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  1. #1576
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikingsfan0845 View Post
    I keep seeing this a lot but I don't think it's true. I don't know what the exact numbers are but I would be willing to bet there aren't many teams who have invested more into the OL than the Vikings the last 5 years. 4 straight years we've picked OL within the top 70 picks. 10 picks total have been OL the last 4 years. Reiff and Remmers were given big contracts. The year before that Alex Boone signed a big deal. This FO has consistently been addressing the OL. The problem is out of this group only 1 drafted lineman (O'Neill) can be considered a hit and Reiff, while solid, was still overpaid. Signing Josh Kline is somehow one of the best OL moves we've made in 5 years and he was at best average. The funny thing about O'Neill is when he was picked nobody really knew who he was lol

    I'm always asking myself who is to blame. At the end of the day it obviously falls on Rick but my understanding on the teams draft process is that a lot of guys get their say. I know Wonnum was picked because Patterson really liked him. I recall after Bradbury was picked it was mentioned that Kubiak had a say in the pick because he considered the center position important to his zone scheme. So is Rick getting poor guidance from his scouts/offensive coaches? His track record at basically every other position is pretty good. Does Rick just go fullretard when it comes to scouting OL prospects? I find all these misses to be pretty strange because it's hard to be this bad at something. I pretty much agree with their approach to OL. OT's are important, their priority picks and should get paid. Guards don't matter, find them in the middle rounds and pay them cheap. Just the execution has been very very bad. I hope Rick doesn't get desperate and change up the approach and pick at guard at 14. Hopefully we get lucky and the depth of this draft causes a few guys who can start to fall into our lap.
    Well I guess it depends on how you view it, I do not think we have ever signed a guy like Thuney and made a trade for a guy like Brown at all. Have we reached/overpaid someone everyone thought would have issues given his history because we weren't more aggressive in the market in Remmers? Yup. Have we signed cheap options like Klein too? Yup. I am talking about actual aggressive moves that are going to solve the problems and I think only Reiff fits that mold and even he isn't considered as good as either of the above I would say. It isn't just about filling a spot it is about getting talented players to fill a spot and Rick has absolutely failed at this aspect via Oline. He seemed to want to sign cheap and draft cheap initially and it didn't work. I agree he has shifted to drafting earlier but it hasn't had success, that's why the draft is considered more of a risk and why many were hoping we wouldn't be heading into the draft somehow WORSE than last year when we have been bad at this spot for 5+ now. I don't think we have ever aggressively tried to solve it in the same manner at all he has tried to cheap out in FA then use draft picks which hasn't been working but seems to be what we will keep doing anyways.

    I think it has to be the GM. He has opportunities to handle this prior to draft and chooses not to, that's on Rick. If he is getting poor guidance then those individuals shouldn't be trusted at draft time. If anything the one area I would give him leeway on is CB though as I am not sure if Zimmer is picking those guys early in drafts or not but it hasn't worked out for CB's either we have used so much capital for it to have still been a big need. I don't overly disagree with those ideas but I don't think that Guards/interior oline doesn't matter and I think that's where we have continuously failed to address it. Obviously we need an LT now too so it isn't just interior but generally the issue is cheaping out there while having no ability to draft it.

    I would rather take guard at 14 at this point than continue to fail and suck at putting together an OL. I am not saying it is wisest but as we have noted there is major help needed so if we make it a focus of the draft and the OT's are gone we will be limited in what we can do. We still need at least 2 starters and while the draft is deeper I don't trust basically any rookie we choose coming in so if it's going to be all rookies we better pick one in the first, 3rd and 4th at the very least. This is what I was getting at about the mock drafts etc. is if the plan is actually fixing oline in draft then we will be using a lot of early capital there and not other positions.

