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View Poll Results: Who is the better NBA player

Voters
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  • Stephen Curry

    21 70.00%
  • James Harden

    9 30.00%
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Results 211 to 225 of 503
  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Maybe if he had a great pick and roll pick guard like Harden to set him up


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    Nah, peep cp3s numbers last year with harden on the bench, I feel as tho that system is tailor made for 1 guy to shine but not several stars.

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    Even easier, he came off the bench all year remember. Try again
    Oh, you were talking about the Finals series with the Thunder? When the Heat admitted to focusing in on a 23 year old bench player?

  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saddletramp View Post
    Oh, you were talking about the Finals series with the Thunder? When the Heat admitted to focusing in on a 23 year old bench player?
    And he hasn't recovered from that since. Harden has a bad track record for the playoffs considering his regular season success. I saw it with the Thunder. He seemed lost and completely out of the game. Certainly didn't look like he wanted to be there at all.

  4. #214
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    Never mind. Talking about two different things so meh.

  5. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronz View Post
    Nah, peep cp3s numbers last year with harden on the bench, I feel as tho that system is tailor made for 1 guy to shine but not several stars.
    Thatís bc CP3 needs to dribble the ball in one spot for 10 seconds before he does anything. Curry would just catch and shoot


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  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by IKnowHoops View Post
    Itís not a fact they had more help bro. That bench you had was known to outplay all benched and many teams starters. Your starters were often times losing to The Cavs and your bench would come in and kill. After wade Bosh Bron, the Heat were as pathetic as it gets, meanwhile your team probably had the best bench in the nba. Stop
    Bro you have some false narrative stuck in your head. They effectively ran a 7 man rotation in the playoffs + Finals (anybody over 10mpg) and Livingston as their main bench guy in the Finals posted one game of a +/- over +3 (their biggest blowout where everyone crushed). 3 of the 6 they lost points with him on the court. Iguodala split time starting and only posted an on-court positive net rating in the double digits when he was playing with Curry and the starters (and did so every time he played with Curry and the starters). Their two close losses were the two games Curry did not have a positive +/- (-2 and -4). I'm actually looking right now and there was a total of 5 games all season where Curry was a negative and the team won. 3 of those he was a -1 .IE they go as he goes.


    Curry led the league in RPM that year easily by the way (Lebron, Harden, AD and Kawhi filling in the rest of the top 5), with their two main bench options in Igoudala and Livingston coming in at 12th and 26th for their positions in the stat (a slight positive and an overall negative respectively per the numbers).

    So yeah, I will go ahead and roll with Pippen and Wade with elite Power Forwards and great spacing shooters every day there.
    Last edited by tredigs; 01-08-2019 at 05:50 PM.

  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    Ya I mean the last time Curry was leading this team without Durant they lost in the finals with him playing poorly choking 3-1 lead. Durant it was WCF where he choked 3-1 lead. The last time we saw this team without Curry or Durant in the playoffs for a stretch they were beating Portland/Houston with Klay/Draymond.

    One year after meeting Houston in WCF they went 2-1 without Curry and won a game he played 18 minutes going 2-9 with 5 turnovers. Essentially 3-1 against the Rockets without Curry and 2-1 against Portland to start the next series.

    This is what I was getting at before on how it isn't like outside of support there has been a ton proven for any of these guys not just Harden. They choked last time they were leaders of their team/faced comparable talent. When they have had success it came with a lot of talent (Westy/Harden/Ibaka or Klay/Green/Iggy and later KD) and in Currys case when they won a title it came with injuries to competition.

    I agree we can't just write off the advantages/accomplishments of Curry individually either which is why he is still my choice but we also shouldn't pretend the context isn't what it is.
    This is some pretty interesting spin as well. Here is another version. The last time Curry was without KD he won an MVP in unanimous fashion for a 73 win team and put up arguably the best offensive season of this generation. He did get injured in the playoffs and they ultimately lost with him playing sub par in the Finals (multiple injuries and a suspension not helping the Warriors case obviously). Still, a clearly dominant season by Curry and the Warriors even if they did fall a minute short of the title that year. Lebron + Kyrie were incredible as well.

