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  1. #1561
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    so we've talked about our starting QB situation but not much about our backup, largely because Kirk doesn't miss games.......Josh Rosen is still only 24, has NEVER really gotten a shot (and therefore is considered a bust) and could be released by the Niners.....we've looked at Jake Browning for 2 years, Nate Stanley for a year, and neither good enough to beat out Sean Forking Mannion.......so unless there's a Russell Wilson our there or we're going bigger by taking a 1st rd QB do we want to go another year taking the chance Kirk again stays healthy?
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  2. #1562
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    so we've talked about our starting QB situation but not much about our backup, largely because Kirk doesn't miss games.......Josh Rosen is still only 24, has NEVER really gotten a shot (and therefore is considered a bust) and could be released by the Niners.....we've looked at Jake Browning for 2 years, Nate Stanley for a year, and neither good enough to beat out Sean Forking Mannion.......so unless there's a Russell Wilson our there or we're going bigger by taking a 1st rd QB do we want to go another year taking the chance Kirk again stays healthy?
    There seems to be some chatter that the Vikes are looking at QB's, perhaps one with a 4th Rd pick. I'm totally on board for that because then they could sit at minimum (you hope) the 2 years left on Kirks contract.

    So what do we do if a QB is there at 14? I'm not big on Mac Jones, I would pass on him or trade back but what about Justin Fields? It's been released that he has epilepsy, which for some teams could be a red flag. Honestly I would take him at 14 if he's high on their board like I would expect. Am I nuts, what would you guys do? I like Fields too.

  3. #1563
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacofunk64 View Post
    There seems to be some chatter that the Vikes are looking at QB's, perhaps one with a 4th Rd pick. I'm totally on board for that because then they could sit at minimum (you hope) the 2 years left on Kirks contract.

    So what do we do if a QB is there at 14? I'm not big on Mac Jones, I would pass on him or trade back but what about Justin Fields? It's been released that he has epilepsy, which for some teams could be a red flag. Honestly I would take him at 14 if he's high on their board like I would expect. Am I nuts, what would you guys do? I like Fields too.
    If Vikes dont move off of 14 and Fields or Lance are there, i think you have to take one of them. Knowing you move Kirk after this season. However, if Zim and Rick are in win now mode (which they should be), then you can't invest that draft capital into someone who wont even be playing this year.

    Obviously a lot depends on how the draft board is falling, but with the Dolphins and Panthers now rumored to be wanting to move down, i could see Rick packaging picks to go up and get Sewell or Slater.

    If a trade up doesnt happen, and neither guy is available at 14, i think we trade down, or make a move for Orlando Brown Jr. I realize he doesnt fit our criteria for OL, but OBJ is 110% getting traded this off season, he will just cost so such much in draft capital and next contract.

    If we trade down, (hopefully into that 18-23 range) i think we then end up target Vera-Tucker, or one of the top edge rusher like Kwity Paye.

    Really not thrilled about the OL or DE options at 14 if Slater and Sewell are off the board. I dont think any other lineman (even Darisaw) are worth it at 14, let alone ANY of the DE's.

    If we go CB at 14 even if its Surtain or Horn i am going to lose it.

  4. #1564
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    Orlando brown was just traded to kc so thatís off the table, had seen some rumors


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  5. #1565
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    at first I thought #14 for Brown and #27 wasn't a fair deal. And then the Cheifs literally give them a ham sandwich and a coupon to the dollar tree. WTF. Getting Baltimores 2nd round pick Cheifs basically moved down from 31 to 58 for a 24yo stud OL which is the draft value of the 63rd overall pick.

  6. #1566
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacofunk64 View Post
    There seems to be some chatter that the Vikes are looking at QB's, perhaps one with a 4th Rd pick. I'm totally on board for that because then they could sit at minimum (you hope) the 2 years left on Kirks contract.

    So what do we do if a QB is there at 14? I'm not big on Mac Jones, I would pass on him or trade back but what about Justin Fields? It's been released that he has epilepsy, which for some teams could be a red flag. Honestly I would take him at 14 if he's high on their board like I would expect. Am I nuts, what would you guys do? I like Fields too.
    I like fields, I would definitely take the franchise qb if thatís how they see it. I would hope they can go to ownership and get a few more years if they go this route.

    I do think their jobs are kinda on the line now so Iím not sure what they would actually do. I think missing the playoffs 3/4 years after ďgoing all inĒ and having money already pushed down the road would be a real tough look. Speilman and zimmer would/should probably be gone if we miss the playoffs again so that could play into it.


