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  1. #181
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    Oct 2018
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    No more than happ imo. The only reason to sign either is to flip them at this deadline or perhaps next years deadline imo.
    or trying to win. Have people forgotten what the goal is? almost feel like I'm in oakland

  2. #182
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    Nov 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanton View Post
    or trying to win. Have people forgotten what the goal is? almost feel like I'm in oakland
    Happ makes a hell of a lot more sense than morton though. come on guys why would morton who has said he wants to play one more year come to Toronto? it sure isnt to win. or is it because he likes going through customs?

    there is nothing wrong with Toronto its a beautiful City, but playing there does have its drawbacks, especially for a guy who isnt gonna be a long term resident and is good enough to get what he wants moneywise from virtually any team. Why make things tougher on his Family. At least Happ knows the particulars here.

    its one of the reasons bringing in free agents is problematical, customs is never fun, changes in currency and other types of minutae have to be considered, and for a guy who has always been a visiting player that can be a daunting prospect. And again Toronto is a lovely city, probably the cleanest city Ive ever travelled to, great shoppes wonderful dining establishments, but for a guy in Mortons position, where he can write his own ticket so to speak... why would he?
    Last edited by mikepelfrey; 12-04-2018 at 12:00 AM.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikepelfrey View Post
    Happ makes a hell of a lot more sense than morton though. come on guys why would morton who has said he wants to play one more year come to Toronto? it sure isnt to win. or is it because he likes going through customs?

    there is nothing wrong with Toronto its a beautiful City, but playing there does have its drawbacks, especially for a guy who isnt gonna be a long term resident and is good enough to get what he wants moneywise from virtually any team. Why make things tougher on his Family. At least Happ knows the particulars here.

    its one of the reasons bringing in free agents is problematical, customs is never fun, changes in currency and other types of minutae have to be considered, and for a guy who has always been a visiting player that can be a daunting prospect. And again Toronto is a lovely city, probably the cleanest city Ive ever travelled to, great shoppes wonderful dining establishments, but for a guy in Mortons position, where he can write his own ticket so to speak... why would he?
    I would think money trumps most other things. We won't be in play on him anyway middle relievers that throw in the upper 90's are paid like elite closers or front end starters.

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikepelfrey View Post
    Wow not a single word on the non tendering of Solarte?
    You were really hoping at least one of us opposed the move, eh?

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    You were really hoping at least one of us opposed the move, eh?
    No after all the Grief I took for panning their acquisition last year I wondered if anyone would have the courage to own up to the fact that Diaz and Solarte were mistakes.. You have to admit I was consistent. When I opposed the acquisitions based on mediocre Obp 's (as I have with Grichuk and Pillar) people took it as a personal attack on the players. When in actuality it was a recognition of a particular flaw we weren't addressing in team building.

    OBP is often overlooked by fans. It shouldn't be, but for the most part it is. It's vital to the flow of an offense. It's one of the few things that the lack of, can't be hidden in your lineup, because by its very nature it will eventually show itself. It's the first stat I look at in players. That and situational hitting are the most overlooked factors by fans in my opinion.
    Last edited by mikepelfrey; 12-04-2018 at 10:32 AM.

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikepelfrey View Post
    No after all the Grief I took for panning their acquisition last year I wondered if anyone would have the courage to own up to the fact that Diaz and Solarte were mistakes.. You have to admit I was consistent. When I opposed the acquisitions based on mediocre Obp 's (as I have with Grichuk and Pillar) people took it as a personal attack on the players. When in actuality it was a recognition of a particular flaw we weren't addressing in team building.

    OBP is often overlooked by fans. It shouldn't be, but for the most part it is. It's vital to the flow of an offense. It's one of the few things that the lack of, can't be hidden in your lineup, because by its very nature it will eventually show itself. It's the first stat I look at in players. That and situational hitting are the most overlooked factors by fans in my opinion.
    My bad, you just wanted to say ďI told ya so!Ē

    Nobody was wrong about Solarte and you didnít prove any points. There was a mutual understanding amongst every poster in here (except you) that Diaz/Solarte were our new Barney/Goins. Nobody was expecting monster numbers from either of them. We were just expecting them to provide better depth for when JD/Tulo go down.

    Nobody took it as a personal attack on either of the players. You were just looking at both of those moves as if they were supposed to be big moves while everybody else understood they were just depth moves. Thatís all it was.
    Last edited by R. Johnson#3; 12-04-2018 at 12:27 PM.

  7. #187
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    You mentioned Grichuk too. Iím not arguing his OBP because itís bad but weíve become massive winners in that deal. Grichuk got better as the season progressed while Conner Greene got waived then claimed and traded in the rule 5 draft. So yes, as bad as Grichukís OBP is we still managed to turn a pitcher who still canít make it to the show into a CF with 25-30 HR power. Great move by the FO if you ask me.

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    You mentioned Grichuk too. Iím not arguing his OBP because itís bad but weíve become massive winners in that deal. Grichuk got better as the season progressed while Conner Greene got waived then claimed and traded in the rule 5 draft. So yes, as bad as Grichukís OBP is we still managed to turn a pitcher who still canít make it to the show into a CF with 25-30 HR power. Great move by the FO if you ask me.
    it wasnt just greene ,we also gave up our second best reliever in Leone. and im still not sure that Grichuk wont regress

  9. #189
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    Jan 2009
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    How you think Grichuk will regress is probably what they though would happen to Leone which it did. As for Solarte sure he was a mistake that cost basically nothing and Diaz actually had a decent year who turned into an asset this is unknown for nothing.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikepelfrey View Post
    it wasnt just greene ,we also gave up our second best reliever in Leone. and im still not sure that Grichuk wont regress
    Right, we actually moved two pieces of garbage that turned into something better. Leone had a great 2017 and then went right back to his usual self this season. Grich might regress, who knows? But for the time being I think itís safe to say that you were very wrong about that deal. I already have come out and ate my crow for the way I talked about Grich is April/May. If you grade that trade based on how everyone performed this past season then we were massive winners.