    Klay + Draymond were in prime form by this season and yes could handle the 41 win Harden led Rockets who never should have even made the playoffs in the first place (Curry played the first half of the first game before the injury and he put up 24 and 7 and they were up 30). The 44 win Blazers were another underwhelming (and very welcomed) playoff matchup. The Warriors won their home games and then lost by double digits their first road game. They were down huge to start game 4 in Portland as well. Curry was still questionable but Kerr decided to sub him in off the bench and he absolutely exploded and carried them to the eventual OT win + closed it out the following game. If he did not return they would have been very likely tied 2-2 and in trouble.

    With Curry and KD together Curry has easily led the team in RPM (3rd in the league those years with Chris Paul leading the league both times until this season) and they have mostly cruised to two titles (CP3 with Harden being their true top threat, but that diminished when CP went down). With Durant, Curry and the Warriors have been above the threshold. Same can't be said for Westbrook + Ibaka with Durant or Harden + Westbrook + Ibaka with Durant.
    Last edited by tredigs; 01-08-2019 at 01:46 PM.

  8. #218
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    So much emphasis is being put on team records where these records are a product of TEAM play. I think Curry and Harden are pretty close, impact wise, but Harden is a better basketball player purely due to his bigger size and more position flexibility. Both are exceptional players in this era(doesn't mean much since you can't guard shooters). So for me, Harden by a hair, but I would still take a healthy Lebron over both even at age 34.


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  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by tredigs View Post
    This is some pretty interesting spin as well. Here is another version. The last time Curry was without KD he won an MVP in unanimous fashion for a 73 win team and put up arguably the best offensive season of this generation. He did get injured in the playoffs and they ultimately lost with him playing sub par in the Finals (multiple injuries and a suspension not helping the Warriors case obviously). Still, a clearly dominant season by Curry and the Warriors even if they did fall a minute short of the title that year. Lebron + Kyrie were incredible as well.

    Klay + Draymond were in prime form by this season and yes could handle the 41 win Harden led Rockets who never should have even made the playoffs in the first place (Curry played the first half of the first game before the injury and he put up 24 and 7 and they were up 30). The 44 win Blazers were another underwhelming (and very welcomed) playoff matchup. The Warriors won their home games and then lost by double digits their first road game. They were down huge to start game 4 in Portland as well. Curry was still questionable but Kerr decided to sub him in off the bench and he absolutely exploded and carried them to the eventual OT win + closed it out the following game. If he did not return they would have been very likely tied 2-2 and in trouble.

    With Curry and KD together Curry has easily led the team in RPM (3rd in the league those years with Chris Paul leading the league both times until this season) and they have mostly cruised to two titles (CP3 with Harden being their true top threat, but that diminished when CP went down). With Durant, Curry and the Warriors have been above the threshold. Same can't be said for Westbrook + Ibaka with Durant or Harden + Westbrook + Ibaka with Durant.
    LOL this is what spin/deflection looks like. You start mumbling off about RS accomplishments when the whole focus has been Harden falling off in comparison come playoffs... Harden has an MVP/RS success as well but it is the falling off in the playoffs while not being surrounded by GS level talent people use to bring him down. It was a failed season in the aspect of winning a title as the first 73 win team and like even you say Curry played poorly in said series. Stop trying to downplay/deflect the reality of what happened when it matters. He may have dominated the RS like we said but this discussion has been about Hardens drop in the playoffs so maybe stick to that point and realize this is just you deflecting.

    If those two are out there beating playoff teams alone then lets not act like those two aren't great support like some have been trying to do, yourself included. You labeled them by where they were drafted earlier ignoring 1st picks like Bogut etc. your the one going insane on the spinning here. Once again what I said is what actually happened you are just trying to deflect away from the significance of GS being capable of winning playoff games without Curry OR KD. It amazes me how the road for the Warriors can be so tough one year despite injuries to opponents then the next it was very easy because Curry was injured for part of it. Almost like you will just switch the narrative on a dime because... You are an extreme homer.

