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  1. #1471
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikingsfan0845 View Post
    IMO, the narrative of ignoring the OL is completely wrong. Like you said, look at the amount of high draft picks this FO has invested into the OL. Plus handing out big contracts to Reiff and Remmers.

    The real issue is the scouting/evaluation of these players. We took Bradbury in the 1st round but other centers like Elgton Jenkins and Erik McCoy have been much better players. We traded up for Pat Elflein and he was a miss. All of the mid to late round lineman we picked never amounted to anything. The best one lately has been Oli Udoh and Fusco was only good for about 2 years. Fusco was picked 10 years ago too. Cleveland might still be good but what I read on twitter from OL experts all suggest he should be playing tackle, not guard. O'Neill is really the only player we can say was a hit.
    You would think with their clear inability to scout, evaluate and develop offensive linemen they would go out and sign some high quality proven ones, right? The FO hasn't done that outside of maybe Reiff (I don't really consider him high quality but some might). Now it appears, if they don't completely ignore the offensive line, they will be drafting more linemen and doing the very same thing they have done year in and year out which hasn't worked.
    https://orig00.deviantart.net/1dc3/f/2018/078/e/e/cousins_by_matthew998-dc6cc8l.png

  2. #1472
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    Quote Originally Posted by VCU4LIFEGOVIKS View Post
    You would think with their clear inability to scout, evaluate and develop offensive linemen they would go out and sign some high quality proven ones, right? The FO hasn't done that outside of maybe Reiff (I don't really consider him high quality but some might). Now it appears, if they don't completely ignore the offensive line, they will be drafting more linemen and doing the very same thing they have done year in and year out which hasn't worked.
    Well at least this draft is absolutely loaded with OL prospects. I posted this in the draft thread but Dane Brugler has 9 OT's, 6 guards, 3 centers with grades in the first 2 rounds and a bunch more with 3rd and 4th round grades. If we can't find at least 1 starting caliber lineman this year.....

    The depth of this OL class at least helps me understand a little why they haven't signed more OL so far. Although I prefer to go the route the Bills do when it comes to filling out their OL.

    I still do believe we're going to make one more FA splash. My guess is it's going to be an OT but if we pick one in the first round then maybe we go after Clowney instead. I'll be stunned if we don't use up more our cap space.
    2020 Vikings Draft:
    1: Justin Jefferson WR LSU
    1: Jeff Gladney CB TCU
    2: Ezra Cleveland OT Boise State
    3: Cameron Dantzler CB Mississippi State
    4: D.J. Wonnum DE South Carolina
    4: James Lynch DT Baylor
    4: Troy Dye LB Oregon
    5: Harrison Hand CB Temple
    5: K.J. Osborn WR Miami
    6: Blake Brandel OT Oregon State
    6: Josh Metellus S Michigan
    7: Kenny Willekes DE Michigan State
    7: Nate Stanley QB Iowa
    7: Brian Cole S Mississippi State
    7: Kyle Hinton G Washburn

  3. #1473
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikingsfan0845 View Post
    Well at least this draft is absolutely loaded with OL prospects. I posted this in the draft thread but Dane Brugler has 9 OT's, 6 guards, 3 centers with grades in the first 2 rounds and a bunch more with 3rd and 4th round grades. If we can't find at least 1 starting caliber lineman this year.....

    The depth of this OL class at least helps me understand a little why they haven't signed more OL so far. Although I prefer to go the route the Bills do when it comes to filling out their OL.

    I still do believe we're going to make one more FA splash. My guess is it's going to be an OT but if we pick one in the first round then maybe we go after Clowney instead. I'll be stunned if we don't use up more our cap space.
    Even if the draft is loaded with OL prospects, the likely hood and the FOs lack of previous success drafting OL would suggest we will not be successful in filling those major holes through the draft. That's the problem. The FO is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Albert Einstein classified that as the definition of insanity.
    https://orig00.deviantart.net/1dc3/f/2018/078/e/e/cousins_by_matthew998-dc6cc8l.png

  4. #1474
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikingsfan0845 View Post
    Well at least this draft is absolutely loaded with OL prospects. I posted this in the draft thread but Dane Brugler has 9 OT's, 6 guards, 3 centers with grades in the first 2 rounds and a bunch more with 3rd and 4th round grades. If we can't find at least 1 starting caliber lineman this year.....

    The depth of this OL class at least helps me understand a little why they haven't signed more OL so far. Although I prefer to go the route the Bills do when it comes to filling out their OL.

    I still do believe we're going to make one more FA splash. My guess is it's going to be an OT but if we pick one in the first round then maybe we go after Clowney instead. I'll be stunned if we don't use up more our cap space.

