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  1. #226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace23 View Post
    I'm looking at Provorov (especially) as someone in the Tier 1. I understand your reasoning, but a legitimate, 21-year-old #1 defenseman is not something that comes along often. We are fortunate to have a guy in Provy who does have Norris-caliber upside. I'm not trading him, unless EDM is offering McDavid.

    I don't feel compelled to include Laughton in the same category as Myers, Patrick & Sanheim - if someone comes calling for him, I'm listening.

    I'm also including Giroux in the "tier-1" assets, simply because (1) he has a full NMC and (2) he's the face of the franchise. I want Giroux to retire a Flyer.

    I do have a concern about JVR - we just signed him. Doesn't look good to trade someone you just signed.
    all of these. As long as simmonds is traded, we have a use for JVR. If someone offers decent value for laughton im for sure taking the deal. He is expendable as long as we get a center in return or sign one via FA.

  2. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by lambofgode3x View Post
    I'd argue that since we traded Carter for a player who made the roster and a pick that instantly made the roster, that would be a hockey trade. We needed to shake things up and needed a winger that could grow and we needed top talent, which the #8 overall gave us. I guess we just see that a bit differently.

    For the trades listed, I'll give you that (for the most part) those were established players and you traded from strenght for need and you know what you were gonna get. I'll give you that, with the exception of JVR and Schenn. That was a trade that was widely seen as a "get them in new cities to see if they get their game going", which to me is not a hockey trade imo. Yeah, we got a D man that we needed, but he was "unproven" in the eyes of some (even though we here knew he sucked cuz TOR rushed him).

    Sorry if my explanation of this is ******, I'm also in meetings right now.
    The likelihood of a the #8 pick making the team, was slim to none when that trade was made. I highly doubt they anticipated couturiers drop and readiness. However in retrospect it appears to be a hockey trade.


    I look at change of scenery deals as a sub category of hockey trades, when done with NHL players. It's a deliberate attempt to better the NHL product, by using NHL assets. I understand your point though.

  3. #228
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    I'm looking at Provorov (especially) as someone in the Tier 1. I understand your reasoning, but a legitimate, 21-year-old #1 defenseman is not something that comes along often. We are fortunate to have a guy in Provy who does have Norris-caliber upside. I'm not trading him, unless EDM is offering McDavid.

    I don't feel compelled to include Laughton in the same category as Myers, Patrick & Sanheim - if someone comes calling for him, I'm listening.

    I'm also including Giroux in the "tier-1" assets, simply because (1) he has a full NMC and (2) he's the face of the franchise. I want Giroux to retire a Flyer.

    I do have a concern about JVR - we just signed him. Doesn't look good to trade someone you just signed.
    i get all of that. 6 months ago, giroux, provorov and ghost were in my tier 1, too. but the last 6 months happened.


    i'm not sure people here appreciate the seriousness of what's going on this year. the organization has disintegrated, the performance of the team cratered, and a core that's been together for nearly half-a-decade can't find a way to get results. core players are aging past their prime; young players aren't developing; key positions have gone unfilled for years.

    this is what it looks like when a 5-year plan turns into a lost decade.

  4. #229
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    only realistic one is 2 and 3. 2 won't happen because leafs will be in a contract mess soon. 3 sucks for us. 1 and 4 are laughable for the other team. lets just trade voracek for tarasenko too. trading voracek for well established players will be really hard.
    just a quick reminder of what DAL's version of dave scott (i guess?) said about tyler seguin two weeks ago:
    “They are ****ing horse-****, I don’t know how else to put it,” Lites said. “The team was ok. But Seguin and Benn were terrible.”
    ...
    He used to be a pest to play against, people hated playing against Tyler Seguin, they don’t anymore.”

    “These guys have been great players, but we are 40 games into this season and they aren’t getting it done”

  5. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by steagles View Post
    just a quick reminder of what DAL's version of dave scott (i guess?) said about tyler seguin two weeks ago:
    Yea, that's what I'd call him as well.

    I still dont think that results in a 1for1 for Jake.

    That said seguins contract is massive and if they do decide to move on, unlikely considering it doesnt even kick in until next season, they're going to have to take some money and term back. Either that or be willing to retain some salary in order to maximize return.

    Long story short, I could see Jake being a part of a deal for seguin in the offseason.

  6. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by txravis12 View Post
    Yea, that's what I'd call him as well.