    Great I never said anything about this stuff, just pointed out what has happened (like literally, without the spin job you have done). Curry can be more impactful than KD and that doesn't take away from anything I mentioned about before they joined up at all.

    GS did lose in the finals with Curry playing bad. When they won other teams did have injuries (Kyrie/Love finals anyone). Klay and Draymond were out there winning playoff games as the leaders without Curry etc. You can prop up the injured competition from 15, downplay the competition when Curry was injured in 16 yet they were still winning, downplay Currys individual failures that post season/focus on RS etc. but it doesn't take away that everything I said there was true.
    Last edited by mngopher35; 01-09-2019 at 03:20 PM.

  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    LOL this is what spin/deflection looks like. You start mumbling off about RS accomplishments when the whole focus has been Harden falling off in comparison come playoffs... Harden has an MVP/RS success as well but it is the falling off in the playoffs while not being surrounded by GS level talent people use to bring him down. It was a failed season in the aspect of winning a title as the first 73 win team and like even you say Curry played poorly in said series. Stop trying to downplay/deflect the reality of what happened when it matters. He may have dominated the RS like we said but this discussion has been about Hardens drop in the playoffs so maybe stick to that point and realize this is just you deflecting.

    If those two are out there beating playoff teams alone then lets not act like those two aren't great support like some have been trying to do, yourself included. You labeled them by where they were drafted earlier ignoring 1st picks like Bogut etc. your the one going insane on the spinning here. Once again what I said is what actually happened you are just trying to deflect away from the significance of GS being capable of winning playoff games without Curry OR KD. It amazes me how the road for the Warriors can be so tough one year despite injuries to opponents then the next it was very easy because Curry was injured for part of it. Almost like you will just switch the narrative on a dime because... You are an extreme homer.

    Great I never said anything about this stuff, just pointed out what has happened (like literally, without the spin job you have done). Curry can be more impactful than KD and that doesn't take away from anything I mentioned about before they joined up at all.

    GS did lose in the finals with Curry playing bad. When they won other teams did have injuries (Kyrie/Love finals anyone). Klay and Draymond were out there winning playoff games as the leaders without Curry etc. You can prop up the injured competition from 15, downplay the competition when Curry was injured in 16 yet they were still winning, downplay Currys individual failures that post season/focus on RS etc. but it doesn't take away that everything I said there was true.
    Wow did everything I spelled out for you fly right over your head that easily?

    You're hilarious. #1, you write about separate seasons as if they are the same. "A year after the Rockets made the WCF the Warriors took them out in the playoffs without Curry". Yeah, no ****. That team was horrible. In scraping their way to .500, one of the worst WC playoff teams in the last decade. The Warriors cast - specifically Draymond who was now integrated into the offense as a playmaker and a newfound All Star - was also better. We had better damn hope a 73 win team can easily beat a .500 team regardless of one player being out. And that's the SINGLE series we have seen them win without Curry in those years (and possibly the only one they would have won). Had Curry not come back in G2 against Portland, they're 2-2 and fighting for their playoff life against a 44 win team. That's their level without Curry. They're not out there contending for any damn titles without him lol, let alone being labeled as one of the greatest teams in history. All the on-off metrics have shown this for over half a decade by the way. It's not a secret to anyone paying attention.

  11. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by tredigs View Post
    Wow did everything I spelled out for you fly right over your head that easily?

