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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by steagles View Post
    considering that the flyers have, literally, been the most mediocre franchise in american sports since hiring hextall, firing him seems like an explicit rejection of mediocrity. but you do you.
    it is, actually. i'm not saying you're in that group (you seem pretty measured), but it is absolutely a factor on this board.

    it is clear that some active posters here will jump down fletcher/holmgren's throat for doing and/or not doing, something they would have applauded if hextall had done it.noone local or national cared enough about the flyers to dig into it.

    or, to be more specific, anyone who cared enough about the flyers to dig into something like this would also have had something to lose by exposing it while hextall was still in a position of power. the way it's written, it seems like he reached out to sources for both stories, but after the first story, he was also contacted by additional people inside the flyers organization:
    Right. The Flyers are the very definitition of mediocre lately. And what did they do? Hired more mediocrity. I'm not "doing me". What was Fletcher other than "mediocre"? It's status quo. The Flyers could have aimed much higher and yet again they didn't.

    But celebrate the mediocrity if you'd like. I'll, instead, wish for more from a franchise who has shown it's uninterested in moving on from the identity it crafted in the mid 70s.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

  2. #62
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    Hakstol hasn't changed his system since Hextall left. Unless Hexy is sending him mean text messages, I think it's fair to state that the stale system was not being manadated by by the GM
    do you now? cause it seems as if you're lashing out like some psycho ex-boyfriend who's angry that your ex is dating a new guy.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by steagles View Post
    do you now? cause it seems as if you're lashing out like some psycho ex-boyfriend who's angry that your ex is dating a new guy.
    If you'd like to have a discussion, feel free. But I'm quite uninterested in personal attacks like this and this is nothing but baiting me.

    Keep it within the confines of the Flyers. Or simply don't respond to me.

    Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

  4. #64
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    What happened to getting someone fresh and with new ideas and philophies? Sounds like the same old same old as far as front office politics....You don't agree with two morons at the top (Holmgren and Scott), they'll find someone that does....

    Ridiculous. Cliff Fletcher is nothing to get excited about. What's his claim to GM fame?

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by SportsNutMike View Post
    What happened to getting someone fresh and with new ideas and philophies? Sounds like the same old same old as far as front office politics....You don't agree with two morons at the top (Holmgren and Scott), they'll find someone that does....

    Ridiculous. Cliff Fletcher is nothing to get excited about. What's his claim to GM fame?
    Fletcher is very much a "status quo" hiring in the sense that I don't believe he'll be likely to elevate the franchise. He was unable to do that in Minnesota for many years, nearly a full decade. He was alright. He had a mix of good and bad. But no matter what, his organization sat as a team good enough to make the playoffs, but never good enough to make a run in the playoffs. He's a guy who will likely get the Flyers to a handful of playoffs. He's also someone, who, based on history, is unlikely to bring a Stanley Cup to Philadelphia.

    Maybe he does. Maybe he's learned something from Ray Shero in 5 months of the slowest days for a GM (between FA and well before the deadline mania). Maybe he's able to make the right moves here. I'll be hoping he does. But I'm also ready to watch the Flyers prematurely move some of their young talent in a case of bringing in "right now" talents for a team who's further away than an infusion of a "right now" talent. And it'll likely bring the Flyers a 2nd round exit. And we very well may see a Myers/Hart/Sanheim/Frost/Ferrebee/etc. head off in a trade that we really wish we had kept around.

    I really want Fletcher to be successful in Philadelphia. I hope he's the right hire. But I don't see anything in his past that makes him more than a mediocre, status quo hire that doesn't have the ceiling as a GM to bring the Flyers much of what we really would like. I suspect he'll have a decently long run here...something like 4-6 years. I suspect the Flyers will make the playoffs most of, if not all of, those years past this one. And I think we'll still be searching for Stanley Cup.
    Last edited by 1908_Cubs; 12-03-2018 at 03:41 PM.