    The other issue to consider is that we don't have a round 2 pick. Yes there are a total of 18 players Brugler has rated. However, if the Vikings don't go tackle with their first pick those 18 players won't see our next pick at #78. Maybe 1... Maybe.

  5. #1475
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    Quote Originally Posted by VCU4LIFEGOVIKS View Post
    Even if the draft is loaded with OL prospects, the likely hood and the FOs lack of previous success drafting OL would suggest we will not be successful in filling those major holes through the draft. That's the problem. The FO is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Albert Einstein classified that as the definition of insanity.
    I don't agree with that. The last few years have shown a drastic change in drafting. From 2011-2017 the highest OL drafted were Matt Kalil (4th overall 2012) and Pat Elflein (70th overall 2017). 68 players were drafted during those years and only 2 were taken in the first 3 rounds. 1 taken in the first 2 rounds. 46 players were picked between Kalil and Elflein without a single one being a high pick.

    The last 3 drafts show a change. 3 straight years we've used a first or second round pick on OL. All 3 are currently our best lineman. Last year after the draft it was reported Rick tried to trade up with Tampa to get Wirfs but Tampa wanted him too. It's looking like this trend is going to continue this year.
    2020 Vikings Draft:
    1: Justin Jefferson WR LSU
    1: Jeff Gladney CB TCU
    2: Ezra Cleveland OT Boise State
    3: Cameron Dantzler CB Mississippi State
    4: D.J. Wonnum DE South Carolina
    4: James Lynch DT Baylor
    4: Troy Dye LB Oregon
    5: Harrison Hand CB Temple
    5: K.J. Osborn WR Miami
    6: Blake Brandel OT Oregon State
    6: Josh Metellus S Michigan
    7: Kenny Willekes DE Michigan State
    7: Nate Stanley QB Iowa
    7: Brian Cole S Mississippi State
    7: Kyle Hinton G Washburn

  6. #1476
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Jorge 69 View Post
    The other issue to consider is that we don't have a round 2 pick. Yes there are a total of 18 players Brugler has rated. However, if the Vikings don't go tackle with their first pick those 18 players won't see our next pick at #78. Maybe 1... Maybe.
    That's if we don't trade up. We have plenty of ammo to convince a team like Seattle to trade back with us.

    Using his top 100 players and our current picks this is what we'll be looking at if we stay at 78 and 90:

    80. Aaron Banks G ND
    83. James Hudson T Cin
    84. Kendrick Green C Illinois
    89. D'Ante Smith T East Carolina
    90. Stone Forsythe T Florida
    92. Jackson Carman T/G Clemson
    99. Trey Smith G Tennessee
    100. Spencer Brown T Northern Iowa
    2020 Vikings Draft:
    1: Justin Jefferson WR LSU
    1: Jeff Gladney CB TCU
    2: Ezra Cleveland OT Boise State
    3: Cameron Dantzler CB Mississippi State
    4: D.J. Wonnum DE South Carolina
    4: James Lynch DT Baylor
    4: Troy Dye LB Oregon
    5: Harrison Hand CB Temple
    5: K.J. Osborn WR Miami
    6: Blake Brandel OT Oregon State
    6: Josh Metellus S Michigan
    7: Kenny Willekes DE Michigan State
    7: Nate Stanley QB Iowa
    7: Brian Cole S Mississippi State
    7: Kyle Hinton G Washburn

  7. #1477
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikingsfan0845 View Post
    I don't agree with that. The last few years have shown a drastic change in drafting. From 2011-2017 the highest OL drafted were Matt Kalil (4th overall 2012) and Pat Elflein (70th overall 2017). 68 players were drafted during those years and only 2 were taken in the first 3 rounds. 1 taken in the first 2 rounds. 46 players were picked between Kalil and Elflein without a single one being a high pick.

    The last 3 drafts show a change. 3 straight years we've used a first or second round pick on OL. All 3 are currently our best lineman. Last year after the draft it was reported Rick tried to trade up with Tampa to get Wirfs but Tampa wanted him too. It's looking like this trend is going to continue this year.
    How's that change working out for us though? Also, saying those are our best three linemen isn't saying very much. The team graded out as the 28th best pass blocking unit. I will say that Brian O'Neill is by far the best out of the bunch but Ezra Cleveland’s 6.9% pressure rate allowed ranked 37th out of 40 qualifying right guards and Garrett Bradbury’s 5.1% pressure rate allowed ranked 34th out of 36 qualifying centers last year. That's just not good. Like I said, Rick is drafting OL but he is not being very successful with that strategy. Maybe a switch to T for Cleveland and another year of playing will help them both but that has yet to be seen. I certainly hope it does though.