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  7. #1567
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    2021 Free Agency and Trade Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by El Jorge 69 View Post
    at first I thought #14 for Brown and #27 wasn't a fair deal. And then the Cheifs literally give them a ham sandwich and a coupon to the dollar tree. WTF. Getting Baltimores 2nd round pick Cheifs basically moved down from 31 to 58 for a 24yo stud OL which is the draft value of the 63rd overall pick.
    Iím sure the contract plays into it but seems he did move pretty cheap overall. I think a couple Mid rounders in there too but generally it was a solid get for kc at the price.


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  8. #1568
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    I've been against trading for Brown since the start so I'm glad they didn't make that trade.

    Rapsheet reported numerous teams are talking to Eric Fisher and he's a name to keep an eye on after the draft.
    2021 Vikings Draft:
    1: Christian Darrisaw OT Virginia Tech
    3: Kellen Mond QB Texas A&M
    3: Chazz Surratt LB North Carolina
    3: Wyatt Davis G Ohio State
    3: Patrick Jones III DE Pittsburgh
    4: Kene Nwangwu RB Iowa State
    4: Camryn Bynum S California
    4: Janarius Robinson DE Florida State
    5: Ihmir Smith-Marsette WR Iowa
    5: Zach Davidson TE Central Missouri St.
    6: Jaylen Twyman DT Pittsburgh

  9. #1569
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikingsfan0845 View Post
    I've been against trading for Brown since the start so I'm glad they didn't make that trade.

    Rapsheet reported numerous teams are talking to Eric Fisher and he's a name to keep an eye on after the draft.
    As someone who wants Fisher. What worries me about that statement are two things that will ultimately rule out the Vikings. 1: multiple teams means our low ball offers won't get anywhere and 2: after the draft means we probably lose leverage being the only team that would commit to him before they see who they can get instead.

  10. #1570
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Jorge 69 View Post
    As someone who wants Fisher. What worries me about that statement are two things that will ultimately rule out the Vikings. 1: multiple teams means our low ball offers won't get anywhere and 2: after the draft means we probably lose leverage being the only team that would commit to him before they see who they can get instead.
    The draft is so deep at OT that a lot of LT openings are going to get filled. These teams could each use a LT:

    Bengals
    Panthers
    Chargers
    Vikings
    Redskins
    Colts
    Steelers

    Sewell, Slater and Darrisaw are day 1 starters. Cosmi, Eichenberg, and Christensen have a chance to start quickly. That's only going to leave a couple jobs open. The Vikings will be getting 7.9 million from Rudy's release on June 2nd so we'll have enough cash to give Fisher a decent offer and sign our draft class.
    2021 Vikings Draft:
    1: Christian Darrisaw OT Virginia Tech
    3: Kellen Mond QB Texas A&M
    3: Chazz Surratt LB North Carolina
    3: Wyatt Davis G Ohio State
    3: Patrick Jones III DE Pittsburgh
    4: Kene Nwangwu RB Iowa State
    4: Camryn Bynum S California
    4: Janarius Robinson DE Florida State
    5: Ihmir Smith-Marsette WR Iowa
    5: Zach Davidson TE Central Missouri St.
    6: Jaylen Twyman DT Pittsburgh

  11. #1571
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    Just amazing watching the Chiefs do their work. Great teams stay great, and average teams like the Vikings stay average. Chiefs blow up their OL, and now legit have one of the best OLs in football just like that. The cap is a myth and they will be paying guys like Brown and thuney premier money at those OL positions.

    Meanwhile, RICK and the vikes trade for backup G/C's, give Dozier contract extensions, bring back Rashod Hill, and will now probably take a flyer on a 3rd LT.

    The average vikings find a way to stay average.

    I hope a 7-9 days from now i am super pumped by the way things went in the draft, but it is definitely not looking promising. If you get Slater or Sewell you are giving up a lot of draft capital. If you wait, you are getting guys like projects OTs.

    No one should be more upset than Kirk and Dalvin.

  12. #1572
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    Quote Originally Posted by APmvp28 View Post
    Just amazing watching the Chiefs do their work. Great teams stay great, and average teams like the Vikings stay average. Chiefs blow up their OL, and now legit have one of the best OLs in football just like that. The cap is a myth and they will be paying guys like Brown and thuney premier money at those OL positions.

    Meanwhile, RICK and the vikes trade for backup G/C's, give Dozier contract extensions, bring back Rashod Hill, and will now probably take a flyer on a 3rd LT.

    The average vikings find a way to stay average.

    I hope a 7-9 days from now i am super pumped by the way things went in the draft, but it is definitely not looking promising. If you get Slater or Sewell you are giving up a lot of draft capital. If you wait, you are getting guys like projects OTs.