  6. #66
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    just to be clear about where i stand:
    i think hextall should have been fired on the merits.
    i did not expect to see a "deluge of information" about hextall's "nightmarish work environment".


    i have no idea what to think about the new guy.
    the job he's walking into is kind of comparable to the eagles, post-chip kelly.
    something i said when pederson was hired probably applies here, too:
    "whoever the eagles hire is taking the job to remediate whatever damage, real or imagined, was left in chip kelly's wake. [doug pederson] fits that description to a t."


    make no mistake:
    this is a very tough job.
    forget the hextall speculation.
    forget the business imperatives.
    forget the front office and coaching staff shakeup that's now in progress.

    on the merits:
    we have an aging core that probably isn't good enough to win now
    we don't have a goalie.
    we have a bunch of prospects, but many of them are completely green, some of them are going to fall short of expectations, and even the ones that hit may take another 7 years to fully form, a la sean couturier.

    by the time our prospects are ready to go, there's a good chance our veterans (giroux, voracek, jvr, maybe simmonds) may already be in steep decline. if we let that fester, it would significantly impede our potential to contend while couturier/ghost/etc. are in their primes, in the same way that we've already lost the potential to compete in giroux/voracek/simmonds prime.


    there is a path that i would prefer for the flyers to take, but that's not because i think it's the best, or the only, path. it's just the one i think is least risky in light of the amount of money we have committed to players who's best years are likely behind them.

  7. #67
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    Since 2012 with Fletcher at the helm....he had THREE players he drafted make it to the NHL in that time.....wow that bodes well for this team....looks like we'll be wheelin' and dealin' youngsters for vets again....he's also known for spending big in free agency....and we'll be right back in cap hell for years to come....

    Is there some sort of the Good Ol' Boy gang? Maybe Holmgren will force Fletcher to trade for Parise and Suter since he couldn't land them 6 years...

    Whats to be excited about this guy? Holmgren should be fired for this stupid hiring.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by steagles View Post
    just to be clear about where i stand:
    i think hextall should have been fired on the merits.
    i did not expect to see a "deluge of information" about hextall's "nightmarish work environment".


    i have no idea what to think about the new guy.
    the job he's walking into is kind of comparable to the eagles, post-chip kelly.
    something i said when pederson was hired probably applies here, too:
    "whoever the eagles hire is taking the job to remediate whatever damage, real or imagined, was left in chip kelly's wake. [doug pederson] fits that description to a t."


    make no mistake:
    this is a very tough job.
    forget the hextall speculation.
    forget the business imperatives.
    forget the front office and coaching staff shakeup that's now in progress.

    on the merits:
    we have an aging core that probably isn't good enough to win now
    we don't have a goalie.
    we have a bunch of prospects, but many of them are completely green, some of them are going to fall short of expectations, and even the ones that hit may take another 7 years to fully form, a la sean couturier.

    by the time our prospects are ready to go, there's a good chance our veterans (giroux, voracek, jvr, maybe simmonds) may already be in steep decline. if we let that fester, it would significantly impede our potential to contend while couturier/ghost/etc. are in their primes, in the same way that we've already lost the potential to compete in giroux/voracek/simmonds prime.


    there is a path that i would prefer for the flyers to take, but that's not because i think it's the best, or the only, path. it's just the one i think is least risky in light of the amount of money we have committed to players who's best years are likely behind them.
    I don't believe for a moment he's "Chip Kelly" esque. I think the media likes to make the Kelly comparisons because he's an easy and convenient target to compare him too. Kelly ran into this organization, forced people out, consolidated power, traded people away who questioned him and made a flat out mess of the organization. Hextall's issues were that we didn't do enough at times. That he sat back on his laurels. I didn't see a guy, who, outside of a single report, sounded like Chip Kelly. And he absolutely didn't run this organization into the ground. They're not good this year, but this isn't a bottomed out organization with no future. And we clearly haven't been sending people out left and right.

