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  1. #91
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    Nov 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by jay87shot View Post
    I think if we are to find a 2B platoon guy who can play SS to provide some security to Arcia I'd rather go with Freddy Galvis than Jose Igeleies. Both are great defenders and below average bats but Galvis will take a walk and is a switch hitter which would fit at least a platoon spot at SS or 2nd, although Iglesies would be completely fine. I'm pretty confident our heavy lifting is done until spring training. We will likely make some moves after a couple injuries to other teams or whatever happens then because of our pitching depth.

    SP- Chacin, Anderson, Davies, Nelson, Woodruff, Peralta, Burnes, Guerra, Suter (maybe eventually)
    RP- Hader, Jeffress, Knebel, Claudio, Albers, Barnes, Williams, Wahl, Petricka, Houser, Perdomo

    Not to mention some top prospects who are close and Thames or Kratz (Pina less likely) who could be traded on the offense side.
    I actually don't mind our current 2B platoon. Spang vs righties and Perez vs lefties last year would have combined for a just over 100 wRC+, which is league average for all hitters and above average for 2B. Given each guys history, that number can at least be somewhat attainable. Even if they combine for 95 wRC+, that's a big upgrade for little cost. And that makes sense to me, especially with guys like dubon and hiura waiting in the wings. I think the baseline of a spang/Perez platoon is at least passable, and the upside comes from dubon and hiura. I think I'm relatively comfortable with that, especially with grandal on board. Now that 2B spot hits 7th and not 6th.

  2. #92
    Join Date
    May 2016
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    Mukwonago, WI
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    1,535
    Quote Originally Posted by crewfan13 View Post
    I'm not a big fan of madbum. His numbers have begun to decline, granted his total innings have declined, but he's been sub 2 WAR for 2 years and his peripherals suggest his era was inflated to an extent. I like kluber because he has sustained success. Madbum really hasn't, so I'm not huge on giving up 2 legit assets for him.

    We dont need more starter depth. We need top line pitchers if we're getting a starter. To me, Madbum isnt that guy anymore. If he was a FA that could be signed to a 1 year deal or something, then I'd be willing to spend money on a bounceback. But giving up a few legit prospects for a bounceback candidate isn't a great plan in my mind. If Madbum finishes the year as a 2 WAR guy again, he's basically within a win or so from what he's replacing. If we got a 5 WAR player, he'd be basically +4 wins over the guy he'd be replacing. That's the type of guy I'd be looking to grab.

    And even if you're not huge on prospects, they're still assets. Teams will still value them. No sense giving up on them for a guy that isn't a major upgrade. As of last year, Peralta alone was within a half win of madbum in 30 less innings. Sustainability is a question with him, but he's also 21. If he develops a better breaking ball, he can be dangerous. His FIP actually suggests his ERA could improve without it though too.
    Guess I'm just higher on Madbum than others seem to be. Numbers are down because he's been hurt, non baseball related injury for the most part. Also San Fran is terrible so its possible he just isn't motivated. He's a guy that's been there and done that. I like his post season resume. He legit carried San Fran to the WS title.

    I also think his bat plays. NL team and you've got a pitcher that swing it. Maybe he doesn't have the dominant numbers Kluber does, but the asking price also seems like its significantly lower.

  3. #93
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    Nov 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by twellner9 View Post
    Guess I'm just higher on Madbum than others seem to be. Numbers are down because he's been hurt, non baseball related injury for the most part. Also San Fran is terrible so its possible he just isn't motivated. He's a guy that's been there and done that. I like his post season resume. He legit carried San Fran to the WS title.

    I also think his bat plays. NL team and you've got a pitcher that swing it. Maybe he doesn't have the dominant numbers Kluber does, but the asking price also seems like its significantly lower.
    Price is lower but the upgrade is also lower unless you think he bounces back, which is possible. But 2 straight years of injuries and mediocre peripherals scare me.

    And to your point earlier about the royals and where they are now. There's a very legit chance they end up here regardless of any win now deals. Hosmer and their pen got expensive. It's very likely something similar happens to us. Granted we have arb years left for longer, we have guys who will get expensive. So anything outside a 3 year window or so is expensive.

    Jeffress could get a big deal next offseason, especially with a good year this year. Knebel's arb is at $5.25 right now and he has 2 more years. Another good year and he'll continue to get pricey. Hader has probably 2 years ubtil he's looking at a $5+ million raise. Shaw will get pricier. Aguilar will eventually hit arb. That's why a 2-3 year window makes sense. Unless you're perfect in the draft and prospect deals, we're going to downgrade spots as guys get expensive.

  4. #94
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    May 2016
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    Mukwonago, WI
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    Well I'm assuming, and somewhat hoping, that the FO has the guts to make some tough call on guys and trade them away as they approach free agency, especially if we have a replacement ready in the minors. I do not see us holding Shaw, Aguilar, or Arcia on their second contract.

    Its a fine balance and I get that. Don't want to suck, especially when you're so close its hard to justify trading away solid players. But there's also the part of me that understands you can only pay so many guys and its a business. Needs to be a bit of a revolving door with our payroll limitations. Does anyone really think we'll be able to afford Yelich on his next deal? Hell Braun took the most team friendly deal in history and all anyone does now is complain about it.

  5. #95
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    Nov 2008
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    But you are very unlikely to actually compete that way. You have to be perfect with your trades and prospect evals, which virtually no one is.

    To me, loading up for a 2-3 year window makes the most sense for a small market. And unfortunately, unless they change the system, it always will. No team stays in the bottom half of the payroll and consistently competes. They may for a 3-5 year window but thats it. And at that point you need to either pony up and jump the payroll or you flip assets and start a reload or rebuild. Trying to buck that and be the first team to consistently compete on a middling payroll doesn't seem wise and likely leads to a playoff appearance every couple of years at best.

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