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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    It depends what all is out there to sign in FA etc. but would I prefer to keep Sheldon and use our first round pick on oline instead of hoping a 2nd or 3rd rounder comes in making an impact on the oline? Ya I think I would. I also would be fine if it were Barr instead of Sheldon but am hearing he wants 3-4 pass rushing lb $ maybe.

    This all depends on it being at the right price and so on but if the options are sign one OL and draft another in the 2nd with a dt in the first or have that hole covered and get a first round mauler I go with fixing the oline in best way possible aka using that first rounder. Now if there are top oline this FA wanting to sign then take them over Sheldon but that hasn't happened even when we had a lot of cap to spend so my guess is someone who is already here more likely to stay without overpaying.

    If we know the defense is top 5 or so and can keep it that way while getting enough to sign a good G in FA, draft one in the first and still use a later pick to develop that seems like enough invested in the oline to me. If we cut rudy here and need a TE, let Sheldon walk and need a DT etc I do worry how far back we kick the oline and I am done leaving any questions there tbh. I was just going over the best way, imo, to leave us with very few holes to fill and enough cap to still spend on a pretty good olineman.

    Essentially I want whatever will allow us to potentially draft oline in both rounds 1/2 if the draft falls that way, even if we sign a good G in FA. I don't want to be in a position where we NEED another starter in the draft outside the oline/also need starting oline. My plan allows any of our top 3 picks to go to oline while also signing one. We could potentially fix the problem in a year or two with that type of investment which is my main focus of FA.
    I hear ya, and fixing the offensive line needs to be priority #1 but just because we let Richardson walk (hypothetically) doesnít mean we need to replace him in the first round. We can certainly still use that 1st round pick on an o-lineman and get a solid replacement for Sheldon somewhere in rounds 2-4. I like the idea of having multiple defensive tackles and ends to rotate in and keep fresh. Spending big bucks to keep a lineman like Sheldon doesnít seem like a great idea to me. If you have an elite tackle like Aaron Donald or Fletcher Cox you pay up, Sheldon doesnít fit that bill.

    Remember Spielman has had a really good track record of drafting solid defensive lineman in the later rounds (Griffen, Hunter, Weatherly, Holmes, etc.)

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by nasthemasta View Post
    I hear ya, and fixing the offensive line needs to be priority #1 but just because we let Richardson walk (hypothetically) doesnít mean we need to replace him in the first round. We can certainly still use that 1st round pick on an o-lineman and get a solid replacement for Sheldon somewhere in rounds 2-4. I like the idea of having multiple defensive tackles and ends to rotate in and keep fresh. Spending big bucks to keep a lineman like Sheldon doesnít seem like a great idea to me. If you have an elite tackle like Aaron Donald or Fletcher Cox you pay up, Sheldon doesnít fit that bill.

    Remember Spielman has had a really good track record of drafting solid defensive lineman in the later rounds (Griffen, Hunter, Weatherly, Holmes, etc.)
    Well if Richardson wants that kind of money then no. Same with Barr. I just kinda think Barr is more likely to get it on the open market and Richardson may come a bit cheaper. I would take one of them at a decent price though and then use your plan on the other position if it were up to me is all I am saying.

    Rick has to know his job is tied to fixing this offensive line next year. We passed on oline this year in that fashion and some people were upset at draft time, I think it is a tough sell for our first pick not to be oline (Will Hernandez had a nice season for the Giants I think too). He already heard the backlash once and now everyone is on the hotseat with that constantly the number 1 issue.

    If it is a clear star sure but I am not sure there are usually pretty clear ones at 18 and if not oline should be the target. If we need to move up/down a little or something thats fine let rick be rick but I do think a top 40 pick or so goes to the oline personally (with a late pick or two). Unless we get two good FA's, I would also try that in FA first if Barr/Richardson want to get paid big. Problem with deciding on draft now is FA is first and can go so many ways lol. I am not overly set on anyone just kinda was guessing what might come cheapest/work financially to keep most of that defense, save enough to spend for a good olineman, draft oline first round, LB second or something along those lines. LB/DT Richardson/Barr whoever wants to stay at a decent price. If neither go into FA looking for two of the top top G's or one top G and best T/swing we can get (then drafting two guards or G/C in 2nd + 3rd sounds solid if we love a DT/LB/superstar anywhere in first). Not overly against not using our first on oline just saying it is a tough sell and the plan I had kept our team almost totally in tact with one high level FA/1st to use on G's. If our number 1/3 issues were oline/offensive coordinator/style of play to most and we fix those then all that is left is... Kirk Cousins. 4th on a QB?