    I think the Chip Kelly comparisons are frankly, horribly off spot. Perhaps Hextall was difficult to work with. I won't doubt that. There's enough smoke out there that makes him seem like he probably was not the easiest person to talk to, or to work with at times. He may have been secretive. He may have chosen coaches. With that, however, I don't believe that's enough to be Chip Kelly. There's a lot of space between "He's difficult to work with" and "He's Chip Kelly".
    Last edited by 1908_Cubs; 12-03-2018 at 03:52 PM.

  9. #69
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    having lived through chip kelly and post-chip kelly; having lived through sam hinkie and post-sam hinkie; having lived through ruben amaro and post-ruben amaro, i'm going to offer some advice for people who have strong feelings about hextall:

    before you commit to any notions about the post-hextall flyer management, wait for these two things:
    1: the first press conference.
    -- give the guy an open hearing and pick out the things that you agree with, that you disagree with.
    -- then ask yourself if you would feel the same way if the words were coming from hextall.

    2: the first roster move/series of moves
    -- again, approach it with an open mind, picking out the positives and the negatives. then imagine that it was still hextall making the decisions and ask yourself if you'd have given him the benefit of the doubt.


    the first press conference is a statement of intent. whether you agree or disagree with that intent, it is the standard that future decisions will be judged by.

    think of these two checkpoints as if they're a punnet square; my personal examples are (in parentheses).
    1: makes a statement you agree with; follows through (sam hinkie):
    -- we're in good hands
    2: makes a statement you agree with; does not follow through (chip kelly):
    -- concerning, but he probably deserves the benefit of the doubt
    3: makes a statement you disagree with; follows through (ruben amaro/ish):
    -- maybe not ideal, but at least he's competent
    4: makes a statement you disagree with; does not follow through (ron hextall):
    -- there be dragons.
    Last edited by steagles; 12-03-2018 at 04:38 PM.

  10. #70
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    I really don't care what he says at the press conference. It's meaningless wordsmithery, at best. He's been in front of microphones before. What he *says* means nothing unless he says something beyond stupid. But he'll assuredly say something that sounds overall fine. I really couldn't care less about what he says when he's introduced. He'll say he's excited to be here. He looks forward to getting back to winning hockey. That he may not be able to deliver a cup overnight. That they will start an evaluation process with the coaching staff and he doesn't know yet what he's going to do. He'll talk about our great fan base or whatever. And that's it. He's not going to say anything else. It's just going to be standard introduction mad libs.

    What I'll care about today is his mediocre background.

    What I'll care about in the future is what he ends up doing. But judging on his past, I'm not very confident I'm going to like what he does.

    EDIT: Also what did Ron Hextall say at his introduction that you didn't like and he didn't follow through on? He said he wanted to build through the draft. He absolutely did that. He said he thought the only way to get a number 1 defensemen was through the draft, and he clearly attempted to follow through on that belief. He says that there's a few guys he'd like to get, but didn't know how possible that was.

    https://www.broadstreethockey.com/20...nscript-flyers

    You can find the transcript here. It's all standard stuff.
    Last edited by 1908_Cubs; 12-03-2018 at 05:01 PM.

  11. #71
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    I won't lie, I am concerned with Fletcher's previous record. Making the playoffs, to me, is simply not good enough. I want to compete for Stanley cups. 1st and 2nd round exits, simply do not cut it. I see nothing but 1st and 2nd round exits coming under Fletcher. I see a return to the days where at the beginning of the season when my friends would ask what I expect out of the Flyers: "Oh, we'll make the playoffs, then we'll get rocked in the first round, second if we get lucky. We're not a cup team though". I see having very little hope for improvement. I do see lots of trade action though, we'll be picking up those vets to try and get over the hump.

    I foresee a return to a crummy farm system, which will lead to a lack of salary controlled talent, which leads to cap situations and one or two line teams, and shoddy defense.

