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  1. #10231
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialFNK View Post
    why are mail in ballots still necessary, not only is America reopening with masks and people that should be social distancing, there are millions of people protesting not social distancing and some without masks.
    Because some people have a problem making it to a polling place, like for instance if they are in a foreign country ... like one to the north.

  2. #10232
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    Sep 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    Voter ID laws are terrible in this country too- they make it harder for the poor and disenfranchised to vote. Polling places need to stay open, especially in poor areas. Early voting needs to be universal. Voting days need to be on more than one day, be a holiday, or a weekend.

    Should be mandatory pto for voting also.
    1. Voter ID laws are going to be needed eventually, might as well move on from that and focus on making them as easy and automatic as possible.

    2. Voting being available all the time will make it easiest 365 24x7.

    3. We can collect votes at every post office, every DMV, every tax office. No need to have special polling places. And, you know, the internet is pretty handy and with cell phones almost everyone has access. And I think nearly every public library has a free internet portal.

    4. "Mandatory PTO" means that it's going to take my PTO for me to vote, which is what it does now, IF I want to vote during the day and not on my lunch. I think what you meant was that it should be paid leave without using PTO time ... but I don't think that makes sense. Just make voting so incredibly easy that it almost becomes difficult to not have an easy opportunity to vote.

  3. #10233
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    IL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    1. Voter ID laws are going to be needed eventually, might as well move on from that and focus on making them as easy and automatic as possible.

    2. Voting being available all the time will make it easiest 365 24x7.

    3. We can collect votes at every post office, every DMV, every tax office. No need to have special polling places. And, you know, the internet is pretty handy and with cell phones almost everyone has access. And I think nearly every public library has a free internet portal.

    4. "Mandatory PTO" means that it's going to take my PTO for me to vote, which is what it does now, IF I want to vote during the day and not on my lunch. I think what you meant was that it should be paid leave without using PTO time ... but I don't think that makes sense. Just make voting so incredibly easy that it almost becomes difficult to not have an easy opportunity to vote.
    As far as PTO, I mean it should be mandatory additional days for the sole intent of voting.

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  4. #10234
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    America
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    94,127
    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    1. Voter ID laws are going to be needed eventually, might as well move on from that and focus on making them as easy and automatic as possible.

    2. Voting being available all the time will make it easiest 365 24x7.

    3. We can collect votes at every post office, every DMV, every tax office. No need to have special polling places. And, you know, the internet is pretty handy and with cell phones almost everyone has access. And I think nearly every public library has a free internet portal.

    4. "Mandatory PTO" means that it's going to take my PTO for me to vote, which is what it does now, IF I want to vote during the day and not on my lunch. I think what you meant was that it should be paid leave without using PTO time ... but I don't think that makes sense. Just make voting so incredibly easy that it almost becomes difficult to not have an easy opportunity to vote.
    Given that there is absolutely no evidence that voter fraud is occurring and 50 different Secretaries of State out there investigating these claims, it would seem that this claim is bunk.
    Prior to 11/1/19: if you were on my ignore list, I was sticking to ignoring you thanks to great advise.
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  5. #10235
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    Sep 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by blams View Post
    As far as PTO, I mean it should be mandatory additional days for the sole intent of voting.
    No need to take time off if we build it the way I said. If you can vote online, at the post office, at the DMV, at any tax office, and do it any day of the year 24x7 ... you don't need time off to vote. You'd be able to vote sitting on the toilet ... multi-tasking.

  6. #10236
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    Dec 2007
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    Washington
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Right.

    And if they get "caught by the millions," that would indicate that there are many more millions that do not get caught.

    Thanks for your help.
    Yes we’re assuming that because millions are caught there are many more that don’t get caught.

    But we aren’t catching millions of instances of voter fraud, we’re catching almost none.

    So with theft it’s “we know there’s much more going on because of how many were catching”

    And with voter fraud it’s “despite us not catching hardly anyone, I still think there’s much more going on”.

    Since you are so open to my help, here it is:

    Google ‘logic 101’ and just start reading everything you can. If you have questions on what logic is or how to use it, let me know.

  7. #10237
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    Sep 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    Given that there is absolutely no evidence that voter fraud is occurring and 50 different Secretaries of State out there investigating these claims, it would seem that this claim is bunk.
    What claim? That voter ID is going to be needed eventually? It's going to be needed in some form for online voting. And there are very few people who believe we will never go to online voting. If nothing else the voting computers used at polling places need to be improved and one of their big issues is that databases REALLY like unique IDs to connect data to to avoid losing data or mis-referencing data.

  8. #10238
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    South Dakota
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    14,061
    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    No need to take time off if we build it the way I said. If you can vote online, at the post office, at the DMV, at any tax office, and do it any day of the year 24x7 ... you don't need time off to vote. You'd be able to vote sitting on the toilet ... multi-tasking.
    Well, there'd likely need to be a more defined time period where voting is open.
    Paying people to vote (as in employers having to pay employees during the time they're voting) is, in this day and age, an unnecessary burden on employers. Employees abuse it by being gone twice the amount of time it actually took to vote anyway. If they just did it at their leisure over a 2-3 week period, nobody'd balk and a higher percentage would vote because they're not being inconvenienced to do it.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  9. #10239
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    Mar 2018
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    6,501
    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    Yes we’re assuming that because millions are caught there are many more that don’t get caught.

    But we aren’t catching millions of instances of voter fraud, we’re catching almost none.

    So with theft it’s “we know there’s much more going on because of how many were catching”

    And with voter fraud it’s “despite us not catching hardly anyone, I still think there’s much more going on”.

    Since you are so open to my help, here it is:

    Google ‘logic 101’ and just start reading everything you can. If you have questions on what logic is or how to use it, let me know.
    Give me a break here.

    Voter fraud is very difficult if not often impossible to catch. The example I gave before…I get the three people in my household to sign their ballot and I then fill it in and mail it in, would be impossible to catch. Impossible. What makes you think that this will really not happen???

    Cut to the chase here…what is the real reason you do not want identified in person voting???

  10. #10240
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    Dec 2007
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    Washington
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Give me a break here.

    Voter fraud is very difficult if not often impossible to catch. The example I gave before…I get the three people in my household to sign their ballot and I then fill it in and mail it in, would be impossible to catch. Impossible. What makes you think that this will really not happen???

    Cut to the chase here…what is the real reason you do not want identified in person voting???
    You talk about the impossibility of catching that crime, but look at the impossibility to commit that crime. Why would 3 people in the household knowingly sign a voter packet and then not fill it out? How often do you think that happens?

    The real reason I don’t want identifiable in-person voting is because it stops millions of legally able citizens to vote to combat a problem that nobody can prove exists and does not exist. You talk about how hard voter fraud is to prove, but your ilk have been trying for years to uncover it. Trump convened a special commission whose sole job was to expose voter fraud. They closed up shop because they couldn’t find any. It’s not that it’s the perfect crime to never get caught, it’s that there’s just not as much of it going on as you keep saying.

    So let’s cut to the real chase: why do you not want people voting?

  11. #10241
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    Feb 2005
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    South Dakota
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    Give me a break here.

    Voter fraud is very difficult if not often impossible to catch. The example I gave before…I get the three people in my household to sign their ballot and I then fill it in and mail it in, would be impossible to catch. Impossible. What makes you think that this will really not happen???

    Cut to the chase here…what is the real reason you do not want identified in person voting???
    How often would there be much of a difference in how the 3 in the same household would ACTUALLY vote?

    It's not a matter of not wanting in person voting, is it? It's a matter of expanding the options not requiring it......is a millennial more or less likely to stand in line to vote vs voting online? Is an elderly person more or less likely to vote in person vs voting by mail? For me a HUGE reason to increase the options is to increase the percentage of people registering AND voting.
    gotta love 'referential' treatment

  12. #10242
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    Mar 2018
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    You talk about the impossibility of catching that crime, but look at the impossibility to commit that crime. Why would 3 people in the household knowingly sign a voter packet and then not fill it out? How often do you think that happens?