    I still dont think that results in a 1for1 for Jake.

    That said seguins contract is massive and if they do decide to move on, unlikely considering it doesnt even kick in until next season, they're going to have to take some money and term back. Either that or be willing to retain some salary in order to maximize return.

    Long story short, I could see Jake being a part of a deal for seguin in the offseason.
    i can't, who would trade voracek for seguin? I mean frost has to be added to that deal and even then dallas would still question themselves as to why that trade benefits there team.

  7. #232
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    Voracek will be a very hard player to move in my opinion and I still think he can be a productive/dominant at times player for us. It would be beneficial to move his contract but we would have to get substantial pieces in return. The return doesn't have to be star players. Freeing his contract would allow us to go after a panarin type player. Other than that I highly doubt voracek is gone, almost a 5% chance if that. all my opinion lol

  8. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by steagles View Post
    voracek for seguin

    voracek for kapanen and marleau

    voracek for kovalchuk and muzzin

    voracek for trocheck and bjugstad
    Not a single one of those trades are realistic. I wouldn't make that trade if I were any of those GM's on the other side.

    Toronto has cap issues, so that's not happening.
    Kovalchuk has a NMC and I doubt he would waive to go to a bad team.
    Trocheck is better than Voracek.
    And Dallas isn't trading Seguin without a #1 or potential #1 center coming back, so that means Couturier, Patrick, Frost, or our pick assuming its a top pick is being involved in that deal.

    If we are to move Voracek, it's likely going to be for a struggling player with a solid cap hit+perhaps picks. AKA, it's unlikely to happen, but fun for fans like us to talk about I guess.
    Last edited by CasperX22; 01-09-2019 at 09:29 PM.

  9. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by CasperX22 View Post
    Not a single one of those trades are realistic. I wouldn't make that trade if I were any of those GM's on the other side.

    Toronto has cap issues, so that's not happening.
    Kovalchuk has a NMC and I doubt he would waive to go to a bad team.
    Trocheck is better than Voracek.
    And Dallas isn't trading Seguin without a #1 or potential #1 center coming back, so that means Couturier, Patrick, Frost, or our pick assuming its a top pick is being involved in that deal.

    If we are to move Voracek, it's likely going to be for a struggling player with a solid cap hit+perhaps picks. AKA, it's unlikely to happen, but fun for fans like us to talk about I guess.
    Patrick+jake for seguin.

    Do you do it?

  10. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by txravis12 View Post
    Patrick+jake for seguin.

    Do you do it?
    Yes. Lets just assume for a minute that we get the #1 pick, Simmonds is gone, Allison makes the team,and we bring Raffl back with no other changes...

    JVR-Seguin-Konecny
    Frost-Couturier-Giroux
    Lindblom-Hughes-Allison
    Raffl-Laughton-NAK

    That's sick. That is absolutely filthy.

  11. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by CasperX22 View Post
    Yes. Lets just assume for a minute that we get the #1 pick, Simmonds is gone, Allison makes the team,and we bring Raffl back with no other changes...

    JVR-Seguin-Konecny
    Frost-Couturier-Giroux
    Lindblom-Hughes-Allison
    Raffl-Laughton-NAK

    That's sick. That is absolutely filthy.
    if we don't get hughes, you still do it?

  12. #237
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    i can't, who would trade voracek for seguin? I mean frost has to be added to that deal and even then dallas would still question themselves as to why that trade benefits there team.
    logistically? it would be the guy who called seguin "****ing horseshit", 2 weeks ago. that's who would be trading seguin for voracek.

    also: morgan frost is not a name you add to random deals on a whim. as a prospect, his value and performance is on par with mitch marner, kyle connor, nico hischier, clayton keller. there are 30 GMs who need to keep his name out of their mouths.
    Voracek will be a very hard player to move in my opinion and I still think he can be a productive/dominant at times player for us. It would be beneficial to move his contract but we would have to get substantial pieces in return. The return doesn't have to be star players. Freeing his contract would allow us to go after a panarin type player. Other than that I highly doubt voracek is gone, almost a 5% chance if that. all my opinion lol
    teams have very few opportunities to acquire top 50/ish forwards, so if the flyers are willing to trade voracek, they will have viable offers on the table.
    Patrick+jake for seguin.

