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  1. #556
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    6,192
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamiecballer View Post
    I'm stoked, we got out of the 2 enormous anchors we took on in 2015.

    Sent from my SM-A520W using Tapatalk
    Yes they are .. It was a long time coming. Tulo I could care less, but I thank Martin for his services .

    These guys were just in the way .

    Spring training is in a couple of months!

  2. #557
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    56,111
    Martins contract wasnt really an anchor. It looked bad because he was making $20 mil but He cost $7 mil year one. If you spread it out, he would have cost $17 mil. At a 10 mil savings over tvm 5 years at a good rate and it more than makes up for a $3 mil backload.

    He was signed to a fair deal back then at the going rate

  3. #558
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    6,108
    Now time for Atkins to do something creative for us to get excited about rather than simply removing dead wood from the roster.
    Maybe trade Thornton back for Diaz . Or package some of the assorted crap he had acquired in trades and trade it for something legitamite to get excited about.

  4. #559
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
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    7,671
    Quote Originally Posted by wamco View Post
    Now time for Atkins to do something creative for us to get excited about rather than simply removing dead wood from the roster.
    Maybe trade Thornton back for Diaz . Or package some of the assorted crap he had acquired in trades and trade it for something legitamite to get excited about.
    I have a bad feeling we will just lose guys to rule 5 rather than consolidate assets.

  5. #560
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Rogers Centre
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    18,365
    Quote Originally Posted by LanceUpperCut View Post
    Tulo thatís nothing to be proud of but how can anyone not like getting rid of Martin for a couple specs and 4M? Seems better then I thought would happen.

    Iím glad that guys like Jansen and LGJ know there slotted into a starters role. Both deserve it and now itís time to move Smoak.
    100%. That's the move I wanted to see most at the start of the off-season. Just the fact the Tulo and Martin are off the roster is great. This teams direction is now crystal clear and in motion. I have a hard time believing Smoak will be on the Opening Day roster. With the way things have gone maybe even Pillar too.

  6. #561
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    11,406
    Yeah I figure Philly-TB-LAA and Colorado are all good trade partners.

  7. #562
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    300
    You are hallucinating wildly if you think the Jays are going to buy top shelf assets at this point. They are in the midst of an across-the-board, everything-must-go fire sale to free up spots for their top tier prospects to break through.

    I can't imagine any scenario where the club would look at Vlad, Bichette, Biggio and others and say "they can wait, lets get Diaz back in here....and trade some pitching for him!".

    Why can't some people accept that this is what's happening. I don't like following a losing team any more than anyone else but I would much rather be a fan of a rebuilding team with hope for the future than one just trying to patch holes and look for expensive free agents.

    Just sit tight and enjoy the kids this year, it will be well worth it a year or two down the line.

    Quote Originally Posted by wamco View Post
    Now time for Atkins to do something creative for us to get excited about rather than simply removing dead wood from the roster.
    Maybe trade Thornton back for Diaz . Or package some of the assorted crap he had acquired in trades and trade it for something legitamite to get excited about.

  8. #563
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    649
    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    Martins contract wasnt really an anchor. It looked bad because he was making $20 mil but He cost $7 mil year one. If you spread it out, he would have cost $17 mil. At a 10 mil savings over tvm 5 years at a good rate and it more than makes up for a $3 mil backload.

    He was signed to a fair deal back then at the going rate
    His contract should have been front loaded. He would have been easier to move at the end of the deal.

  9. #564
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    649
    Quote Originally Posted by mad_mooney View Post
    You are hallucinating wildly if you think the Jays are going to buy top shelf assets at this point. They are in the midst of an across-the-board, everything-must-go fire sale to free up spots for their top tier prospects to break through.

    I can't imagine any scenario where the club would look at Vlad, Bichette, Biggio and others and say "they can wait, lets get Diaz back in here....and trade some pitching for him!".

    Why can't some people accept that this is what's happening. I don't like following a losing team any more than anyone else but I would much rather be a fan of a rebuilding team with hope for the future than one just trying to patch holes and look for expensive free agents.