    We'll have no problem scoring in the regular season because there are more power plays, and one things vets can usually do is score on the power play. Once the playoffs come, those powerplay goals will dry up. We'll wonder what went wrong, and blame the lack of offense. We'll trade a pick and a spec for an aging wing that will "put us over the edge". he or another one of our aging core will get hurt. Then it's the injury's fault. We'll deal a spec and a future pick to patch the hole.

    I have no reason to believe that Fletcher is going to be anything different than Clarke/Homer v3. I see no reason to have hope that I will ever see the Flyers win the cup, because 1st and 2nd round exits are good enough to pack the arena during the season, sell jerseys, and get that playoff revenue that Comcrap cares about.
    <Meaning and Content>

    ...And did you see that Giroux goal?

  12. #72
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    Iíll wait to see if we get coach Q ... because Minnesota did not have coach Q

    Hexy stocked the cupboard so full that we can trade someone like Rubtsov and not need to be so uptight about it

    Coach Q would do a lot for me because of how he could relate to the analogous players on the flyers as he had in Chicago ... provorov/Keith ... TK/Kane ... Patrick/Toews ... Heís been to the top, and can ask for more without it coming across as demoralizing.

    I think Fletcher was hopefully part 1 of coach Q ... if it wasnít, Iím big time on the fence ... Iíd be more comfortable with Homer there than Fletcher because one doesnít feel any loyalty to players, he was at NJ.
    Last edited by castan_b; 12-03-2018 at 05:36 PM.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by castan_b View Post
    Iíll wait to see if we get coach Q ... because Minnesota did not have coach Q

    Hexy stocked the cupboard so full that we can trade someone like Rubtsov and not need to be so uptight about it

    Coach Q would do a lot for me because of how he could relate to the analogous players on the flyers as he had in Chicago ... provorov/Keith ... TK/Kane ... Patrick/Toews ... Heís been to the top, and can ask for more without it coming across as demoralizing.

    I think Fletcher was hopefully part 1 of coach Q ... if it wasnít, Iím big time on the fence ... Iíd be more comfortable with Homer there than Fletcher because one doesnít feel any loyalty to players, he was at NJ.
    I don't mind a trade here or there of picks or specs. I mind trading picks or specs wantonly. I mind bad drafting. I'd like to believe that We'll be savvy with our trades, but I don't see a lot of reason for hope in Fletcher's record.
    <Meaning and Content>

    ...And did you see that Giroux goal?

  14. #74
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    People are forgetting that for a 3 year window the flyers were in the cup, and then for two more years favored in the top 5 win the cup preseason.

    Homer's reign wasnt all bad.

    I tend to agree with strangles that he couldn't make trades past shea offer sheet and was forced to be wreckless with free agency to try and continue to contend.



    Also the hatred of a "retread" GM is annoying too. People fail, then get stronger. He wasnt even really a failure. He was just not quite good enough the first time. Give him a large market, a more attractive place for free agents, a place filled with history along with natural improvement and he may be a damn good GM.

    For all we know, these non retreads aren't going to be successful either .

    Relax and let's see what this dude does.

  15. #75
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    My biggest fear is that he'll come in here and prioritize this year as some sort of real chance at making a run. I just don't see it yet. I don't mind if we trade some of our young talent. The Flyers are in a situation where trading a few guys like Rubustov, Allison, Ratcliffe...it won't kill us. At least, I don't think it will. What I don't want is for Fletcher to come in here with that outlook. I want him to put premiums on all of those guys. If we trade them...it needs to be in trades that bring back long term assets. Not guys who are in their late 20's who might make us better today marginally but aren't big time acquisitions.

    Sure, the Flyers will have a better shot at the post season with them now. But are they long term plans players? Are they guys who make us better in 2020-2022? Are they necessary? Can we acquire them (or players just like them) for just money in the offseason?

    I'm fearful of that. Because those guys can be key in getting major acquisitions as secondary pieces later. Guys who will impact us for 5-7 years. Or will be important role players for our team. I don't want to see us sell off cheap role players for older role players today.

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