    Do you do it?
    nope. i'd be willing to add lindblom or obrien or vorobyev, but throwing in patrick would still leave us with a gaping hole at 3C.

    if we could make a seguin/voracek trade work without including patrick, then sign a pair of speedy middle 6 wings in free agency (eberle, zuccarello), plus a veteran PK specialist for the 4th line (hagelin):

    giroux - couturier - eberle
    JVR - seguin - frost
    zuccarello - patrick - konecny
    hagelin - laughton - NAK/allison/laczynski/rubtsov

    that's a lineup that would give new meaning to "flyers" because that team has wings. the forechecking from that bottom 6 would be insane.

  13. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by steagles View Post
    logistically? it would be the guy who called seguin "****ing horseshit", 2 weeks ago. that's who would be trading seguin for voracek.

    also: morgan frost is not a name you add to random deals on a whim. as a prospect, his value and performance is on par with mitch marner, kyle connor, nico hischier, clayton keller. there are 30 GMs who need to keep his name out of their mouths.
    teams have very few opportunities to acquire top 50/ish forwards, so if the flyers are willing to trade voracek, they will have viable offers on the table.
    nope. i'd be willing to add lindblom or obrien or vorobyev, but throwing in patrick would still leave us with a gaping hole at 3C.

    if we could make a seguin/voracek trade work without including patrick, then sign a pair of speedy middle 6 wings in free agency (eberle, zuccarello), plus a veteran PK specialist for the 4th line (hagelin):

    giroux - couturier - eberle
    JVR - seguin - frost
    zuccarello - patrick - konecny
    hagelin - laughton - NAK/allison/laczynski/rubtsov

    that's a lineup that would give new meaning to "flyers" because that team has wings. the forechecking from that bottom 6 would be insane.
    teams would love to add a top 70 forward yes, but not one with a tough contract to move.

    youre gunna have to add more than obrien, voro, lindblom to get seguin. Seguin is better than voracek, stars would lose a scorer (goals are worth more than assists), and their top line center. patrick or the 1st would have to be added to the deal to get seguin and something else.

    I also do not get how we can just add eberle and zuccarello who are both going to get 5-7 mill and resign sanheim, provorov, tk...Hagelin i wouldn't mind but not for anything more than 3 mill which is what he is going to get. Pass for me. Rather just resign raffl. OR, sign silf/brassard/nelson/nyquist instead of hag.

  14. #239
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    what if we sign staal to a 1 or 2 year deal?

    g-couts-tk
    lindblom-staal-voracek
    jvr-patrick-frost
    raffl-laughton-nak

  15. #240
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    I also do not get how we can just add eberle and zuccarello who are both going to get 5-7 mill and resign sanheim, provorov, tk...Hagelin i wouldn't mind but not for anything more than 3 mill which is what he is going to get. Pass for me. Rather just resign raffl. OR, sign silf/brassard/nelson/nyquist instead of hag.
    hagelin won't get 3MM. he has 5 points in 23 games this season, and he'll be 31 next year.
    zuccarello won't get 5+MM. he's on pace for 35 points, he's a -20, and he'll be 32 years old next year.
    eberle might get 5+MM because of his reputation, but he's not getting more than that. he's only on pace for 38 points this year.

    there are a few advantages to signing guys like this:
    1: new blood. hagelin may not be better than raffl, but there's value in bringing fresh eyes, fresh legs, fresh ideas into the locker room.
    2: new playing style. hagelin brings speed. zuccarello brings speed. eberle brings speed. add in frost, and in one fell swoop, we become a completely different team.
    3: buy low; sell high. instead of paying a ransom for a free agent who just had a career year, get someone who's coming off a down year, who might benefit from a new situation, and who has a chance to provide some surplus value if things break right.


    if i'm wrong about the value, just move to the next guy on the list. instead of eberle, johansson. instead of zuccarello, silfverberg. instead of hagelin, lindberg. find the right value, then pounce.

    what if we sign staal to a 1 or 2 year deal?

    g-couts-tk
    lindblom-staal-voracek
    jvr-patrick-frost
    raffl-laughton-nak
    your plan is to bring back 9 forwards from this season? from the worst season this franchise has had since randy robataille? that's the plan?

    i'm guessing you'll also want to bring back 5 of our 6 defensemen, too, right?


    i'm good with eric staal, but bringing back this colostomy of a roster is a complete non-starter
    Last edited by steagles; 01-10-2019 at 03:17 AM.

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