    Just kidding, I still think he is who is he is but with Theilan/Diggs/Cook/good oline/playcalling focused on running/PA/(rollouts if needed still) andd clock/game management style with a top 5 defense (our corners should be great next year if we keep all healthy) we can win some games.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by mngopher35 View Post
    Well if Richardson wants that kind of money then no. Same with Barr. I just kinda think Barr is more likely to get it on the open market and Richardson may come a bit cheaper. I would take one of them at a decent price though and then use your plan on the other position if it were up to me is all I am saying.

    Rick has to know his job is tied to fixing this offensive line next year. We passed on oline this year in that fashion and some people were upset at draft time, I think it is a tough sell for our first pick not to be oline (Will Hernandez had a nice season for the Giants I think too). He already heard the backlash once and now everyone is on the hotseat with that constantly the number 1 issue.

    If it is a clear star sure but I am not sure there are usually pretty clear ones at 18 and if not oline should be the target. If we need to move up/down a little or something thats fine let rick be rick but I do think a top 40 pick or so goes to the oline personally (with a late pick or two). Unless we get two good FA's, I would also try that in FA first if Barr/Richardson want to get paid big. Problem with deciding on draft now is FA is first and can go so many ways lol. I am not overly set on anyone just kinda was guessing what might come cheapest/work financially to keep most of that defense, save enough to spend for a good olineman, draft oline first round, LB second or something along those lines. LB/DT Richardson/Barr whoever wants to stay at a decent price. If neither go into FA looking for two of the top top G's or one top G and best T/swing we can get (then drafting two guards or G/C in 2nd + 3rd sounds solid if we love a DT/LB/superstar anywhere in first). Not overly against not using our first on oline just saying it is a tough sell and the plan I had kept our team almost totally in tact with one high level FA/1st to use on G's. If our number 1/3 issues were oline/offensive coordinator/style of play to most and we fix those then all that is left is... Kirk Cousins. 4th on a QB?

    Just kidding, I still think he is who is he is but with Theilan/Diggs/Cook/good oline/playcalling focused on running/PA/(rollouts if needed still) andd clock/game management style with a top 5 defense (our corners should be great next year if we keep all healthy) we can win some games.
    Itís actually come to the point where i donít know if our defense is one or two pieces away from getting over the hump or if we need to make some changes at key positions and letting guys like Barr, Richardson, Griffen go. Iíd even be open to trading guys like Waynes or Alexander for draft picks or an offensive lineman. Thatís pretty unlikely though because not many teams will trade the few talented o-lineman they have. This o-line problem is not just a Vikings issue itís pretty bad across the league. The positive for us though is that not many teams have solid depth at cornerback and weíre pretty loaded at that position. Holton Hill and Mike Hughes are two promising young players.
    Last edited by nasthemasta; 01-04-2019 at 12:41 AM.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by nasthemasta View Post
    Itís actually come to the point where i donít know if our defense is one or two pieces away from getting over the hump or if we need to make some changes at key positions and letting guys like Barr, Richardson, Griffen go. Iíd even be open to trading guys like Waynes or Alexander for draft picks or an offensive lineman. Thatís pretty unlikely though because not many teams will trade the few talented o-lineman they have. This o-line problem is not just a Vikings issue itís pretty bad across the league. The positive for us though is that not many teams have solid depth at cornerback and weíre pretty loaded at that position. Holton Hill and Mike Hughes are two promising young players.
    I am not really sure there is a hump we will get over/don't expect us to be the best defensive team in the league. I don't think we are gonna make it there unless we get like a Mack pass rusher added onto what we already have to start creating more pressure/turns on top of what we do. I just think keeping most of what we had and getting that secondary healthy likely is enough for another top 5ish defensive year which should be enough and reaching that level takes another major investment on defense we cant afford (elite rushers don't usually last in draft). I worry if we let some guys walk then we drop down a little more and now we aren't just relying on the oline/offense to be above average, we expect them to carry us in games more now too which probably won't work out well.