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikepelfrey View Post
    No after all the Grief I took for panning their acquisition last year I wondered if anyone would have the courage to own up to the fact that Diaz and Solarte were mistakes.. You have to admit I was consistent. When I opposed the acquisitions based on mediocre Obp 's (as I have with Grichuk and Pillar) people took it as a personal attack on the players. When in actuality it was a recognition of a particular flaw we weren't addressing in team building.

    OBP is often overlooked by fans. It shouldn't be, but for the most part it is. It's vital to the flow of an offense. It's one of the few things that the lack of, can't be hidden in your lineup, because by its very nature it will eventually show itself. It's the first stat I look at in players. That and situational hitting are the most overlooked factors by fans in my opinion.

    Oh my dear effing god. Seriously? Do you still not understand Diaz and Solarte were acquired with spare parts to be bench players on a team looking to compete for a wildcard and not 2 guys they traded significant assets for to be starters moving forward.

    When filling out a bench you can't be looking for a player who can do all of the following:

    -hit for average
    -hit for power
    -get on base
    -play solid defense.

    Those players don't come cheap enough to use a bench player...

    The grief you took (and are still going to take) is because you keep talking about those guys like they were acquired to be new core pieces. Even if you ignore that, Solarte and Diaz had histories of hitting better than they did for us last year. Diaz had a season with a .369 OBP in 2016. He wasn't that good all season, but he came close in the 2nd half. How many backup SS's put up better numbers than Diaz did last year? Solarte had a terrible season, and unfortunately for the Jays JD made him play essentially everyday (when he was healthy). When they acquired him though he was a player who had posted an OBP of .320 or higher in 3 of his first 4 seasons in the big leagues, with 2 seasons over .335 and a career high .341 in 2016. That's pretty good for a guy they were acquiring to be a backup . The move didn't pay off, but I don't think anyone saw JD missing essentially the entire season or Solarte falling off a cliff at age 30. Especially after Solarte got off to such a hot start in April. Luckily he was someone they could essentially keep as long as they wanted him though and not someone they were locked into a long term deal with.



    Low OBP is the reason I actually want to trade both Pillar and Hernandez. They can't have 3 everyday guys in the outfield who can't get on base. It is also why I am ready to move on from Devon Travis at 2B. If he doesn't hit well over .300 he isn't going to post a decent OBP either. Replace those 3 guys with speed guys who steal bases, hit doubles and get on base and this offense would be MUCH, MUCH better.
    Last edited by bartron_44; 12-05-2018 at 08:39 AM.

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    You mentioned Grichuk too. Iím not arguing his OBP because itís bad but weíve become massive winners in that deal. Grichuk got better as the season progressed while Conner Greene got waived then claimed and traded in the rule 5 draft. So yes, as bad as Grichukís OBP is we still managed to turn a pitcher who still canít make it to the show into a CF with 25-30 HR power. Great move by the FO if you ask me.
    Winners, I'd agree. Certainly not massive winners, that's reserved for trades like Bautista and EE and I highly doubt that Grichuk will reach either of those hitters realm. Grichuk posts a 2.2 WAR in 2018 and really that isn't anything special. The only way Grichuk has value to this team is if he plays CF and is the 5th or 6th best hitter on the team. He's not going to be one of the top 3 hitters on any AL playoff contending team.

  13. #193
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    Feb 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLeays View Post
    Winners, I'd agree. Certainly not massive winners, that's reserved for trades like Bautista and EE and I highly doubt that Grichuk will reach either of those hitters realm. Grichuk posts a 2.2 WAR in 2018 and really that isn't anything special. The only way Grichuk has value to this team is if he plays CF and is the 5th or 6th best hitter on the team. He's not going to be one of the top 3 hitters on any AL playoff contending team.
    You never know. The raw tools are there.

  14. #194
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    Ontario
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLeays View Post
    Winners, I'd agree. Certainly not massive winners, that's reserved for trades like Bautista and EE and I highly doubt that Grichuk will reach either of those hitters realm. Grichuk posts a 2.2 WAR in 2018 and really that isn't anything special. The only way Grichuk has value to this team is if he plays CF and is the 5th or 6th best hitter on the team. He's not going to be one of the top 3 hitters on any AL playoff contending team.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    You never know. The raw tools are there.
    I think he could be a good 6-7 hitter on a winning club. Not a core guy, but a guy that helps lengthen the lineup.

  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    You never know. The raw tools are there.
    I agree that the tools are there, it's the pitch recognition that's not. I've mentioned before that I don't believe this is something that can be "coached up."

    His career BB/K ratio is beyond atrocious. The majority of elite and even great hitters are typically well over the mark that Grichuk has and the only good MLB hitter that I can find that is close to Grichuk's number is Javier Baez. Other players that fell in line with Grichuk's career ratio last season were Longoria (huge dip off career), Dietrich, Tim Anderson, Chris Davis, Ryan Healy, Salvador Perez, and Pillar. I would love to see if there are any players that have had a BB/K ratio around .20 for a few seasons and then suddenly saw a spike. We're probably looking at another Colby Rasmus at best here.

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