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  1. #7111
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    The green new deal would create countless jobs in those struggling regions. Even here in Western PA, fracking in not largely supported. Do I expect Sanders to win over all, or even many, of the conservatives here? No. Do I think there are lots of people struggling to find high-paying jobs here that might see the appeal in a union supporting, green new deal touting, presidential candidate? Yes. I do. Also, it's interesting the right doesn't bring up coal jobs anymore. Wonder why? Oh yeah, Trump hasn't delivered and coal is a dying industry. What they need are new, higher paying green jobs. They need saving and the right has no answers. None at all. I think there are inroads to be made from the left.

    Why is private insurance better than single payer again? No one likes their insurance; they like their doctors. Under single payer no one, including union workers, will have to worry about losing their insurance ever. I'm 30 and have had 4 different insurance plans in my adult life. Your messaging probably isn't going to win out.

    Look at what happened in Nevada. The Culinary Union which is massive there for obvious reasons, didn't endorse Sanders because they liked the insurance plan they negotiated. Guess what, the actual union members showed out in massive numbers for Sanders. Your message is a losing one.

    And if Sanders gets his way, you'll have health insurance for less than you pay now whether you like it or not!
    Your answer is the Green New Deal... That same deal that was destroyed in the Senate? Good luck with that bud.

  2. #7112
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    Quote Originally Posted by nessythegreat View Post
    Your answer is the Green New Deal... That same deal that was destroyed in the Senate? Good luck with that bud.
    It didn't get destroyed. You are getting tricked by fake news on that one.
    Prior to 11/1/19: if you were on my ignore list, I was sticking to ignoring you thanks to great advise.
    From 11/1/19 on: I will no longer be responding to comments back to people on my ignore list.
    _____

    Think long and hard about why you respond to nonsense. Please!


  3. #7113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    Saw “American Factory” a couple months ago. Kind of a creepy piece — a clash of cultures — but definitely worth watching.
    In all honesty I didn't really always know how I felt about it. I just think at the very least it offered some necessary insight onto something pretty important.
    PSD'S RESIDENT BERNIE BROTHER

  4. #7114
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    Quote Originally Posted by nessythegreat View Post
    Your answer is the Green New Deal... That same deal that was destroyed in the Senate? Good luck with that bud.
    Yes, that is my answer. You asked how his message will play, and that's his message. I think it will resonate with enough people to potentially win these states. It's a solution to the problem.

    I understand the uphill battle many of his policy wants face. That doesn't mean he shouldn't fight the good fight. Winning the Presidency would legitimatize much of his platform. A referendum. Like it did, unfortunately, with Trump. If you want to help out those struggling areas, something like that is needed. I'd hope eventually the people we're talking about start to turn on the GOP, who have no real answers. This is an answer, at least. The problems we're seeing in these areas have been problems for a very long time, regardless of who is in power. Let's try something new and bold I think that can be an effective message. We'll see!
    PSD'S RESIDENT BERNIE BROTHER

  5. #7115
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManRam View Post
    Yes, that is my answer. You asked how his message will play, and that's his message. I think it will resonate with enough people to potentially win these states. It's a solution to the problem.

    I understand the uphill battle many of his policy wants face. That doesn't mean he shouldn't fight the good fight. Winning the Presidency would legitimatize much of his platform. A referendum. Like it did, unfortunately, with Trump. If you want to help out those struggling areas, something like that is needed. I'd hope eventually the people we're talking about start to turn on the GOP, who have no real answers. This is an answer, at least. The problems we're seeing in these areas have been problems for a very long time, regardless of who is in power. Let's try something new and bold I think that can be an effective message. We'll see!
    When you have someone willing to fight for it, it's amazing how things change. And I doubt it's too hard to convince people in Pennsylvania who flip a coin before turning their faucets on in case it might be flammable that fracking is bad.
    Prior to 11/1/19: if you were on my ignore list, I was sticking to ignoring you thanks to great advise.
    From 11/1/19 on: I will no longer be responding to comments back to people on my ignore list.
    _____

    Think long and hard about why you respond to nonsense. Please!