    Ya with Rhodes/Waynes/Hill/Hughes/Alexander it seems like one could be traded but not sure that happens much in the nfl like that. Oline are definitely tough to come by agreed.

    Adding to the defense is fine but I wouldn't start adding pieces at the expense of adding a couple stud olineman. Every plan we have in place this offseason needs that oline aspect as the focus, strengthening/maintaining that defense can be second.

  5. #50
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    The biggest problem with this defense is creating the TO. If we have to sacrifice a few defensive players, who we proved we can live without short term, for some additional pieces on offense I would be all for it.

  6. #51
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    Interesting stats about our defense:

    The Vikings defense gave up the 10th-most points in the first two drives of a game
    2017 Eric Kendricks gave up the 5th fewest yards per coverage snap among linebackers; 2018 he finished 80th out of 93 LBs
    The Vikings had 16 sacks on the road, tied for sixth-lowest in the NFL
    18 sacks on first and second down tied for eighth lowest
    42 QB hits was the lowest under Zimmer
    1 or fewer sacks in 4 of the last 9 games (all losses)
    2019 Vikings Draft :
    Round 1: Garrett Bradbury C N.C. State
    Round 2: Irv Smith TE Alabama
    Round 3: Alex Mattison RB Boise State
    Round 4: Dru Samia G Oklahoma
    Round 5: Cameron Smith LB USC
    Round 6: Armon Watts DT Arkansas
    Round 6: Marcus Epps S Wyoming
    Round 6: Oli Udoh OT Elon
    Round 7: Kris Boyd CB Texas
    Round 7: Dillon Mitchell WR Oregon
    Round 7: Olabisi Johnson WR Colorado State
    Round 7: Austin Cutting LS Air Force


  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacofunk64 View Post
    The biggest problem with this defense is creating the TO. If we have to sacrifice a few defensive players, who we proved we can live without short term, for some additional pieces on offense I would be all for it.
    Doubtful Zim goes for that. Last year, his big statement around the offense was that "we don't want to rob Peter to pay Paul". My guess is that Spielman will fix the offense the same way he did 2 years ago when he signed Reiff/Remmers and drafted Elflein. I expect him to sign a guard and then look to get another one after the first round. That leaves us with the ability to address the defense in round 1 and still fix the line. Everybody is happy at the end of the day.
    2019 Vikings Draft :
    Round 1: Garrett Bradbury C N.C. State
    Round 2: Irv Smith TE Alabama
    Round 3: Alex Mattison RB Boise State
    Round 4: Dru Samia G Oklahoma
    Round 5: Cameron Smith LB USC
    Round 6: Armon Watts DT Arkansas
    Round 6: Marcus Epps S Wyoming
    Round 6: Oli Udoh OT Elon
    Round 7: Kris Boyd CB Texas
    Round 7: Dillon Mitchell WR Oregon
    Round 7: Olabisi Johnson WR Colorado State
    Round 7: Austin Cutting LS Air Force


  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikingsfan0845 View Post
    Interesting stats about our defense:

    The Vikings defense gave up the 10th-most points in the first two drives of a game
    2017 Eric Kendricks gave up the 5th fewest yards per coverage snap among linebackers; 2018 he finished 80th out of 93 LBs
    The Vikings had 16 sacks on the road, tied for sixth-lowest in the NFL
    18 sacks on first and second down tied for eighth lowest
    42 QB hits was the lowest under Zimmer
    1 or fewer sacks in 4 of the last 9 games (all losses)
    I pointed out to my buddy early in the season that defense plays differently/worse on the first drives earlier in the year (guess it was maybe first two).

    Lack of pressure in general was an issue and I kinda think those opening drives we rushed less too but nothing to back it up.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikingsfan0845 View Post
    Doubtful Zim goes for that. Last year, his big statement around the offense was that "we don't want to rob Peter to pay Paul". My guess is that Spielman will fix the offense the same way he did 2 years ago when he signed Reiff/Remmers and drafted Elflein. I expect him to sign a guard and then look to get another one after the first round. That leaves us with the ability to address the defense in round 1 and still fix the line. Everybody is happy at the end of the day.
    I would love it if we could trade back and pick up another second or something.

  10. #55
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    So 2 of my Hawkeyes made 2nd team All-Pro in Kittle and King. I just want to say that while my bias was huge for them I thought they could be very good and I was praying to get them and we kept passing on them.

    If Hockenson declares, it's likely that we would need to draft him in the first round. IMO he will be another great TE as he can do it all. Unfortunately I don't want to sacrifice OL for him though lol. If we can somehow get enough picks to trade back up I would be all for it.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikingsfan0845 View Post
    Doubtful Zim goes for that. Last year, his big statement around the offense was that "we don't want to rob Peter to pay Paul". My guess is that Spielman will fix the offense the same way he did 2 years ago when he signed Reiff/Remmers and drafted Elflein. I expect him to sign a guard and then look to get another one after the first round. That leaves us with the ability to address the defense in round 1 and still fix the line. Everybody is happy at the end of the day.
    but if we address the D in round 1 and not the OL, at what position would that be logical (he says remembering this exact same question last year and we added Hughes to an already loaded CB group)
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacofunk64 View Post
    So 2 of my Hawkeyes made 2nd team All-Pro in Kittle and King. I just want to say that while my bias was huge for them I thought they could be very good and I was praying to get them and we kept passing on them.

    If Hockenson declares, it's likely that we would need to draft him in the first round. IMO he will be another great TE as he can do it all. Unfortunately I don't want to sacrifice OL for him though lol. If we can somehow get enough picks to trade back up I would be all for it.
    Proud to be a Hawkeye. Donít forget Yanda.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacofunk64 View Post
    So 2 of my Hawkeyes made 2nd team All-Pro in Kittle and King. I just want to say that while my bias was huge for them I thought they could be very good and I was praying to get them and we kept passing on them.

    If Hockenson declares, it's likely that we would need to draft him in the first round. IMO he will be another great TE as he can do it all. Unfortunately I don't want to sacrifice OL for him though lol. If we can somehow get enough picks to trade back up I would be all for it.
    Amani Hooker just posted on his personal Facebook that he has declared! Thatís a bummer for the Hawkeyes, but great if he would go to the Vikings. I see him being a late first, early second.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiteWolf View Post
    but if we address the D in round 1 and not the OL, at what position would that be logical (he says remembering this exact same question last year and we added Hughes to an already loaded CB group)
    If we lose Richardson then DT would be the #1 need on D. This class is absolutely stacked on the d-line so we should be able to get a good player at 18. Maybe even a DE if we let Griffen go.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    2019 Vikings Draft :
    Round 1: Garrett Bradbury C N.C. State
    Round 2: Irv Smith TE Alabama
    Round 3: Alex Mattison RB Boise State
    Round 4: Dru Samia G Oklahoma
    Round 5: Cameron Smith LB USC
    Round 6: Armon Watts DT Arkansas
    Round 6: Marcus Epps S Wyoming
    Round 6: Oli Udoh OT Elon
    Round 7: Kris Boyd CB Texas
    Round 7: Dillon Mitchell WR Oregon
    Round 7: Olabisi Johnson WR Colorado State
    Round 7: Austin Cutting LS Air Force


  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacofunk64 View Post
    So 2 of my Hawkeyes made 2nd team All-Pro in Kittle and King. I just want to say that while my bias was huge for them I thought they could be very good and I was praying to get them and we kept passing on them.

    If Hockenson declares, it's likely that we would need to draft him in the first round. IMO he will be another great TE as he can do it all. Unfortunately I don't want to sacrifice OL for him though lol. If we can somehow get enough picks to trade back up I would be all for it.
    Kittle is a stud. Woulda been nice to get him.

    Iíve read this is a really good TE class. Both kids from Iowa seem to be the top guys. I forget their names but Georgia and Stanford each had a TE declare that are good prospects. Doesnít matter the order to me but Iím hoping to see OL, TE, and DL picked early.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    2019 Vikings Draft :
    Round 1: Garrett Bradbury C N.C. State
    Round 2: Irv Smith TE Alabama
    Round 3: Alex Mattison RB Boise State
    Round 4: Dru Samia G Oklahoma
    Round 5: Cameron Smith LB USC
    Round 6: Armon Watts DT Arkansas
    Round 6: Marcus Epps S Wyoming
    Round 6: Oli Udoh OT Elon
    Round 7: Kris Boyd CB Texas
    Round 7: Dillon Mitchell WR Oregon
    Round 7: Olabisi Johnson WR Colorado State
    Round 7: Austin Cutting LS Air Force


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