The 2020 Presidential Race

[ManRam]

Thinking about the BS Trump is going to do as this gets serious is just depressing.

4 years ago I was saying that I hoped the Dems cleaned up their house and put their best foot forward. Now I'm looking at another 4 years of hoping the same thing.

I'm going on vacation for a while so lucky for all of you this is the last meandering and *****y post for a while!

I think we'll get some clarity on all this. Maybe I'm getting carried away. Maybe I'm wrong about Biden. Maybe he handily beats Trump.

But to me this is just deja vu from 2016 and I'm having a hard time seeing it as anything else. No one has learned their lesson, and we've known this for years. The Liberal establishment and media have proven to be ill-equipped to oppose Trump and craft an inspiring and winning message. It's all just empty resistance with plan for what comes after. Without Trump they'd have nothing. In many ways he's their greatest gift because it at least lets them pretend like they're actually doing something admirable. And now we have a "return to normalcy" candidate. How brave.

Like imagine if Maddow didn't spend 250,000 hours talking about Russia or Mueller or a phone call and instead put someone on TV every night who is struggling to pay for their insulin? Or a family of someone killed in a useless war or a Fentanyl overdose? Or someone living with hundreds of thousands of dollars of medical debt? Or literally anything. Imagine if Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer had spent 3+ years promoting policy that could win over the votes of struggling Americans instead of throwing all their eggs into fruitless baskets that the average checked out voter could not care less about? If they even pretended to care about lifting people up.

Instead we're left with a bunch of Boomer Democrats and people whose brains have been turned to mush by the media who think "beat Trump" is the only policy that matters. It's selfishness. More than ever, this election should be about the future of this country. About a path forward and ways to deal with the many crises we face. From climate change to inequality to forever wars to a healthcare costs to mass incarceration and so on and so on and so on. But to so many, especially people like Joe, it's just about their fear of Trump and nothing else. He's comfort for the privileged.

Not voting for the nominee is something that's crossed my mind for the first time ever. I don't want to vote for Joe Biden, but I probably will suck it up. But man, voting for Hillary was depressing enough. You're going to make us do it again? Make me vote for someone with such disdain for the generation he'll be leaving the world behind to? A gropey pathological liar? The crime bill guy? The war on drugs guy? The NAFTA, DOMA, PATRIOT Act guy? The anti-abortion and anti-busing guy? The crusader against social security, medicare and medicaid guy? The guy who doesn't get the severity of climate change and the student debt crisis? The Anita Hill silencer? The Strom Thurmon eulogizer? The let's make my state the biggest tax haven in the country guy? The deregulator? The sundowning guy?

I don't know man. I like to think I'm principled...

[ManRam]

See we actually do agree on some things.

This is a layup.

I mean, I don't even think we do

I think Trump will try to run to the left of Biden on some things, but that has nothing to do with him being morally correct it just has to do with Biden's history of bad things.

The extent of Trump's criminal justice reform amounts to pardoning a few deserving people, a few of underserving people, and one bill that does almost nothing to fix the greater problem. You and I both know he, and most Republicans, don't care that we lock up more people than any other country. Don't care that so many people are rotting in jail because of non-violent drug charges. Don't care about any of it.

Biden can be hit for it but Trump's still a nothing in regards to criminal justice reform and pretending to have any sort of high ground, even over bad Democrats, is silly. Don't.

[dbroncos78087]

I mean, I don't even think we do

I think Trump will try to run to the left of Biden on some things, but that has nothing to do with him being morally correct it just has to do with Biden's history of bad things.

The extent of Trump's criminal justice reform amounts to pardoning a few deserving people, a few of underserving people, and one bill that does almost nothing to fix the greater problem. You and I both know he, and most Republicans, don't care that we lock up more people than any other country. Don't care that so many people are rotting in jail because of non-violent drug charges. Don't care about any of it.

Biden can be hit for it but Trump's still a nothing in regards to criminal justice reform and pretending to have any sort of high ground, even over bad Democrats, is silly. Don't.