    You're hilarious. #1, you write about separate seasons as if they are the same. "A year after the Rockets made the WCF the Warriors took them out in the playoffs without Curry". Yeah, no ****. That team was horrible. In scraping their way to .500, one of the worst WC playoff teams in the last decade. The Warriors cast - specifically Draymond who was now integrated into the offense as a playmaker and a newfound All Star - was also better. We had better damn hope a 73 win team can easily beat a .500 team regardless of one player being out. And that's the SINGLE series we have seen them win without Curry in those years (and possibly the only one they would have won). Had Curry not come back in G2 against Portland, they're 2-2 and fighting for their playoff life against a 44 win team. That's their level without Curry. They're not out there contending for any damn titles without him lol, let alone being labeled as one of the greatest teams in history. All the on-off metrics have shown this for over half a decade by the way. It's not a secret to anyone paying attention.
    I will give you Rockets weren't the same team that year but that doesn't change that they won does it (and if it does matter a ton then the context behind competition/injuries etc definitely matters a ton when speaking of that title). I am fine with using that context but then the context obviously goes both ways, Rockets were a low level playoff team and Green/Klay showed they were capable of that without Curry. Oh no if Curry doesn't come back they actually have a tough 2nd round matchup? Are you serious here? A team being in a position to at worst be tied in the 2nd round without their best player is a sign of just how capable this group is.

    That's just strawman, where did I ever say they were competing for a title without him? Again I am simply pointing out the reality of what has happened and you are having troubles trying to spin/deflect it away. I think they are capable of making the WCF without Curry is essentially what you are saying here then if things go right, cool we agree? They might have beaten Portland might not but at worst they were headed towards a dog fight to be one of the only 4 remaining teams in the NBA without Curry OR Durant. This is pretty much my point lol I don't get how you are changing any sort of narritive other than saying it was against weaker teams (which I admit, just like 15 was weaker with the injuries etc).

    So it seems you no longer disagree with me on the injuries/15, curry dropping off, anything about Durant dropping off and that KD/Curry did the things I said? You are simply trying to pointout that because those playoff teams weren't great they wouldn't win a title without Curry (a strawman I never mentioned)? Cool.
    Last edited by mngopher35; 01-09-2019 at 04:38 PM.

  12. #222
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    I will add, the toughest team/series the Warriors have faced before KD joined was the 2016 KD/Westbrook/Adams/Ibaka/Roberson Thunder. That was my favorite Klay series, but Curry was the best player on the court on either team and led them to the incredible comeback. No injuries, no BS. Curry averaging 33/7/8 +2.3 steals on 47/47/91 in the 3 win or go-home games. They lost the next series of course (beyond the obvious injuries to GS and the suspension, I don't think it exactly hurt Cleveland to cruise into that Finals with b2b 40 point wins over Toronto while GS battled for their season each game. East life), but let's not sit here and pretend we have not seen Curry tested by great teams and lead them to victory. In the prior season or that one. It's damn sure a hell of a lot more impressive than anything we have seen from Harden.

  13. #223
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    Ironic by the way that the one series we're talking about GS winning without Curry was over prime Harden (and Dwight and Ariza and Beverly). Harden averaging his standard 41/31/84 playoff slash in one of his many embarrassing playoff memories for us to look back on. That season for them as a whole was just a **** show.

  14. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewing View Post
    Thatís bc CP3 needs to dribble the ball in one spot for 10 seconds before he does anything. Curry would just catch and shoot


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    Lol, that's true.

    So you mean someone like eric Gordon who just let's it pop off. Yeah , check his stats without harden too

  15. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by tredigs View Post
    Ironic by the way that the one series we're talking about GS winning without Curry was over prime Harden (and Dwight and Ariza and Beverly). Harden averaging his standard 41/31/84 playoff slash in one of his many embarrassing playoff memories for us to look back on. That season for them as a whole was just a **** show.
    Just do what nobody wants to. Show harden's playoff stats if you disregard Dallas. It's truly pathetic. I don't expect the man to win but c'mon, at least show up. I asked before, what's currys worst series and (iirc) mngopher said his first championship series. Lol... a series where he was an arguable FMVP is his worst? Lmfao, then why is harden even in the same breath? He's closer to melo than a true superstar

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