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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    I agree with Sabres assessment on Allen, but this was also expected. Even his biggest supporters didn't expect him to light the NFL world on fire in year one. He was very much a project and we need to be patient.

    For you guys that do think that he has played well, you're getting too caught up in some of the "wow" plays and ignoring the simple ones he routinely misses. This and his lack of pocket presence and inability to read defenses were his biggest concerns coming out of college and that hasn't changed.
    I don't think Allen has played well. He hasn't played well. But it's silly to compare him to other players 4.5 games into his career. Not all things are equal.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driven View Post
    I don't think Allen has played well. He hasn't played well. But it's silly to compare him to other players 4.5 games into his career. Not all things are equal.
    I don't think anything concrete can be drawn from anything. Way too small of a sample size. However, if someone wants to point out that he hasn't been as good as Darnold or Rosen, I think that's fair game considering that they are in equally poor situations. It means nothing long term though and my response to that is that those two came in as better QBs so it should've been expected.
    Last edited by smood999; 10-18-2018 at 01:12 PM.

  3. #18
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    I do not think they are in equally bad situations. You see the production from NYJ running game? That doesn't happen without an OL.
    Rosen was also expected to be ready right away, but with a limited ceiling. I compare him to Chad Pennington.

    Both were seen as more prepared for the NFL and less of a project. Allen is all ceiling - which is why it was so vital to handle him properly this first season.

    Not a single scouting report I read says that Allen is ready to lead a franchise right out of the draft.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    I do not think they are in equally bad situations. You see the production from NYJ running game? That doesn't happen without an OL.
    Rosen was also expected to be ready right away, but with a limited ceiling. I compare him to Chad Pennington.

    Both were seen as more prepared for the NFL and less of a project. Allen is all ceiling - which is why it was so vital to handle him properly this first season.

    Not a single scouting report I read says that Allen is ready to lead a franchise right out of the draft.
    The Jets had two monster rushing games...that's it, one of which Crowell had 200 yards. There has only been one other game where Crowell had more than 40 yards, which indicates that it was a fluke. Powell has been better, but nothing impressive.

    Also, if that's the case how can anyone say the Bills have had bad offensive lines the past few years when they've been one of the best rushing teams? There is a difference between run blocking and pass blocking.

    This is obviously not perfect, but the Jets offensive line grades as 21st overall, the Bills 30th, and the Cardinals 31st. If you watch all three teams, you will see that all three have major issues on the line.

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/new...s-after-week-6

    An argument can also be made that the Bills have the best skill position players of the bunch. It's definitely between the Bills and Cardinals and not the Jets.

    I agree with your opinion on Allen, that's why I've posted that it should've been expected. That's also why a lot of people were down on him from the beginning. His ceiling is completely related to his big arm, not actual QB play.
    Last edited by smood999; 10-18-2018 at 04:47 PM.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    The Jets and Cardinals are in the same situation, if not worse. I get that they have veteran QBs in McCown and Bradford, but that doesn't excuse that their offensive lines and WRs are terrible. However, no one is complaining that Darnold and Rosen are getting ruined.

    I get it. We wanted a rookie QB to be in a perfect situation, but it doesn't work that way all of the time. The Bills haven't done Allen any favors, but Allen also hasn't played well even when given good opportunities to make a play.

    Ripper, you're going to see what you want to see because you were a very strong supporter of Allen to begin with. He has not played well even under these circumstances. Please go watch a Jets or Cardinals game and tell me the difference. I live in the NY/NJ area and get to see the Jets first hand. Are you clamoring for Robby Anderson to be the Bills number 1 WR? Do you even know who he is? That's Darnold's top target. You can see a clear difference between Darnold or Rosen and Allen and they are all in terrible situations.

    We knew that Allen wasn't as good as these other guys going in, so we just have to be patient. Pretending that he has actually been good though, despite the circumstances, is absolutely wrong. It does go both ways.
    Darnoldís top target is actually Enunwa, not Anderson, and heís one of the most underrated players in football at any position. Enunwa, Anderson, Kearse isnít a bad mix to work with.

    Allenís performance in week 3 against one of the best defenses in the NFL is still the top performance of any rookie QB this year. Darnold has been more steady across the board, but Allen has hit the highest high so far this year.

    Nobody said Allen was ruined. His situation was just a lost cause. And Iím a believer in having a veteran around. Way too many QBs have credited the veteran that was there to learn from early in their careers. I expected growing pains with Allen, and Iíve honestly seen good to great QB play at times. Itís just the situation that sucks. Rosenís too.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack the Ripper View Post
    Darnoldís top target is actually Enunwa, not Anderson, and heís one of the most underrated players in football at any position. Enunwa, Anderson, Kearse isnít a bad mix to work with.

    Allenís performance in week 3 against one of the best defenses in the NFL is still the top performance of any rookie QB this year. Darnold has been more steady across the board, but Allen has hit the highest high so far this year.

    Nobody said Allen was ruined. His situation was just a lost cause. And Iím a believer in having a veteran around. Way too many QBs have credited the veteran that was there to learn from early in their careers. I expected growing pains with Allen, and Iíve honestly seen good to great QB play at times. Itís just the situation that sucks. Rosenís too.
    Enunwa, the 6th round pick, that last played two years ago, and that is currently out again right now? How is he one of the most underrated players in football, when he's only had one decent season in now his fourth year in the league? He is a good player, but he's clearly not a number one. Is he any different than someone like Cam Meredith? Kearse and Anderson is like having two Zay Jones. Neither one is very good.