    The real reason I don’t want identifiable in-person voting is because it stops millions of legally able citizens to vote to combat a problem that nobody can prove exists and does not exist. You talk about how hard voter fraud is to prove, but your ilk have been trying for years to uncover it. Trump convened a special commission whose sole job was to expose voter fraud. They closed up shop because they couldn’t find any. It’s not that it’s the perfect crime to never get caught, it’s that there’s just not as much of it going on as you keep saying.

    So let’s cut to the real chase: why do you not want people voting?
    1st Bolded…A lot. Probably a huge amount.

    2nd Bolded…how are "millions of legally able citizens" prevented from voting??? Early voting gives them plenty of time to get out of the house to a nearby voting place. Plenty of time to do something if they really want to do it.

    And the "if they really want to do it" factor opens up a whole different channel. There are plenty of people that do not vote because they do not care one way or another what happens in an election. People such as this would happily sign over their ballots to any family member, friend or whatever. It's like signing a petition handed out by a friend or neighbor. Tons of people will sign without even reading it.

    Early voting, ID'd voting completely eliminates this possibility,

  13. #10243
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Washington
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    35,686
    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggo1 View Post
    1st Bolded…A lot. Probably a huge amount.

    2nd Bolded…how are "millions of legally able citizens" prevented from voting??? Early voting gives them plenty of time to get out of the house to a nearby voting place. Plenty of time to do something if they really want to do it.

    And the "if they really want to do it" factor opens up a whole different channel. There are plenty of people that do not vote because they do not care one way or another what happens in an election. People such as this would happily sign over their ballots to any family member, friend or whatever. It's like signing a petition handed out by a friend or neighbor. Tons of people will sign without even reading it.

    Early voting, ID'd voting completely eliminates this possibility,
    First Bolded: Based on what? No need to answer, I know you have no actual evidence for this.

    Second Bolded: Except all the places trying to eliminate vote by mail generally don’t have early voting (or very restrictive times/dates).

    The entire Crux of your proposal is we should implement these strict measures to stop something you have no evidence is happening you just feel like it happens a lot. Honestly, I don’t care how reasonable you think your ideas are, until we get over the why you want them implemented, specifically that there’s more justification than your hunch, I wouldn’t be in favor of them.

    I think we should have a valid reason for proposals beyond your gut feeling.

  14. #10244
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    Mar 2018
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    6,501
    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    First Bolded: Based on what? No need to answer, I know you have no actual evidence for this.

    Second Bolded: Except all the places trying to eliminate vote by mail generally don’t have early voting (or very restrictive times/dates).

    The entire Crux of your proposal is we should implement these strict measures to stop something you have no evidence is happening you just feel like it happens a lot. Honestly, I don’t care how reasonable you think your ideas are, until we get over the why you want them implemented, specifically that there’s more justification than your hunch, I wouldn’t be in favor of them.

    I think we should have a valid reason for proposals beyond your gut feeling.
    Para 1…common sense would tell you this happens. Not something you see much of here.

    Para 2…so start early voting. Frankly, I can't believe there are places that do not have early voting. And in person ID'd voting allows secure voting for those who actually want to vote. Mail in allows encourage selections to those who don't really care one way or the other. Also allows for vote harvesting which will go on.

    Let's be honest here…mail ins vastly swing this to the dems which is why so many of you are in favor of it. If repubs would benefit from it, you would never hear about it. You all come out with the sob story of all those that cannot get to the polls. C'mon. You act as if half the population is bed ridden. The vast majority of people are out and about during a 2 week period. It's no big deal. For all those bed ridden and hospitalized, polling personnel could physically visit facilities on a county wide basis. Or use absentee ballots (which will miraculously pop up after the election) for those such people.

    I'm in favor of mandatory identified voting, and make it easy it easy to vote (mostly by early voting) in person. Mail in voting is a scam.

  15. #10245
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
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    4,831
    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    No need to take time off if we build it the way I said. If you can vote online, at the post office, at the DMV, at any tax office, and do it any day of the year 24x7 ... you don't need time off to vote. You'd be able to vote sitting on the toilet ... multi-tasking.
    Some people work long hours for low pay. Usually minorities. They should get paid time off to vote.
    "The hottest places in hell are reserved for those who, in times of great moral crisis, maintain their neutrality.”

    -JFK


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