Locking 1000 black people up with their policies so they can pardon 1 and appear humane. It's not a bad strategy, obviously bad for a whole host of other reasons though. But politically since most people won't look at how the GOP policies have targeted being black as if it were a crime.

[turnaround3]

I mean, I don't even think we do

I think Trump will try to run to the left of Biden on some things, but that has nothing to do with him being morally correct it just has to do with Biden's history of bad things.

The extent of Trump's criminal justice reform amounts to pardoning a few deserving people, a few of underserving people, and one bill that does almost nothing to fix the greater problem. You and I both know he, and most Republicans, don't care that we lock up more people than any other country. Don't care that so many people are rotting in jail because of non-violent drug charges. Don't care about any of it.

Biden can be hit for it but Trump's still a nothing in regards to criminal justice reform and pretending to have any sort of high ground, even over bad Democrats, is silly. Don't.

Ahh, you're right then yeah we definitely don't agree. Fundamentally anyway. But at surface level maybe.

I think Trump might care about people wasting away in jail on weed (and such) charges *only* to the extent he's capable of caring about anyone or anything that isn't himself personally - which is not very much. But I do think he actually believes, as many do, that the amount of people locked up for nonsense pot **** is blatantly, demonstrably, high - and there's plenty of other reasons other than compassion for the offenders themselves that will make sense to a guy like him. I'm not saying it's high on his priority list - it's not - but you can be a dope like Trump and still see how plainly stupid it is to be wasting government dollars on the imprisonment of very low level drug offenders.

What I meant that we agree on is that the surest (arguably the only) thing Trump will try to run left of Biden on is incarceration. It's an exploitable area of Biden's, and Trump is the ultimate hammer in search of any available nail. Dude wakes up in the morning barking at his team to find him soft spots such as these.

[valade16]

Among dems that voted in the primary, which is the issue. The bet here, and in 2016, is/was whether base wont show up to vote for bernie or that bernie's base wont show up for joe. Look at who those voters are and what motivates them.

Well Bernie's base didn't even show up to vote for him so if I were Democrats, I'd go with the assumption they probably aren't going to show up period.

[benny01]

Well Bernie's base didn't even show up to vote for him so if I were Democrats, I'd go with the assumption they probably aren't going to show up period.

They didnt? How are you defining bernies base?

[turnaround3]

They didnt? How are you defining bernies base?

I won't answer for Valade but I'd define it as 20somethings on Twitter who are big on caps lock but not big on having a ****ing clue where their polling place is.

[valade16]

They didnt? How are you defining bernies base?

Young voters:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ff10d49ac2c83/

[benny01]

I won't answer for Valade but I'd define it as 20somethings on Twitter who are big on caps lock but not big on having a ****ing clue where their polling place is.

Shocking. The question I'm asking is who is a bernie supporter and what motivates them versus a biden supporter and what motivates them. I'm getting in return an analysis of a democratic primary, which has nothing to do with my question. I'm not asking a question about politics, my question is about identity and why people vote. I would suspect that if in a democratic primary, one in which you must identify as a Democrat to vote in, that the overwhelming majority of those people will be voting and voting Democrat in the next election. They have already taken the time to vote in a primary and identified as a democrat while doing so. This takes us back to the myth of the moderate voter, which you believe is hocus pocus.

[valade16]

I won't answer for Valade but I'd define it as 20 somethings on Twitter who are big on caps lock but not big on having a ****ing clue where their polling place is.

Essentially yes, I meant younger voters roughly between 18-30. And although they did not come out to vote for Bernie this year, I cannot verify if the reason you gave was the cause (though as hypothesis go, I don't think it's a bad one).

[GGGGG-Men]

After years of supporting Bernie I went with Warren on an early ballot and then she dropped out. Ugh. She likely can’t beat Trump but her measured approach on all issues and the way she handled Bloomberg was fantastic.