    Yay! Rick almost traded up with Tampa. He tried! Good for him. Unfortunately almosts don't help this team get closer to winning a Super Bowl.
    https://orig00.deviantart.net/1dc3/f/2018/078/e/e/cousins_by_matthew998-dc6cc8l.png

  8. #1478
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    We have 2 3rds and 4 4ths....even without trading down in the 1st there's a high probability we'll use some of that capital to get a 2nd. The only question is where and to target who (which we'd be determining on the fly or after Day 1 is in the books)

    So, to me, we can realistically look at who we might take in the 2nd round. If that's the round we go OL, how soon are guys like Radunz, Cozmi, and Leatherwood off the board? Do we target G or T? Depending on the capital needed to get into the 2nd do we go OL in both the 2nd and the 3rd? 2nd and 4th? Or is Zim gonna be pounding the table for more D....like Jevon Holland in the 3rd, a guy who was projected possibly late 1st but has somehow dropped despite not even playing last season, opting out.

    Is our WR3 in the draft? And when would that be our target...and who are candidates?
    Guys like Marshall will go higher than we'd likely be looking WR, but might someone like Toney be there if we went WR in the 3rd?
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  9. #1479
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    Quote Originally Posted by VCU4LIFEGOVIKS View Post
    How's that change working out for us though? Also, saying those are our best three linemen isn't saying very much. The team graded out as the 28th best pass blocking unit. I will say that Brian O'Neill is by far the best out of the bunch but Ezra Cleveland’s 6.9% pressure rate allowed ranked 37th out of 40 qualifying right guards and Garrett Bradbury’s 5.1% pressure rate allowed ranked 34th out of 36 qualifying centers last year. That's just not good. Like I said, Rick is drafting OL but he is not being very successful with that strategy. Maybe a switch to T for Cleveland and another year of playing will help them both but that has yet to be seen. I certainly hope it does though.

    Yay! Rick almost traded up with Tampa. He tried! Good for him. Unfortunately almosts don't help this team get closer to winning a Super Bowl.
    Question re Bradbury- is part of the reason he's not graded that well due to the fact there's been a revolving door of meh on either side of him?

    It's also hard to really grade Ezra yet- kid was a rookie and we played him at 2-3 positions. I'm assuming they were planning on him at LT when they spent a 2nd to get him, but either way, make a decision on where you're putting him and leave him there.

    I'd agree, though...we've had our 'almosts', we've had our bad lucks...don't matter, we are where we are and we know our QB is considerably better when the line is holding up. If I never see Kirk running at a 45 degree angle to his right and away from the line of scrimmage again I'll be a happy man.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  10. #1480
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    Question re Bradbury- is part of the reason he's not graded that well due to the fact there's been a revolving door of meh on either side of him?

    It's also hard to really grade Ezra yet- kid was a rookie and we played him at 2-3 positions. I'm assuming they were planning on him at LT when they spent a 2nd to get him, but either way, make a decision on where you're putting him and leave him there.


    I'd agree, though...we've had our 'almosts', we've had our bad lucks...don't matter, we are where we are and we know our QB is considerably better when the line is holding up. If I never see Kirk running at a 45 degree angle to his right and away from the line of scrimmage again I'll be a happy man.
    It certainly could be. The only way to really find out will be to get some good guards on either side of him. Unfortunately that has yet to be addressed.

    I'm sure that didn't help Ezra either. The coaching staff definitely didn't do him any favors by moving him around so much. For some reason this team thinks offensive linemen are interchangeable and can/should play every position along the line. Hasn't been working out too well for us and I'm sure that philosophy won't change.
    https://orig00.deviantart.net/1dc3/f/2018/078/e/e/cousins_by_matthew998-dc6cc8l.png

  11. #1481
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    Quote Originally Posted by VCU4LIFEGOVIKS View Post
    It certainly could be. The only way to really find out will be to get some good guards on either side of him. Unfortunately that has yet to be addressed.