    I'm not taking anything away from Allen at all. That game was impressive and I didn't say it wasn't. I suppose Allen has had the highest high...I'm not too sure about that, but I guess it can be argued. I wouldn't say we've seen good to great QB play at times though. To me, it was more moments, rather than sustained play, mixed in with missing plays that all QBs have to make in the NFL. It's the story of his college career basically.

    The only point I was trying to make though is that Allen doesn't have the absolute worst situation. Maybe it's the worst situation for a player like him. That I can agree with, since he was clearly coming in needing more work than the others.
    Last edited by smood999; 10-18-2018 at 09:33 PM.

  7. #22
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    Rosen had a horrible game tonight. These things happen to rookies.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driven View Post
    Rosen had a horrible game tonight. These things happen to rookies.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Absolutely.

  9. #24
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    I don't know the jets WR's, but what I'm hearing is they have a solid #2 and a couple zay's.

    If zay is Allen's #1 threat then it sounds like the jets have a much better staff.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    I don't know the jets WR's, but what I'm hearing is they have a solid #2 and a couple zay's.

    If zay is Allen's #1 threat then it sounds like the jets have a much better staff.
    No, they have a bunch of 4's and maybe one 3 in Enunwa, who is currently hurt. I don't think Robby Anderson or Kearse are guaranteed to make another NFL team after they leave the Jets.

  11. #26
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    https://www.profootballfocus.com/new...through-week-4


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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by smood999 View Post
    Enunwa, the 6th round pick, that last played two years ago, and that is currently out again right now? How is he one of the most underrated players in football, when he's only had one decent season in now his fourth year in the league? He is a good player, but he's clearly not a number one. Is he any different than someone like Cam Meredith? Kearse and Anderson is like having two Zay Jones. Neither one is very good.

    I'm not taking anything away from Allen at all. That game was impressive and I didn't say it wasn't. I suppose Allen has had the highest high...I'm not too sure about that, but I guess it can be argued. I wouldn't say we've seen good to great QB play at times though. To me, it was more moments, rather than sustained play, mixed in with missing plays that all QBs have to make in the NFL. It's the story of his college career basically.

    The only point I was trying to make though is that Allen doesn't have the absolute worst situation. Maybe it's the worst situation for a player like him. That I can agree with, since he was clearly coming in needing more work than the others.
    I donít care what round he was taken in. Enunwa, right now, is better than any receiver on our roster and over the last year and a half has been underappreciated for what he contributes. He has been one of the better YAC receivers in the league since he broke out in 2016. The link that Driven shared actually backs up that statement.

    Quincy Enunwa has been the clear bright spot for this group, earning an 81.8 overall grade that is tied for 14th on the year. No player has done more on throws targeted behind the line of scrimmage than Enunwa, as he has produced a league-high 96 receiving yards and converted six of his nine targets on those throws into first downs.

    Iím not throwing any shade at Zay Jones, but if he is your top receiver youíve got problems. Kelvin Benjamin is the lazy prick that everybody said he was when he came over. Heís a classic case of name recognition because he was a former 1st round pick, but in reality you find out how overrated he is once he plays for your team and you watch him every Sunday. Our coach called out the whole group in pre-season for not fighting for balls. They still arenít. No run-after-the-catch ability. The group sucks. Period.

  13. #28
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    Possibly the worst group of RAC recievers I have ever seen.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChongInc. View Post
    Possibly the worst group of RAC recievers I have ever seen.
    Kelvin Benjamin isnít running anywhere, except maybe the buffet line.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack the Ripper View Post
    I donít care what round he was taken in. Enunwa, right now, is better than any receiver on our roster and over the last year and a half has been underappreciated for what he contributes. He has been one of the better YAC receivers in the league since he broke out in 2016. The link that Driven shared actually backs up that statement.

    Quincy Enunwa has been the clear bright spot for this group, earning an 81.8 overall grade that is tied for 14th on the year. No player has done more on throws targeted behind the line of scrimmage than Enunwa, as he has produced a league-high 96 receiving yards and converted six of his nine targets on those throws into first downs.

    Iím not throwing any shade at Zay Jones, but if he is your top receiver youíve got problems. Kelvin Benjamin is the lazy prick that everybody said he was when he came over. Heís a classic case of name recognition because he was a former 1st round pick, but in reality you find out how overrated he is once he plays for your team and you watch him every Sunday. Our coach called out the whole group in pre-season for not fighting for balls. They still arenít. No run-after-the-catch ability. The group sucks. Period.
    Enunwa is out now so it doesn't even matter. Also, how much better are we talking. It's not a drastic upgrade even if true. You're splitting hairs. That's the point I'm making right now. Not only that, he hasn't played in two seasons. He's had one good/healthy season in his four years in the league. Where's the breakout?

    Also, he didn't even play in 2014 so I'm not sure what you're even looking at. Is YAC how you make the determination of a good WR? You're better than using his yardage on screen passes. He's decent, but right now you are clearly over stating how good he is to try to prove a point when the guy isn't even playing right now.
    Last edited by smood999; 10-20-2018 at 04:14 PM.

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