    No one should be more upset than Kirk and Dalvin.
    https://vikingsterritory.com/2021/ge...citydifference

    I saw this article and felt like it's saying something very similar, I mean I think many posters on here have been pointing this out for years now. It's amazing how the glaring issue can never be solved yet another team that everyone talks about with no cap etc. just completely revamped their oline easily in an offseason. They were simply aggressive about it and able to manage cap effectively/efficiently. That's part of why I asked about our cap guy, I always hear he is good but I never really see anything come out of it in practice (well we did get fined/lose a pick I think but I mean positive lol). Many teams can push money back the way we do then create just enough space each year to rinse repeat and have average/slightly above results. It's not necessarily on him as I think Rick might be our actual biggest issue overall but I never see us making some of these pushes other teams are able or maneuvering for larger moves for big pushes. We create enough to fill a hole or two (not always wisely) and then settle for assuming draft will fix the rest.

    I hope we crush the draft but it's depressing knowing our oline is currently worse than last year heading in/post FA and it has been the glaring issue for like what 6 seasons now?
    Last edited by mngopher35; 04-24-2021 at 04:53 PM.

  13. #1573
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    https://vikingsterritory.com/2021/ge...citydifference

    I saw this article and felt like it's saying something very similar, I mean I think many posters on here have been pointing this out for years now. It's amazing how the glaring issue can never be solved yet another team that everyone talks about with no cap etc. just completely revamped their oline easily in an offseason. They were simply aggressive about it and able to manage cap effectively/efficiently. That's part of why I asked about our cap guy, I always hear he is good but I never really see anything come out of it in practice (well we did get fined/lose a pick I think but I mean positive lol). Many teams can push money back the way we do then create just enough space each year to rinse repeat and have average/slightly above results. It's not necessarily on him as I think Rick might be our actual biggest issue overall but I never see us making some of these pushes other teams are able or maneuvering for larger moves for big pushes. We create enough to fill a hole or two (not always wisely) and then settle for assuming draft will fix the rest.

    I hope we crush the draft but it's depressing knowing our oline is currently worse than last year heading in/post FA and it has been the glaring issue for like what 6 seasons now?
    I don't particularly agree to much with that article to be honest. Nor do I like the moves the Chiefs made. I wasn't a fan of the Vikings going after Brown or Thuney and IMO the Chiefs over paid for both. Why give up a bunch of draft picks and hand out a huge contract to an OL when the upcoming draft is absolutely loaded with prospects? Something like 20-25% of the top prospects in the draft this year are lineman.

    And to say the Vikings aren't reacting to their problems is a poor statement. It's stupid to pigeon hole the entire off season onto the OL, especially when the draft hasn't even happened and we still have cash to spend. The defense was last year was a bigger issue than our OL and the Vikings created a bunch of cap space so they could add 6 new players to the defense. 20.9 million dollars spend on the D. Remember we were over the cap to start the off season. I have some questions about the moves we've made but so far Rick has been one of the most aggressive GM's this off season.
    2021 Vikings Draft:
    1: Christian Darrisaw OT Virginia Tech
    3: Kellen Mond QB Texas A&M
    3: Chazz Surratt LB North Carolina
    3: Wyatt Davis G Ohio State
    3: Patrick Jones III DE Pittsburgh
    4: Kene Nwangwu RB Iowa State
    4: Camryn Bynum S California
    4: Janarius Robinson DE Florida State
    5: Ihmir Smith-Marsette WR Iowa
    5: Zach Davidson TE Central Missouri St.
    6: Jaylen Twyman DT Pittsburgh

  14. #1574
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikingsfan0845 View Post
    I don't particularly agree to much with that article to be honest. Nor do I like the moves the Chiefs made. I wasn't a fan of the Vikings going after Brown or Thuney and IMO the Chiefs over paid for both. Why give up a bunch of draft picks and hand out a huge contract to an OL when the upcoming draft is absolutely loaded with prospects? Something like 20-25% of the top prospects in the draft this year are lineman.

    And to say the Vikings aren't reacting to their problems is a poor statement. It's stupid to pigeon hole the entire off season onto the OL, especially when the draft hasn't even happened and we still have cash to spend. The defense was last year was a bigger issue than our OL and the Vikings created a bunch of cap space so they could add 6 new players to the defense. 20.9 million dollars spend on the D. Remember we were over the cap to start the off season. I have some questions about the moves we've made but so far Rick has been one of the most aggressive GM's this off season.
    They were aggressive and fit everything into the cap just like we do to fix a need. I donít agree with some of our contracts either (cousins comes to mind) but oh well we are stuck with guys at the prices. I donít really like the guys we signed for their prices this off-season either with the market for dts and peterson declining play.