  6. #7116
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    Quote Originally Posted by nessythegreat View Post
    Your answer is the Green New Deal... That same deal that was destroyed in the Senate? Good luck with that bud.
    If the current Senate voted against it, then ipso facto it must be worthwhile.

  7. #7117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    If the current Senate voted against it, then ipso facto it must be worthwhile.
    They voted it down with a ridiculous version being put up that was designed to fail by Mitch McConnell. He managed to find time between not passing one bill and not passing another bill to bring up a bill that was designed to not pass. I don't know how he squeezed that into his productive schedule running the Senate.
    Prior to 11/1/19: if you were on my ignore list, I was sticking to ignoring you thanks to great advise.
    From 11/1/19 on: I will no longer be responding to comments back to people on my ignore list.
    _____

    Think long and hard about why you respond to nonsense. Please!


  8. #7118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    If the current Senate voted against it, then ipso facto it must be worthwhile.
    That wacky GOP Senate always shooting down promising new ideas.

    Could you rattle off quickly a couple of the Democratic Senators that voted in favor of the Green New Deal? The bill their party raised? That bill.


  9. #7119
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    Quote Originally Posted by WES445 View Post
    I would be careful about saying that unions have taken down business, I have seen those towns in middle and lower Illnios. In most cases, where it concern a major manufacturing business, those business went overseas where they didn't have to worry about benefits, environmental resrictions, or livable wages.

    I only say this because I hear republicans politicians blame unions for chasing our manufacturing sector to other countries.
    The issue is often that the business, when things are going well, agrees to ruinous benefits or rates and when things are going bad the unions are often unwilling to work with management to get through the thin times. I totally get the positives of unions in fighting the evils of business, but I've seen plenty of pig headed damaging behavior from management and union leadership.

    What chased manufacturing to other countries is not one thing. Mostly it was cheap labor (unions do increase labor rates), fewer regulations/fees/taxes, customers not caring about where something is made or quality of materials/assembly.

  10. #7120
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbroncos78087 View Post
    Unions are only responsible in so far as anyone who isn't willing to work for 7 cents a day is responsible for taking down a business.
    That makes me think you never worked in a managerial position.

  11. #7121
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    Quote Originally Posted by valade16 View Post
    It seems odd to me that many who are in favor of abolishing the minimum wage or who extol the free market and the ability to negotiate your own salary are fundamentally opposed when workers attempt to do just that.
    To be clear I have said none of those things.

  12. #7122
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnaround3 View Post
    That wacky GOP Senate always shooting down promising new ideas.

    Could you rattle off quickly a couple of the Democratic Senators that voted in favor of the Green New Deal? The bill their party raised? That bill.
    Where did I make a distinction between the Republicans and the Democrats in the Senate?

  13. #7123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    To be clear I have said none of those things.
    I wasn't saying you said any of that. That's why I quoted him instead of you.

  14. #7124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crovash View Post
    Where did I make a distinction between the Republicans and the Democrats in the Senate?
    I mean if your qualm is the inability of the Senate as a whole to take action on much of anything then, tremendous, we're in full agreement.

    Most choose to lay blame with one party or the other. On the GND "issue", though I think appointing it that title affords it more value than its actually worth, most (incorrectly, IMO) lay said blame at the foot of the GOP.


  15. #7125
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    Quote Originally Posted by turnaround3 View Post
    I mean if your qualm is the inability of the Senate as a whole to take action on much of anything then, tremendous, we're in full agreement.

    Most choose to lay blame with one party or the other. On the GND "issue", though I think appointing it that title affords it more value than its actually worth, most (incorrectly, IMO) lay said blame at the foot of the GOP.
    We are in agreement — maybe not full, but for the most part.

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