  2. #1577
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    2021 Free Agency and Trade Discussion Thread

    Like lets just go back to when he was made GM and look at the draft capital spent on CB (need 3 starters) compared to Oline (need 5 starters) since coming on board:

    CB's rounds 1:
    Josh Robinson (3)
    Rhodes (1)
    Waynes (1)
    Alexander (2)
    Hughes (1)
    Gladney (1)
    Dantzler (3)

    OL rounds 1-3:
    Khalil (1)
    Elflein (3)
    Oneal (2)
    Bradbury (1)
    Cleveland (2)

    So we have used more draft capital to fill less spots needed at CB over the years and part of what you were telling me on our need to spend this offseason was that we had other areas to fill like CB. I am not saying it wasn't a need but the reason we keep having "more important" areas to fill than Oline each offseason is mishandling at other positions and continuing to invest highly elsewhere. It's not like we couldn't have been investing in Oline in multiple ways either with these picks or money sent to Peterson it is that we always choose filling other holes/have other holes that Speilman will always consider more necessary to fill. CB seemed like a more obvious example but when you have 5 starting spots needed and invest 2 1sts, 2 2nds a 3rd there while essentially having signed one solid FA over that span that is now cut (Rieff) I am not sure what else you can overly expect (especially knowing not every draft pick will hit). At CB we have spent 4 first, a 2nd and two 3rds and still used our cap this year to sign another and that's just for 3 starting spots.

    The issue is Rick is constantly creating holes then filling them in but not with tons of talent just stop gap and recently it's been by pushing cap down the road especially since Kirk. We invest huge $ in QB/RB and I just outlined our approach to CB. Dline we have had two big signings the last two year, we have Hunter, and people still want to use a 1st to fill out that last spot (despite depth like Weatherly/Wonnum and obviously we used to have Griffen). When I mention Kirk's contract etc elsewhere this is part of why you need to allocate resources in a smart way or else you won't have enough to complete the roster. We keep having issues completing the roster and Oline is the constant issue even if there are often a couple others as well. I think the overall way we allocate resources puts a low priority on Oline compared to something like CB and it often shows, that CB also sucked last year and can be argued as needed priority this year over oline may be true but its part of that bigger picture/issue in our approach towards oline and using (misusing) other assets then.

    If the issue isn't about being aggressive in general then the issue should be about an inability of Rick to use resources in the best way and either way this is on him letting the issue last so long when it comes to oline, I think it's clearly how he prioritizes assets. We are "aggressive" towards position like CB and it is still a major need despite that so we keep being aggressive which limits us elsewhere and oline is always the one seemingly not taken care of year after year. We wanted a QB we overpayed for Kirk with huge $ (after firsts in teddy/sam). We are aggressive at times sure but the ways we are aggressive/using so many assets in some areas is creating holes in others (oline) is the problem then if looking at it that way but the end point is Rick is the main culprit/decision maker to be held responsible how we are using the assets across the board.
    Last edited by mngopher35; 04-25-2021 at 08:19 PM.

  3. #1578
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    And out of those CB's likely only going to be Dantzler and Alexander (though he left and came back). Now that's not good.

  4. #1579
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    I will argue that Rhodes was really good and injuries eventually just forced our hand. Waynes was solid, maybe not as high as we picked him but he was solid for us.

  5. #1580
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacofunk64 View Post
    And out of those CB's likely only going to be Dantzler and Alexander (though he left and came back). Now that's not good.
    Quote Originally Posted by pacofunk64 View Post
    I will argue that Rhodes was really good and injuries eventually just forced our hand. Waynes was solid, maybe not as high as we picked him but he was solid for us.
    Well the point is we have invested all of that capital and in the end we let those guys walk given they weren't worth it for us anymore and keep needing to reinvest. We got some value out of the picks don't get that wrong but the point was to show what it is actually like when you are aggressive towards filling a position. The problem is if you need to keep that up over the years AND still need to use a good chunk of your very limited cap for the same position like we did this year... Well we are talking about only 3 starting spots on the field so now something elsewhere has to give. We can't pretend like we are aggressive in filling needs when the main need we have had largely hasn't been tackled in remotely the same way. We are maybe aggressive in general/towards certain positions but it is in a way that is actually causing this lack of resources for oline.

    It's always Oline that gets screwed over aka we haven't had any stretch where we had a good oline but then it disappeared and we revamped it in remotely the same way as we have CB. We don't go out and spend multiple firsts in a short span then spend massive money to overpay a single position like QB. We invest more than most in the RB position as well. I think the CB's make it look a little worse because despite all that capital used in like the last 9 seasons and only 1 of them is a projected started we did not just sign off another team in FA. It's just overall these other "aggressive" moves are costing us when it comes to filling out the roster then.