    I'm sure that didn't help Ezra either. The coaching staff definitely didn't do him any favors by moving him around so much. For some reason this team thinks offensive linemen are interchangeable and can/should play every position along the line. Hasn't been working out too well for us and I'm sure that philosophy won't change.
    To me the whole philosophy is Bull ****. What are the criteria we see for Vikings Linemen
    1: Fast (who gives a **** they run 4 yards a play)
    2: Undersized (Lighter guys run faster and we know how bad the run blocking was for AP when our entire OLINE where big 6-4+ 300lb+ goons)
    3: Run blockers for Scheme fit (we have one of the best RBs in football, not because of our oline so we don't need the best run blocking Oline in football)
    4: Coming off injury and 2-3 years remove from an above average season (Money will not be spend on guaranteed performance but the diamond in the rough)
    5: Positions are for squares (Why develop you to play tackle when you could play 4 other positions you've never tried)
    6: DON'T TRUST ANYONE AUSTIN 3:16 (In the last year we drafted a LT and put him at OG where he performed exactly like a tackle playing guard. We had a battle for LG and CUT the guy who didn't win the starting job immediately before the season started. How the hell can you be battling for a starting position for 8 weeks and get CUT instead of being a backup. Then we CUT our starting LT who played his best season for Money we actually have to afford him)


    I have all the faith in the world that our passing game will Flourish and it is imperative that we provide upgrades our run blocking so Cook can actually produce some yard this season. Because as I have always said, if your LT is better at pass blocking than runblocking you will only average the same ****ing amount of yards rushing.

  12. #1482
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikingsfan0845 View Post
    That's if we don't trade up. We have plenty of ammo to convince a team like Seattle to trade back with us.

    Using his top 100 players and our current picks this is what we'll be looking at if we stay at 78 and 90:

    80. Aaron Banks G ND
    83. James Hudson T Cin
    84. Kendrick Green C Illinois
    89. D'Ante Smith T East Carolina
    90. Stone Forsythe T Florida
    92. Jackson Carman T/G Clemson
    99. Trey Smith G Tennessee
    100. Spencer Brown T Northern Iowa
    Jackson Carmon and Spencer Brown intrigue me. Carmon is big and nasty and sounds like he would be best at guard. Brown just seems like he would slide right in at RT.

  13. #1483
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacofunk64 View Post
    Jackson Carmon and Spencer Brown intrigue me. Carmon is big and nasty and sounds like he would be best at guard. Brown just seems like he would slide right in at RT.
    i see the cousins rumors are still floating about. the vikes sending cousins to sf for picks one of then the #3 pick but it will take more to get this deal done. 9 ers trading jimmie g to ne for one or two picks and maybe a 2nd from sf IF they get the 3 pick they could get a few good picks from denver and move back from 14 and add a second and 4th get a future qb an ot or g and if they get ne's 1 st to grab a de , cb or s

  14. #1484
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    Quote Originally Posted by tripleplayer543 View Post
    i see the cousins rumors are still floating about. the vikes sending cousins to sf for picks one of then the #3 pick but it will take more to get this deal done. 9 ers trading jimmie g to ne for one or two picks and maybe a 2nd from sf IF they get the 3 pick they could get a few good picks from denver and move back from 14 and add a second and 4th get a future qb an ot or g and if they get ne's 1 st to grab a de , cb or s
    Run with the Cousins to SF trade where we end up with the #3 (and SF our 14 I assume).....which QB are you taking that you think could step right in and start from Day 1? Because that's about the only way it's logical...unless you want to use some of the cap space created to sign a guy like Ryan Fitzpatrick or trade for Teddy or something as a stop gap
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  15. #1485
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    Run with the Cousins to SF trade where we end up with the #3 (and SF our 14 I assume).....which QB are you taking that you think could step right in and start from Day 1? Because that's about the only way it's logical...unless you want to use some of the cap space created to sign a guy like Ryan Fitzpatrick or trade for Teddy or something as a stop gap
    Fitz is with Washington. I would be cool with them trading cousins for 3 but #14 wouldn't be part of the deal. It seems to me the 49ers traded a ton of picks for #3 just to realize the guy they want is 100% going to the Jets. Maybe when they made the trade NY was sending strong signals of committing to Darnold or another player but it sounds like the 49ers trade brought out the truth and Jets all but said Wilson is the future.

    I don't know why we would give them #14 if they are now desperate to get Kirk instead of the Qbs that are there at #3. Maybe I would give Kirk and 2022 1st/2nd with the depth at OL so we can solidify Qb and T for the next decade. 49ers paid a steep price for #3 and they can recoup some of that draft capital trading Jimmy and a future 1st from Minny.

    I doubt this rumor has any legs and is just coming back up due to the lack of news in the NFl and leading up the draft but man a big mix up would be exiting. Also, if Lance or Fields were a guy we took then Teddy B is almost guaranteed to get released from carolina and could come home and compete with a Rookie for 1 year.

    The only nightmare scenario would be that we make this trade and take Mac Jones. I'd become a packer fan...
    Last edited by El Jorge 69; 04-10-2021 at 08:59 AM.

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