    Itís not doing it off one off-season necessarily as has been pointed out this is the issue every off season for us and is never fully taken care of. If we had shown an ability to draft lineman then ok but that hasnít really worked that well is part of the issue. We will see though if we use our first couple picks on oline it at least would be a good start. We have been aggressive this season but not towards oline which is the constant need we have always had. They fixed it ASAP because of how important it is.

    I think plenty of gms are aggressive but what is the end game matters. If ours is to win and be all in we will need a good oline given our offense and a strong defense. We did a lot to shore up the defense but we just constantly fail to address oline at any point in the same manner repeatedly. I do hope your right and we take a very aggressive approach to oline in the draft. It means missing out on a lot of guys people have been mocking to us though. We need edge/wr still as well as secondary depth so while he has maybe been aggressive part of that is cuts and letting go so we have left plenty of holes on our team still needing addressed. When you are all in competing and you have a hole you fix it. We have a lot of holes sure and some of this we do them for but never oline.


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  15. #1575
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    They were aggressive and fit everything into the cap just like we do to fix a need. I donít agree with some of our contracts either (cousins comes to mind) but oh well we are stuck with guys at the prices. I donít really like the guys we signed for their prices this off-season either with the market for dts and peterson declining play.

    Itís not doing it off one off-season necessarily as has been pointed out this is the issue every off season for us and is never fully taken care of. If we had shown an ability to draft lineman then ok but that hasnít really worked that well is part of the issue. We will see though if we use our first couple picks on oline it at least would be a good start. We have been aggressive this season but not towards oline which is the constant need we have always had. They fixed it ASAP because of how important it is.

    I think plenty of gms are aggressive but what is the end game matters. If ours is to win and be all in we will need a good oline given our offense and a strong defense. We did a lot to shore up the defense but we just constantly fail to address oline at any point in the same manner repeatedly. I do hope your right and we take a very aggressive approach to oline in the draft. It means missing out on a lot of guys people have been mocking to us though. We need edge/wr still as well as secondary depth so while he has maybe been aggressive part of that is cuts and letting go so we have left plenty of holes on our team still needing addressed. When you are all in competing and you have a hole you fix it. We have a lot of holes sure and some of this we do them for but never oline.


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    I keep seeing this a lot but I don't think it's true. I don't know what the exact numbers are but I would be willing to bet there aren't many teams who have invested more into the OL than the Vikings the last 5 years. 4 straight years we've picked OL within the top 70 picks. 10 picks total have been OL the last 4 years. Reiff and Remmers were given big contracts. The year before that Alex Boone signed a big deal. This FO has consistently been addressing the OL. The problem is out of this group only 1 drafted lineman (O'Neill) can be considered a hit and Reiff, while solid, was still overpaid. Signing Josh Kline is somehow one of the best OL moves we've made in 5 years and he was at best average. The funny thing about O'Neill is when he was picked nobody really knew who he was lol

    I'm always asking myself who is to blame. At the end of the day it obviously falls on Rick but my understanding on the teams draft process is that a lot of guys get their say. I know Wonnum was picked because Patterson really liked him. I recall after Bradbury was picked it was mentioned that Kubiak had a say in the pick because he considered the center position important to his zone scheme. So is Rick getting poor guidance from his scouts/offensive coaches? His track record at basically every other position is pretty good. Does Rick just go fullretard when it comes to scouting OL prospects? I find all these misses to be pretty strange because it's hard to be this bad at something. I pretty much agree with their approach to OL. OT's are important, their priority picks and should get paid. Guards don't matter, find them in the middle rounds and pay them cheap. Just the execution has been very very bad. I hope Rick doesn't get desperate and change up the approach and pick at guard at 14. Hopefully we get lucky and the depth of this draft causes a few guys who can start to fall into our lap.
    2021 Vikings Draft:
    1: Christian Darrisaw OT Virginia Tech
    3: Kellen Mond QB Texas A&M
    3: Chazz Surratt LB North Carolina
    3: Wyatt Davis G Ohio State
    3: Patrick Jones III DE Pittsburgh
    4: Kene Nwangwu RB Iowa State
    4: Camryn Bynum S California
    4: Janarius Robinson DE Florida State
    5: Ihmir Smith-Marsette WR Iowa
    5: Zach Davidson TE Central Missouri St.
    6: Jaylen Twyman DT Pittsburgh

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