  6. #1581
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    So we've not been hearing anything regarding Danielle Hunter's contract....do we know anything about whether he's still unhappy or whether they're working on a new deal for him? I mean given he just missed the entire season it's an odd time, but will he force the issue anyway?
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  7. #1582
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    So we've not been hearing anything regarding Danielle Hunter's contract....do we know anything about whether he's still unhappy or whether they're working on a new deal for him? I mean given he just missed the entire season it's an odd time, but will he force the issue anyway?
    Yeah Doogie reported that Hunter met with I believe Andre Patterson. Sounds like it was a good convo. Doogie believes at some point the Vikings will address Hunter's contract and he'll be sticking around.
    2021 Vikings Draft:
    1: Christian Darrisaw OT Virginia Tech
    3: Kellen Mond QB Texas A&M
    3: Chazz Surratt LB North Carolina
    3: Wyatt Davis G Ohio State
    3: Patrick Jones III DE Pittsburgh
    4: Kene Nwangwu RB Iowa State
    4: Camryn Bynum S California
    4: Janarius Robinson DE Florida State
    5: Ihmir Smith-Marsette WR Iowa
    5: Zach Davidson TE Central Missouri St.
    6: Jaylen Twyman DT Pittsburgh

  8. #1583
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    Like lets just go back to when he was made GM and look at the draft capital spent on CB (need 3 starters) compared to Oline (need 5 starters) since coming on board:

    CB's rounds 1:
    Josh Robinson (3)
    Rhodes (1)
    Waynes (1)
    Alexander (2)
    Hughes (1)
    Gladney (1)
    Dantzler (3)

    OL rounds 1-3:
    Khalil (1)
    Elflein (3)
    Oneal (2)
    Bradbury (1)
    Cleveland (2)

    So we have used more draft capital to fill less spots needed at CB over the years and part of what you were telling me on our need to spend this offseason was that we had other areas to fill like CB. I am not saying it wasn't a need but the reason we keep having "more important" areas to fill than Oline each offseason is mishandling at other positions and continuing to invest highly elsewhere. It's not like we couldn't have been investing in Oline in multiple ways either with these picks or money sent to Peterson it is that we always choose filling other holes/have other holes that Speilman will always consider more necessary to fill. CB seemed like a more obvious example but when you have 5 starting spots needed and invest 2 1sts, 2 2nds a 3rd there while essentially having signed one solid FA over that span that is now cut (Rieff) I am not sure what else you can overly expect (especially knowing not every draft pick will hit). At CB we have spent 4 first, a 2nd and two 3rds and still used our cap this year to sign another and that's just for 3 starting spots.

    The issue is Rick is constantly creating holes then filling them in but not with tons of talent just stop gap and recently it's been by pushing cap down the road especially since Kirk. We invest huge $ in QB/RB and I just outlined our approach to CB. Dline we have had two big signings the last two year, we have Hunter, and people still want to use a 1st to fill out that last spot (despite depth like Weatherly/Wonnum and obviously we used to have Griffen). When I mention Kirk's contract etc elsewhere this is part of why you need to allocate resources in a smart way or else you won't have enough to complete the roster. We keep having issues completing the roster and Oline is the constant issue even if there are often a couple others as well. I think the overall way we allocate resources puts a low priority on Oline compared to something like CB and it often shows, that CB also sucked last year and can be argued as needed priority this year over oline may be true but its part of that bigger picture/issue in our approach towards oline and using (misusing) other assets then.

    If the issue isn't about being aggressive in general then the issue should be about an inability of Rick to use resources in the best way and either way this is on him letting the issue last so long when it comes to oline, I think it's clearly how he prioritizes assets. We are "aggressive" towards position like CB and it is still a major need despite that so we keep being aggressive which limits us elsewhere and oline is always the one seemingly not taken care of year after year. We wanted a QB we overpayed for Kirk with huge $ (after firsts in teddy/sam). We are aggressive at times sure but the ways we are aggressive/using so many assets in some areas is creating holes in others (oline) is the problem then if looking at it that way but the end point is Rick is the main culprit/decision maker to be held responsible how we are using the assets across the board.


    i fully expect the vikes to trade back and add a couple 2nd rounders eventualy taking the g from usc. i expect them to sign fisher once healthy and take a de and a safty in rnd 2 maybe a lot of trading this year. ok i say that every year and rick dont usualy start trading till rnd 3 or 4. but their could be another hunter or diggs in this draft. looks like the vikes cb could escape with little or no punnishment from the law .last i heard no actual charges had been filed. he better grow up is all i can say if he gets off.

  9. #1584
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    Quote Originally Posted by tripleplayer543 View Post
    i fully expect the vikes to trade back and add a couple 2nd rounders eventualy taking the g from usc. i expect them to sign fisher once healthy and take a de and a safty in rnd 2 maybe a lot of trading this year. ok i say that every year and rick dont usualy start trading till rnd 3 or 4. but their could be another hunter or diggs in this draft. looks like the vikes cb could escape with little or no punnishment from the law .last i heard no actual charges had been filed. he better grow up is all i can say if he gets off.

    I agree, I think they will make a short phone call to Cincy and Miami who seem to be locks for Sewell and Slater and will try to trade back. I really don't think we will take AVT or Darrisaw at #14 and the DE pool is gonna consolidate at the end of Rd 1.

    I would really invest time in Working the Dolphins, Jags, and Ravens. Whoever can give a mid 20 pick and a top rd 2 selection.

    Baltimore #27 & 31 (1280) for #14 & 119 (1156) I actually feel like Ravens will trade both those picks for Julio Jones before the end of round 1 Thursday but if there is a WR Waddle or Smith at #14 I think they may bite.

    Jags #25 & #45 (1170) for #14 (1100) Potentially the same deal. Jacksonville could covet on of the OL left on the board or want to pair Lawrence up with a premier WR. Could be a potential are for Micah Parsons as well if he slides.

    Dolphins #36 & 50 & 81 (1165) for #14 (1100) This would be a RICK trade on roids but I wouldn't hate it. Dolphins trade their 2nd and 3rd round choices for the chance to pick #6-14-18. Maybe they throw in a future 2nd/3rd as well.
    This trade would make our first pick in Round 2 but we would have
    picks 36-50-78-81-90. I'll take 5 of the top 90 players in this draft all day. Once out of round 1 I think Rick could use his 4-7th rounders to maneuver for whoever is falling.

    Man I can't wait till Thursday. My only fear is they are going to try and trade down and fail and we will see a panic pick like Paye or Ojulari at #14.

  10. #1585
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Jorge 69 View Post
    I agree, I think they will make a short phone call to Cincy and Miami who seem to be locks for Sewell and Slater and will try to trade back. I really don't think we will take AVT or Darrisaw at #14 and the DE pool is gonna consolidate at the end of Rd 1.

    I would really invest time in Working the Dolphins, Jags, and Ravens. Whoever can give a mid 20 pick and a top rd 2 selection.

    Baltimore #27 & 31 (1280) for #14 & 119 (1156) I actually feel like Ravens will trade both those picks for Julio Jones before the end of round 1 Thursday but if there is a WR Waddle or Smith at #14 I think they may bite.

    Jags #25 & #45 (1170) for #14 (1100) Potentially the same deal. Jacksonville could covet on of the OL left on the board or want to pair Lawrence up with a premier WR. Could be a potential are for Micah Parsons as well if he slides.

    Dolphins #36 & 50 & 81 (1165) for #14 (1100) This would be a RICK trade on roids but I wouldn't hate it. Dolphins trade their 2nd and 3rd round choices for the chance to pick #6-14-18. Maybe they throw in a future 2nd/3rd as well.
    This trade would make our first pick in Round 2 but we would have
    picks 36-50-78-81-90. I'll take 5 of the top 90 players in this draft all day. Once out of round 1 I think Rick could use his 4-7th rounders to maneuver for whoever is falling.

    Man I can't wait till Thursday. My only fear is they are going to try and trade down and fail and we will see a panic pick like Paye or Ojulari at #14.
    A trade back is a high probability but no way Rick is trading out of the first round. He's talked before how valuable it is to have that 5th year option.
    2021 Vikings Draft:
    1: Christian Darrisaw OT Virginia Tech
    3: Kellen Mond QB Texas A&M
    3: Chazz Surratt LB North Carolina
    3: Wyatt Davis G Ohio State
    3: Patrick Jones III DE Pittsburgh
    4: Kene Nwangwu RB Iowa State
    4: Camryn Bynum S California
    4: Janarius Robinson DE Florida State
    5: Ihmir Smith-Marsette WR Iowa
    5: Zach Davidson TE Central Missouri St.
    6: Jaylen Twyman DT Pittsburgh

  11. #1586
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Jorge 69 View Post
    I agree, I think they will make a short phone call to Cincy and Miami who seem to be locks for Sewell and Slater and will try to trade back. I really don't think we will take AVT or Darrisaw at #14 and the DE pool is gonna consolidate at the end of Rd 1.

    I would really invest time in Working the Dolphins, Jags, and Ravens. Whoever can give a mid 20 pick and a top rd 2 selection.

    Baltimore #27 & 31 (1280) for #14 & 119 (1156) I actually feel like Ravens will trade both those picks for Julio Jones before the end of round 1 Thursday but if there is a WR Waddle or Smith at #14 I think they may bite.

    Jags #25 & #45 (1170) for #14 (1100) Potentially the same deal. Jacksonville could covet on of the OL left on the board or want to pair Lawrence up with a premier WR. Could be a potential are for Micah Parsons as well if he slides.

    Dolphins #36 & 50 & 81 (1165) for #14 (1100) This would be a RICK trade on roids but I wouldn't hate it. Dolphins trade their 2nd and 3rd round choices for the chance to pick #6-14-18. Maybe they throw in a future 2nd/3rd as well.
    This trade would make our first pick in Round 2 but we would have
    picks 36-50-78-81-90. I'll take 5 of the top 90 players in this draft all day. Once out of round 1 I think Rick could use his 4-7th rounders to maneuver for whoever is falling.

    Man I can't wait till Thursday. My only fear is they are going to try and trade down and fail and we will see a panic pick like Paye or Ojulari at #14.
    Agree completely. Drafting Paye at 14 would be a terrible waste of the pick. I really like all 3 of the trade proposals. I hadnít thought about Julio to BAL before you mentioned it but it seems like a perfect fit.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  12. #1587
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    seeing that i live in central ill last night i was watching the nfl draft. and minuets after the bears made their trade my power went out someone who i will call a bears fan must have been driving and started celebrating the pick and hit POWER POLE so i missed the vikings trade and picks. power came back on at 5 ;30 am this morning . lol

  13. #1588
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    Quote Originally Posted by tripleplayer543 View Post
    seeing that i live in central ill last night i was watching the nfl draft. and minuets after the bears made their trade my power went out someone who i will call a bears fan must have been driving and started celebrating the pick and hit POWER POLE so i missed the vikings trade and picks. power came back on at 5 ;30 am this morning . lol
    Sorry about that. I was driving down your street tongue kissing Nicole Murphy and I hit a light pole. I take full responsibility 😁


    V4LB-DIMGIM-VCU-CUBBY JOE AND GOINGFOR28

  14. #1589
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    if you say so lmmfao.

  15. #1590
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    2021 Free Agency and Trade Discussion Thread

    Doogie tweeted the Vikings inquired about Atkins a few weeks ago. He said their still talking to free agents.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by vikingsfan0845; 05-02-2021 at 09:27 PM.
    2021 Vikings Draft:
    1: Christian Darrisaw OT Virginia Tech
    3: Kellen Mond QB Texas A&M
    3: Chazz Surratt LB North Carolina
    3: Wyatt Davis G Ohio State
    3: Patrick Jones III DE Pittsburgh
    4: Kene Nwangwu RB Iowa State
    4: Camryn Bynum S California
    4: Janarius Robinson DE Florida State
    5: Ihmir Smith-Marsette WR Iowa
    5: Zach Davidson TE Central Missouri St.
    6: Jaylen Twyman DT Pittsburgh

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