    Just sit tight and enjoy the kids this year, it will be well worth it a year or two down the line.
    I think WAMCO was being sarcastic by implying that Shakins just plain sucks

  10. #565
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    649
    Quote Originally Posted by R. Johnson#3 View Post
    100%. That's the move I wanted to see most at the start of the off-season. Just the fact the Tulo and Martin are off the roster is great. This teams direction is now crystal clear and in motion. I have a hard time believing Smoak will be on the Opening Day roster. With the way things have gone maybe even Pillar too.
    Definietly. Smoak and Pillar most definitely need to go. They are probably the most attractive trade pieces the Jays had going into the offseason. But is it better to trade them now or wait to the TDL? I think you trade them now to avoid losing value do to injury or poor performance.

  11. #566
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    Aug 2008
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    56,111
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderdan22 View Post
    His contract should have been front loaded. He would have been easier to move at the end of the deal.
    Never. If you are paying the exact same dollar value, you always backload than front load.

    Whatever money you save in the first few years, you invest then if its time to trade him, use the money you saved to eat a part of it. I rather sign a guy to $1 year one and $39 mil year 2 than pay him $20 each year. I basically invest $19 and then use the $19 to eat part of the contract so the opposing team will pay the same $20 rate. And I have interest as a bonus.

  12. #567
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    649
    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    Never. If you are paying the exact same dollar value, you always backload than front load.

    Whatever money you save in the first few years, you invest then if its time to trade him, use the money you saved to eat a part of it. I rather sign a guy to $1 year one and $39 mil year 2 than pay him $20 each year. I basically invest $19 and then use the $19 to eat part of the contract so the opposing team will pay the same $20 rate. And I have interest as a bonus.
    Or your able to move the contract much more easily, and probably have better prospects in return because you were able to move him sooner.

  13. #568
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    Aug 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderdan22 View Post
    Or your able to move the contract much more easily, and probably have better prospects in return because you were able to move him sooner.
    But you have money to pay for the salary. His contract at $10 million or his contract at $25 million but you pay $15 mil would result in the same net cost for the team trading for him.

    If Russell signed $82 million frontloaded, he's going to cost Y1 - $20, Y2 - $20, Y3 - $20, Y4 - $15, Y5 - $7. If Dodgers traded for him in before Y3, it would cost them the same whether it's frontloaded ($20 Y3 + $15 Y4 + $7 Y5 = $42) or backloaded ($20 Y3 + $20 Y4 + $20 Y5 - $18 cash sent by the Jays that they saved in Y1 + Y2 = $42). Blue Jays saved $18 mil in Y1 and Y2 to invest because instead of paying $40 mil, they only paid $22 mil ($7 + $15) with the hope of investing and then paying the salary (which gaining investment income during those 2 years).

    Teams run into issues because they spent the money they don't know how to plan their finances, but you always pay later if you know how to. Otherwise, they are missing out on x years worth of investment income at a percentage when the market and the entire economy was on fire.

  14. #569
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    649
    Quote Originally Posted by Raps08-09 Champ View Post
    But you have money to pay for the salary. His contract at $10 million or his contract at $25 million but you pay $15 mil would result in the same net cost for the team trading for him.

    If Russell signed $82 million frontloaded, he's going to cost Y1 - $20, Y2 - $20, Y3 - $20, Y4 - $15, Y5 - $7. If Dodgers traded for him in before Y3, it would cost them the same whether it's frontloaded ($20 Y3 + $15 Y4 + $7 Y5 = $42) or backloaded ($20 Y3 + $20 Y4 + $20 Y5 - $18 cash sent by the Jays that they saved in Y1 + Y2 = $42). Blue Jays saved $18 mil in Y1 and Y2 to invest because instead of paying $40 mil, they only paid $22 mil ($7 + $15) with the hope of investing and then paying the salary (which gaining investment income during those 2 years).

    Teams run into issues because they spent the money they don't know how to plan their finances, but you always pay later if you know how to. Otherwise, they are missing out on x years worth of investment income at a percentage when the market and the entire economy was on fire.
    I don't care about the money. I care about the return when a player is dealt.

  15. #570
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    56,111
    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderdan22 View Post
    I don't care about the money. I care about the return when a player is dealt.
    If the cost to the dodgers is the same, why would the return be any different?

    Whether his contract is $4 mil or his contract is $20 mil but Blue Jays pay $16 mil, it still has the exact same value at the same price to Dodgers. We would have gotten more or else the same return if Russells contract was $4 mil but didnt cover any money

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