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  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by steagles View Post
    hagelin won't get 3MM. he has 5 points in 23 games this season, and he'll be 31 next year.
    zuccarello won't get 5+MM. he's on pace for 35 points, he's a -20, and he'll be 32 years old next year.
    eberle might get 5+MM because of his reputation, but he's not getting more than that. he's only on pace for 38 points this year.

    there are a few advantages to signing guys like this:
    1: new blood. hagelin may not be better than raffl, but there's value in bringing fresh eyes, fresh legs, fresh ideas into the locker room.
    2: new playing style. hagelin brings speed. zuccarello brings speed. eberle brings speed. add in frost, and in one fell swoop, we become a completely different team.
    3: buy low; sell high. instead of paying a ransom for a free agent who just had a career year, get someone who's coming off a down year, who might benefit from a new situation, and who has a chance to provide some surplus value if things break right.


    if i'm wrong about the value, just move to the next guy on the list. instead of eberle, johansson. instead of zuccarello, silfverberg. instead of hagelin, lindberg. find the right value, then pounce.


    your plan is to bring back 9 forwards from this season? from the worst season this franchise has had since randy robataille? that's the plan?

    i'm guessing you'll also want to bring back 5 of our 6 defensemen, too, right?


    i'm good with eric staal, but bringing back this colostomy of a roster is a complete non-starter
    yes because realistically that is what is going to happen. We aren't going to sign aging players to try and change things. You literally just called them out for being bad but still want to sign them because they bring speed...
    We need center depth and none of those signings address that-seguin ain't leaving dallas to come here I don't care what the owner says. Hagelin sucks. We can find speed elsewhere.

    If you think we aren't going to bring back hagg, provorov, ghost, sanheim, amac, and possibly gudas then idk what you expect.

    We shouldn't have signed jvr. We could've tried to sign duchene, skinner, panarin, stone in the offseason. Patrick can play the simmonds spot on the powerplay and that can hopefully jump start his confidence.

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by steagles View Post
    hagelin won't get 3MM. he has 5 points in 23 games this season, and he'll be 31 next year.
    zuccarello won't get 5+MM. he's on pace for 35 points, he's a -20, and he'll be 32 years old next year.
    eberle might get 5+MM because of his reputation, but he's not getting more than that. he's only on pace for 38 points this year.

    there are a few advantages to signing guys like this:
    1: new blood. hagelin may not be better than raffl, but there's value in bringing fresh eyes, fresh legs, fresh ideas into the locker room.
    2: new playing style. hagelin brings speed. zuccarello brings speed. eberle brings speed. add in frost, and in one fell swoop, we become a completely different team.
    3: buy low; sell high. instead of paying a ransom for a free agent who just had a career year, get someone who's coming off a down year, who might benefit from a new situation, and who has a chance to provide some surplus value if things break right.


    if i'm wrong about the value, just move to the next guy on the list. instead of eberle, johansson. instead of zuccarello, silfverberg. instead of hagelin, lindberg. find the right value, then pounce.


    your plan is to bring back 9 forwards from this season? from the worst season this franchise has had since randy robataille? that's the plan?

    i'm guessing you'll also want to bring back 5 of our 6 defensemen, too, right?


    i'm good with eric staal, but bringing back this colostomy of a roster is a complete non-starter
    Not too long ago I spent some time looking at the 49 players that played for that 06/07, 56 point flyers team. Boy. Was that a rough season.

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3iverson3 View Post
    yes because realistically that is what is going to happen. We aren't going to sign aging players to try and change things. You literally just called them out for being bad but still want to sign them because they bring speed...
    We need center depth and none of those signings address that-seguin ain't leaving dallas to come here I don't care what the owner says. Hagelin sucks. We can find speed elsewhere.

    If you think we aren't going to bring back hagg, provorov, ghost, sanheim, amac, and possibly gudas then idk what you expect.

    We shouldn't have signed jvr. We could've tried to sign duchene, skinner, panarin, stone in the offseason. Patrick can play the simmonds spot on the powerplay and that can hopefully jump start his confidence.
    If this team doesn't have a good amount of roster turnover, between now and the start of next season, why in the hell was hextall fired?

    *bias for action*

    I'd be shocked, angry, irritated, disappointed and a whole bunch more if this team comes back with less than 4 new faces in the lineup by next season .

  4. #244
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    We need center depth and none of those signings address that-seguin ain't leaving dallas to come here I don't care what the owner says. Hagelin sucks. We can find speed elsewhere.
    if hagelin sucks, lindblom or rubtsov or NAK should be able to take his roster spot away.

    i've been talking about center depth for at least 3 or 4 years now. this is just a short change of pace.
    I'd be shocked, angry, irritated, disappointed and a whole bunch more if this team comes back with less than 4 new faces in the lineup by next season .
    hell, i'll be pissed if we don't come back with 4 new faces in our bottom 6.
    If you think we aren't going to bring back hagg, provorov, ghost, sanheim, amac, and possibly gudas then idk what you expect.
    i expect macdonald to be gone. he'll be an expiring contract.
    i'm on the fence about gudas, but i lean towards cleaning house.
    i think one of those first 4 could be traded/packaged for a 2C or a 2D.
    yes because realistically that is what is going to happen. We aren't going to sign aging players to try and change things. You literally just called them out for being bad but still want to sign them because they bring speed...
    yes.

    that's how you keep costs down in a salary cap era, right.
    it's how you keep free agent contracts to 2 years instead of 5 or 6.

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by steagles View Post
    if hagelin sucks, lindblom or rubtsov or NAK should be able to take his roster spot away.

    i've been talking about center depth for at least 3 or 4 years now. this is just a short change of pace.
    hell, i'll be pissed if we don't come back with 4 new faces in our bottom 6.

    i expect macdonald to be gone. he'll be an expiring contract.
    i'm on the fence about gudas, but i lean towards cleaning house.
    i think one of those first 4 could be traded/packaged for a 2C or a 2D.
    yes.

    that's how you keep costs down in a salary cap era, right.
    it's how you keep free agent contracts to 2 years instead of 5 or 6.
    I'm not opposed to bringing in *some* high-upside, low-risk veterans. I'd just rather not bring in three or four of them.

    Two? Sign me up. Especially if our coach isn't an idiot who refuses to sit veteran players who aren't performing.

    Honestly, if you're going to trade Voracek, I want someone like Quinn Hughes, plus a first, back. You're clearing out the core at that point anyway, so you're better off adding to the new core vs. the old one. Extend the window.

    We're going to lose one of Sanheim or Myers in the expansion draft (unless we trade one beforehand), so we're going to need a replacement.

    I assume Simmonds gets moved for a first or a good prospect (he's still going to score 25-30 goals this season on a bad team).

    If we can get Hughes in the draft (keep on losing boys), then:

    Giroux - Couturier - Konecny
    Panarin - Hughes - Frost
    JVR - Patrick - Zuccarello/Eberle
    Lindblom - Vorobyev - Laughton

    That group is good enough to get it done.

    Provorov - Ghost
    Sanheim - Hughes
    Myers - Hagg/Morin
    Hagg/Morin

    Hart
    Stolarz

    That is good enough to be a playoff team. It isn't always going to be pretty, but that team is good enough.

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3iverson3 View Post
    if we don't get hughes, you still do it?
    Yes. If I'm willing to do OT for Trocheck, I am certainly willing to do it for Sequin. We are talking about one of the top 10 or so centers in the NHL here. Those guys are extremely difficult to get. Seguin+Couturier alrady give you two lines that are 1st line caliber. Let's say it's not you and it's Kakko instead, you just leave Frost at center to center the 3rd line. And there is still Vorobyev and Rubstov biding their time down there to get a shot. There's hardly a reason to not do it. Patrick's ceiling is less than what Seguin or Couturier are now, so why Not?

  7. #247
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    I'm still of the opinion that trading Ghost is the move to make at some point. The expansion draft makes me more so in the "trade ghost" camp.

    Provy, sanheim and Myers are guys that can play in ALL situations. Sure, they dont have the track record of offense that ghost has, but none of them have been given the same opportunity.

    I'm also not saying trade him for the sake of trading him. The value in the trade has to be good/great.

    A defense core of

    Provy
    Sanheim
    Myers
    Xxxxxx
    Hagg
    Gudas
    Morin

    Is still oozing potential.

    If Larson got Hall, what could ghost get on the trade market with his contract this offseason or next?

  8. #248
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    Honestly, if you're going to trade Voracek, I want someone like Quinn Hughes, plus a first, back. You're clearing out the core at that point anyway, so you're better off adding to the new core vs. the old one. Extend the window.
    agreed. that's why i'm not willing to throw someone like frost or patrick into a deal for seguin

    We're going to lose one of Sanheim or Myers in the expansion draft (unless we trade one beforehand), so we're going to need a replacement.
    fun (?) thought experiment:
    myers stays in the AHL all year, making him ineligible for the expansion draft.
    sanheim is traded to VGK for eric brannstrom and nicolas hague
    brannstrom and hague also stay in the AHL all year, making them ineligible for the expansion draft.


    assuming i'm not mistaken about AHL players being exempted this time around, we would have:
    protected: provorov
    protected: ghost
    protected: hagg
    ineligible: myers
    ineligible: brannstrom
    ineligible: hague
    exposed: morin
    exposed: gudas
    I'm not opposed to bringing in *some* high-upside, low-risk veterans. I'd just rather not bring in three or four of them.

    Two? Sign me up. Especially if our coach isn't an idiot who refuses to sit veteran players who aren't performing.
    if you want to change the culture of this team, this locker room, this is what has to happen. two new players won't change the culture. a handful of mismatched parts won't change the culture.

    adding zuccarello: small, fast, skilled
    adding eberle: small, fast, skilled
    adding hagelin: small, fast, ...small
    adding frost: small, fast, skilled
    adding NAK: small, fast, ...fast

    to giroux: small, fast, skilled
    to konecny: small, fast, skilled

    that would be 7 of 8 wings next season who would all play the same style, the same tempo. that forces everyone else to raise their tempo to match.

    instead of patrick slowing down to match simmonds and JVR, he'd have to set his hair on fire to keep up with the pace of zuccarello and konecny. laughton? try not to pull a groin going from two years of playing with weise and lehtera to getting to training camp and seeing you're with NAK and hagelin.

    that's what a culture shift looks like.
    Last edited by steagles; 01-10-2019 at 02:43 PM.

  9. #249
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    why trade sanheim? if youre gunna get brannstrom then trade ghost...similar players. I want to see what this defense is made of when we have all of them in the nhl.

  10. #250
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    If Myers isnt exempt (I don't think he will be)

    You can still protect all four dmen by using the 8 skaters tactic.

    Giroux
    Couts
    Konecny
    Patrick
    Sanheim
    Myers
    Ghost
    Provy

    Hart

    Leave them to choose between a bottom six/bottom pair guy, or a big money forward.

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by txravis12 View Post
    I'm still of the opinion that trading Ghost is the move to make at some point. The expansion draft makes me more so in the "trade ghost" camp.

    Provy, sanheim and Myers are guys that can play in ALL situations. Sure, they dont have the track record of offense that ghost has, but none of them have been given the same opportunity.

    I'm also not saying trade him for the sake of trading him. The value in the trade has to be good/great.

    A defense core of

    Provy
    Sanheim
    Myers
    Xxxxxx
    Hagg
    Gudas
    Morin

    Is still oozing potential.

    If Larson got Hall, what could ghost get on the trade market with his contract this offseason or next?
    If you're dealing with Pete Chiarelli, then Ghost probably gets you Draisaitl. If you're actually living in the real world, Ghost gets you someone like Nylander.

    At the end of the day, <25 year old defensemen with demonstrated 60+ point ability are rare. There are probably 5-7 of them in the NHL today: Ghost, Dahlin, Sergachev, Reilly, Jones, Chabot, etc.

    If you're making a "hockey trade", that would be my ask: a legitimate top-line young forward that is under contract. My ideal target would be someone like Brayden Point, but I doubt TBL parts with him unless h'es completely unreasonable in contract negotiations.

  12. #252
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    are any of the players besides hughes/kakko in the top 5-8 ready to play next year?

  13. #253
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    id like to add tanev to our 4th line instead of raffl. Brings speed, can forecheck really well, kill pk's, and hits

    dzingel is another bottom 6er we can add for some speed. Then add one of nyquist/eberle/zucc

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by steagles View Post
    agreed. that's why i'm not willing to throw someone like frost or patrick into a deal for seguin


    fun (?) thought experiment:
    myers stays in the AHL all year, making him ineligible for the expansion draft.
    sanheim is traded to VGK for eric brannstrom and nicolas hague
    brannstrom and hague also stay in the AHL all year, making them ineligible for the expansion draft.


    assuming i'm not mistaken about AHL players being exempted this time around, we would have:
    protected: provorov
    protected: ghost
    protected: hagg
    ineligible: myers
    ineligible: brannstrom
    ineligible: hague
    exposed: morin
    exposed: gudas

    if you want to change the culture of this team, this locker room, this is what has to happen. two new players won't change the culture. a handful of mismatched parts won't change the culture.

    adding zuccarello: small, fast, skilled
    adding eberle: small, fast, skilled
    adding hagelin: small, fast, ...small
    adding frost: small, fast, skilled
    adding NAK: small, fast, ...fast

    to giroux: small, fast, skilled
    to konecny: small, fast, skilled

    that would be 7 of 8 wings next season who would all play the same style, the same tempo. that forces everyone else to raise their tempo to match.

    instead of patrick slowing down to match simmonds and JVR, he'd have to set his hair on fire to keep up with the pace of zuccarello and konecny. laughton? try not to pull a groin going from two years of playing with weise and lehtera to getting to training camp and seeing you're with NAK and hagelin.

    that's what a culture shift looks like.
    I see you are still living in fantasy land. You aren't getting Seguin without trading a young center with the potential to grow into a #1 center and Sanheim has nowhere near the kind of track record needed to land 2 prospects of the caliber of Branstrom and Hague. You are more likely to get one or the other+a small add. 23 pts in 92 career games does not vault him to that status.

    You don't get to in one breath trash the roster and then act like all these pieces are going to net some amazing return. Would you trade Frost+Farabee for Dylan Strome? Yeah me neither. That is basically what you are asking Vegas to do by sending two A level prospects for a young NHL player that hasn't quite broken through yet.

  15. #255
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    Here's a realistic scenario that could actually happen: Considering that Columbus has a mess on their hands in contract negotiations with Bob and Panarin and still trying to makes a playoff push, suppose they offer Panarin for Voracek at the deadline? With the caveat that there is no guarantee that Panarin would sign with the Flyers of course. Are you taking that call and accepting?

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