Not gonna lie, we are deep as hell
    Quote Originally Posted by El Patito View Post
    Wow, you just won't let this go will you? I'd be more than happy to provide the numbers again if you'd like. The fact is that Marmol in his best season, put up one of the greatest performances by a reliever in the history of baseball. Better than Rivera? Youre damn right. You can't deny this.
    Marmolololololol

  13. #73
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    Aug 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrigheyes4MVP View Post
    For this year sure. But you conveniently left out the fact that Machado will probably sign like a 10 year contract, not at 2 year contract. That matters more than anything to the Wilpons or any other owner, not the AAV so much.
    Yeah. You can't combine all these short term signings and add them to Cano's contract and come up with a Machado or Harper would-be deal.
    "Ain't got the call no more. Got a lot of sinful idears Ė but they seem kinda sensible...."

  14. #74
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    Jul 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrigheyes4MVP View Post
    For this year sure. But you conveniently left out the fact that Machado will probably sign like a 10 year contract, not at 2 year contract. That matters more than anything to the Wilpons or any other owner, not the AAV so much.
    I didn't conveniently leave out anything. It is common knowledge that he will sign for a multi year contract. I was going under the assumption that this fanbase was intelligent, I guess that was a mistake on my part.

    Would you rather have a 26 year old 3rd baseman or 26 year outfielder or a 36 year old 2nd baseman & a 35 year old utility infielder/3rd baseman?

    Because the cost is roughly identical.
    Last edited by Claymation; 01-11-2019 at 12:34 PM.


    "You don't know how to drink. Your whole generation, you drink for the wrong reasons. My generation, we drink because it's good, because it feels better than unbuttoning your collar, because we deserve it. We drink because it's what men do."

  15. #75
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    Oct 2011
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    Brooklyn
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claymation View Post
    I didn't conveniently left out anything. It is common knowledge that he will sign for a multi year contract. I was going under the assumption that this fanbase was intelligent, I guess that was a mistake on my part.

    Would you rather have a 26 year old 3rd baseman or 26 year outfielder or a 36 year old 2nd baseman & a 35 year old utility infielder/3rd baseman?

    Because the cost is roughly identical.
    Don't insult other fans because you're being intellectually dishonest. The reason why the Wilpons will spend similar AAV to what Machado will make in 2019 is because they don't take issue with short term risk. They do, however, scoff at the idea of paying that annual money (which will be backloaded) over 10 or more years.

    They're not at all relatable.

    The Mets and the fans are well aware who the better player is, Clay. Its a matter of total investment the Wilpons are not willing to make.

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