I cannot stand Biden and am a regular third party voter, but watching Bernie’s twitter base constantly say that Biden is no better than Trump has really pushed me away. It’s ****ing insane that they’d rather completely implode everyone than have their guy lose. Granted the other side is rigging the process against Bernie, no doubt. And I’ve been in that Bernie camp for the sake of primary wins for Bernie but we’re too close now for that BS.

Watching Trumps completely inept ability at handling a crisis and actually continuing his divisive tactics through it has made me completely fine with the idea of a Biden presidency. He’s way more conservative than me on every issue but enough is enough.

We’ve got a thin skinned egomaniac who gutted the government over a personal hate of his predecessor and now we all get to deal with the repercussions. There is literally no bottom. He’ll watch us all burn before ever making an attempt at being a calm rationale uniting leader.

I can’t believe it but I’m in the “blue no matter who” camp now. ****.

[ManRam]

This guy's about as Jewish as Trump is Christian.

Bernie is a Jewish man who lost his family when they killed by Nazis during the Holocaust. So, you can **** right off with this, especially if that's your takeaway from some far-right dipshit waving a Nazi flag at a speech of his.

Questioning people's Jewishness is a classic antisemitism. If you were a little Muslim lady FNK would make a thread and post in it about 5,430 times telling us how horrible you are. But he's a bad faith moron who is only motivated by his Islamaphobia, not some sense of morality. Bernie has spoken on his faith plenty but he is a Jew, end of story. In fact, he is the most viable Jew in this country. Just because he doesn't meet your standards means nothing. It just means you said something really stupid.

Remember Chris Matthews compared him to the Nazis too?

Yet all anyone can talk about, including the seemingly like-minded Elizabeth Warren, are vague internet trolls and emojis. All in an effort to stop him from becoming President.

[spliff(TONE)]

Marijuana. I have a feeling Trump is going to federally legalize it or something along those lines to get more votes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I can't see either Trump or Biden spearheading such an effort.

[spliff(TONE)]

Always keep in mind that the Clintons and Obamas are in the background.

There are still plenty of strings to be pulled.

Hard not to when you bring it up every few days.

[ManRam]

After years of supporting Bernie I went with Warren on an early ballot and then she dropped out. Ugh. She likely can’t beat Trump but her measured approach on all issues and the way she handled Bloomberg was fantastic.

I cannot stand Biden and am a regular third party voter, but watching Bernie’s twitter base constantly say that Biden is no better than Trump has really pushed me away. It’s ****ing insane that they’d rather completely implode everyone than have their guy lose. Granted the other side is rigging the process against Bernie, no doubt. And I’ve been in that Bernie camp for the sake of primary wins for Bernie but we’re too close now for that BS.

Watching Trumps completely inept ability at handling a crisis and actually continuing his divisive tactics through it has made me completely fine with the idea of a Biden presidency. He’s way more conservative than me on every issue but enough is enough.

We’ve got a thin skinned egomaniac who gutted the government over a personal hate of his predecessor and now we all get to deal with the repercussions. There is literally no bottom. He’ll watch us all burn before ever making an attempt at being a calm rationale uniting leader.

I can’t believe it but I’m in the “blue no matter who” camp now. ****.

Sad to see this man.

I can't stress this enough: Biden will not fight for anything resembling Elizabeth Warren's platform.

"I agree with Bernie’s policies but hate his supporters so I won’t vote for him.” Sorry if I sound like a Bernie Bro, but that is profoundly selfish and silly. You aren't punishing his supporters who say mean things to people on Twitter. You're punishing the people that you and Elizabeth claimed to believe needed the help the most. Voting for Biden sets us back so much. He has no vision for the future. I get people who don't know better, but not you. You know better.

I think this phenomenon of supposed progressives who think poor people who want better for the world are being too rude online is a reason to abandon everything they claimed to believe in politically drives me more insane than anything else. That's probably clear today!

Peter Daou was the biggest Clinton Troll there was in 2016. He's seen the light. And he puts it best: